NUMACON (Official discussion/bitch thread!)

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Postby zoasBE » 2015.01.15 (12:20)

OneSevenNine wrote:perhaps a "gauntlet" competition, i.e. long, linear, precise, difficult. hard to make those engaging and not just frustrating. last contest like that i remember was like 5 years ago and i lost to lord_day and i don't know why i remember that but i think it was a good contest

Oh, what's exactly a 'gauntlet' map? Because I saw that term at times describing some maps and never know what exactly means or how it is, I remember that I even googled it once a time and nothing described it neither. Could you 179, explain to me what exactly is and what means that term?

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Postby aids » 2015.01.15 (19:08)

zoasBE wrote:
OneSevