The Human Limit

[Sondrigal]

* Main Entry: 1mag·ic
* Pronunciation: \ˈma-jik\
* Function: noun
* Etymology: Middle English magique, from Middle French, from Latin magice, from Greek magikē, feminine of magikos Magian, magical, from magos magus, sorcerer, of Iranian origin; akin to Old Persian maguš sorcerer
* Date: 14th century

1 a : the use of means (as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural forces b : magic rites or incantations
2 a : an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source b : something that seems to cast a spell : enchantment
3 : the art of producing illusions by sleight of hand

For example, me turning you into a delicious demon sandwich for lunch. Who knows though. It might be possible to invent a machine that turns you into a sandwich. Do I believe this is possible? NO, HUMANS HAVE A LIMIT

[T3chno]

NO, HUMANS HAVE A LIMIT

Wha-? How would you know this? Or even what our limitations are?

[Rhekatou]

Prove it, por favor.

There is nothing that can make you go "back"; be it a substance or "magic".

Can you pick up and manipulate time? Is time a physical object?
No.
Can I do something with something that can't exist?
Going back in time, if you have heard of the paradox theory, would make it impossible by effecting events in the past, somehow having a ripple effect (which I don't believe in) on the future.
However, any effect would make the present different, with a thousand differences for one similarity.
So, you might have chosen to have cereal that day, and it might make you think not to travel that day, thus making it so you /weren't/ travelling, which would somehow mean that you /hadn't/ changed your mind, making a "black hole" in reality; so to speak. You would be having multiple things clash that cannot happen together, making an impossiblity.

[blue_tetris]

* Main Entry: 1mag·ic
* Pronunciation: \ˈma-jik\
* Function: noun
* Etymology: Middle English magique, from Middle French, from Latin magice, from Greek magikē, feminine of magikos Magian, magical, from magos magus, sorcerer, of Iranian origin; akin to Old Persian maguš sorcerer
* Date: 14th century

1 a : the use of means (as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural forces b : magic rites or incantations
2 a : an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source b : something that seems to cast a spell : enchantment
3 : the art of producing illusions by sleight of hand

For example, me turning you into a delicious demon sandwich for lunch. Who knows though. It might be possible to invent a machine that turns you into a sandwich. Do I believe this is possible? NO, HUMANS HAVE A LIMIT

After you learn how it happens, it becomes science--not magic. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from "magic" to the initiate. Go ahead and bring your cell phone to medieval Europe or take your computer to a Malagasy tribe. They'll think it's magic. It's not magic at all, they just don't understand it.

The moment we come to understand how to something "magically" became a sandwich, it's a scientific study. Not a magical event. It's safe to say "magic isn't real", because by the time we compose a list of things that are proven to be real, those things become non-magical. They become concrete and mundane, because we understand them.

[乳头的早餐谷物]

there is more reason to believe that time travel is possible than to believe that it is possible to make bad guys appear out of nowhere by saying a few words.

I agree. It is more possible that time travel could happen, but I think it is possible for it to not be possible. Considering how little we know, we can't just state that were going to be able to do it. Thats what this topic is about.

And yet, considering how little we know, you feel prepared to say we're never going to be able to do it?

[ZZ9]

Can you [...] manipulate time?

Yes. Both velocity and gravity cause time to slow down for the one moving/being attracted. (However, this won't let you go "back" in time.)

Is time a physical object?
No.
Can I do something with something that can't exist?
Going back in time, if you have heard of the paradox theory, would make it impossible by effecting events in the past, somehow having a ripple effect (which I don't believe in) on the future.
However, any effect would make the present different, with a thousand differences for one similarity.
So, you might have chosen to have cereal that day, and it might make you think not to travel that day, thus making it so you /weren't/ travelling, which would somehow mean that you /hadn't/ changed your mind, making a "black hole" in reality; so to speak. You would be having multiple things clash that cannot happen together, making an impossiblity.

Except if the universe subscribes to the Novikov self-consistency principle, in which case the things you do when you travel back in time already happened, and so there is no possibility of paradoxes. (If you want to go back in time and kill your grandparents, you will never succeed, since your grandparents survived and gave birth to you.)

To answer the original question, I believe there is some limit to technological progress. However, that limit will probably not be reached within 1000 years from now, and when it is, it would be reached by something we probably wouldn't recognize as human.

[blue_tetris]

The technological limit will almost certainly involve robots that can create better robots that can create even better robots. Until one robot creates a robot so much better that the robot is GOD AND THAT ROBOT CREATES/CREATED THE UNIVERSE IN A TIMELOOP.

[otters]

Can you [...] manipulate time?

Yes. Both velocity and gravity cause time to slow down for the one moving/being attracted. (However, this won't let you go "back" in time.)

Unless, theoretically, faster than light travel *does* allow that to happen, but that's another discussion entirely.

Is time a physical object?
No.
Can I do something with something that can't exist?

Huh. I assume you don't feel emotion, either. You can't pick it up and manipulate it, right? So it doesn't exist? Hell, same thing goes for Poland - you can't pick that up and manipulate it either. So I suppose most foreign countries are nonexistent, too.

[Sondrigal]

I'm not saying I know theres a limit. I am saying YOU can't blatantly state we have no limit because there MIGHT be one.

[T3chno]

I'm not saying I know theres a limit.

For example, me turning you into a delicious demon sandwich for lunch...NO, HUMANS HAVE A LIMIT

o_o

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

Except if the universe subscribes to the Novikov self-consistency principle, in which case the things you do when you travel back in time already happened, and so there is no possibility of paradoxes. (If you want to go back in time and kill your grandparents, you will never succeed, since your grandparents survived and gave birth to you.)

What are your thoughts on the insight provided by the documentary Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, namely that time is constantly branching with each event that might go one of multiple ways? I was intrigued by the historical account of that one hot asian chick coming back from a different future than that one other dude, where that dude got totally killed, but he was clearly not totally killed from the future he came from cuz he was able to come from it, necessitating that he be alive in the first place.

[blue_tetris]

Except if the universe subscribes to the Novikov self-consistency principle, in which case the things you do when you travel back in time already happened, and so there is no possibility of paradoxes. (If you want to go back in time and kill your grandparents, you will never succeed, since your grandparents survived and gave birth to you.)

What are your thoughts on the insight provided by the documentary Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, namely that time is constantly branching with each event that might go one of multiple ways? I was intrigued by the historical account of that one hot asian chick coming back from a different future than that one other dude, where that dude got totally killed, but he was clearly not totally killed from the future he came from cuz he was able to come from it, necessitating that he be alive in the first place.

The universe most likely subscribes to the Sarah Connor Myriad Realities principle, not the Novikov Self-Consistency Principle or Eternalism and the Spacetimeworm corrolary.

[Brocerius]

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from "magic"

In my head, Leonard Nimoy said that, thanks to Civilization IV.

About time travel though - it is very unlikely that we will ever be able to travel back in time past the point at which we discover time travel - travelling back in time beyond that point would likely be travelling to a parallel universe, or alternate reality.

Also, Alpha Centuri here we come!

[jean-luc]

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from "magic"

In my head, Leonard Nimoy said that, thanks to Civilization IV.

About time travel though - it is very unlikely that we will ever be able to travel back in time past the point at which we discover time travel - travelling back in time beyond that point would likely be travelling to a parallel universe, or alternate reality.

Also, Alpha Centuri here we come!

There's a physicist, unfortunately I canot recall his name, who is currently working on a time travel mechanism. If it works, it will have this exact limitation - the machine would only be able to transport matter back as far as it had existed.

Note that there are some reasons the thing he's working on may never work, but his work is nonetheless very interesting and has the most potential of any time travel work currently in progress.

[SlappyMcGee]

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from "magic"

In my head, Leonard Nimoy said that, thanks to Civilization IV.

About time travel though - it is very unlikely that we will ever be able to travel back in time past the point at which we discover time travel - travelling back in time beyond that point would likely be travelling to a parallel universe, or alternate reality.

Also, Alpha Centuri here we come!

There's a physicist, unfortunately I canot recall his name, who is currently working on a time travel mechanism. If it works, it will have this exact limitation - the machine would only be able to transport matter back as far as it had existed.

Note that there are some reasons the thing he's working on may never work, but his work is nonetheless very interesting and has the most potential of any time travel work currently in progress.

Is that Ronald Mallett?

[jean-luc]

In my head, Leonard Nimoy said that, thanks to Civilization IV.

About time travel though - it is very unlikely that we will ever be able to travel back in time past the point at which we discover time travel - travelling back in time beyond that point would likely be travelling to a parallel universe, or alternate reality.

Also, Alpha Centuri here we come!

There's a physicist, unfortunately I canot recall his name, who is currently working on a time travel mechanism. If it works, it will have this exact limitation - the machine would only be able to transport matter back as far as it had existed.

Note that there are some reasons the thing he's working on may never work, but his work is nonetheless very interesting and has the most potential of any time travel work currently in progress.

Is that Ronald Mallett?

Yes indeed, that's the guy.

[scythe]

About time travel though - it is very unlikely that we will ever be able to travel back in time past the point at which we discover time travel - travelling back in time beyond that point would likely be travelling to a parallel universe, or alternate reality.

Plus, if we were ever to attain that ability, we'd know about it already.

[spoof]

Which will come first:

We destroy ourselves

We come up with how to time travel

The best ROBOT ever creates/created another/our universe IN A TIMELOOP
(ps trick question)


Activate debate explosion.

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

About time travel though - it is very unlikely that we will ever be able to travel back in time past the point at which we discover time travel - travelling back in time beyond that point would likely be travelling to a parallel universe, or alternate reality.

Plus, if we were ever to attain that ability, we'd know about it already.

How do you know that time travel will be regulated well enough throughout the period where people might be interested in traveling back as far, thereby perfectly establishing the setting for a futuristic video game?

[SlappyMcGee]

Except if the universe subscribes to the Novikov self-consistency principle, in which case the things you do when you travel back in time already happened, and so there is no possibility of paradoxes. (If you want to go back in time and kill your grandparents, you will never succeed, since your grandparents survived and gave birth to you.)

What are your thoughts on the insight provided by the documentary Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, namely that time is constantly branching with each event that might go one of multiple ways? I was intrigued by the historical account of that one hot asian chick coming back from a different future than that one other dude, where that dude got totally killed, but he was clearly not totally killed from the future he came from cuz he was able to come from it, necessitating that he be alive in the first place.

Incidentally, I watched that entire series and I still don't understand the last episode. SUMMER GLAU WAS HUMAN ALL ALONG? Time travel doesn't work.

[Tanner]

I am prepared to accept the possibility of of time travel but there is no way in hell that Summer Glau is human.

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

What are your thoughts on the insight provided by the documentary Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, namely that time is constantly branching with each event that might go one of multiple ways? I was intrigued by the historical account of that one hot asian chick coming back from a different future than that one other dude, where that dude got totally killed, but he was clearly not totally killed from the future he came from cuz he was able to come from it, necessitating that he be alive in the first place.

Incidentally, I watched that entire series and I still don't understand the last episode. SUMMER GLAU WAS HUMAN ALL ALONG? Time travel doesn't work.

The realization that the series was a complete waste of my time hit around the early middle of season 2, and the realization that no future episodes could possibly make up for the stupidity already introduced hit around the middlish-end of the same season. Morbid curiosity kept me watching through the second season finale. After I got the soundtrack and saw Terminator 4 in theaters, I stopped caring about the entire franchise.

But anyhow, seeing as how I started pulling this trick near the middle of season one, I bet you I can predict exactly what the writers were going with.
Cameron was probably a human that John started relating to, and she started helping him break out of his antisocial behavior. She was captured, her likeness was used for the 800's, and she almost manages to assassinate John. In another shameless and nonsensical glorification of misplaced human emotion, John keeps her alive but reprograms her before sending her back to help himself.
Also, the current John Connor (the one who just traveled forward) is the future John Connor; he's forced to grow up even faster, but he makes a name for himself in short order. One of his reasons for granting audiences so infrequently is the fact that he looks like a kid.
There, that's 75% of season three for you.

(EDIT: lol, "back to the future")

[SlappyMcGee]

What are your thoughts on the insight provided by the documentary Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, namely that time is constantly branching with each event that might go one of multiple ways? I was intrigued by the historical account of that one hot asian chick coming back from a different future than that one other dude, where that dude got totally killed, but he was clearly not totally killed from the future he came from cuz he was able to come from it, necessitating that he be alive in the first place.

Incidentally, I watched that entire series and I still don't understand the last episode. SUMMER GLAU WAS HUMAN ALL ALONG? Time travel doesn't work.

The realization that the series was a complete waste of my time hit around the early middle of season 2, and the realization that no future episodes could possibly make up for the stupidity already introduced hit around the middlish-end of the same season. Morbid curiosity kept me watching through the second season finale. After I got the soundtrack and saw Terminator 4 in theaters, I stopped caring about the entire franchise.

But anyhow, seeing as how I started pulling this trick near the middle of season one, I bet you I can predict exactly what the writers were going with.
Cameron was probably a human that John started relating to, and she started helping him break out of his antisocial behavior. She was captured, her likeness was used for the 800's, and she almost manages to assassinate John. In another shameless and nonsensical glorification of misplaced human emotion, John keeps her alive but reprograms her before sending her back to help himself.
Also, the current John Connor (the one who just traveled forward) is the future John Connor; he's forced to grow up even faster, but he makes a name for himself in short order. One of his reasons for granting audiences so infrequently is the fact that he looks like a kid.
There, that's 75% of season three for you.

(EDIT: lol, "back to the future")

Bro, I spent two months of my life on the TSCC messageboards campaigning to bring this show back so that I could understand what happened at the end of season two. (And also, because episode titles were infrequently Bruce Springsteen messages.)

But now I am at peace.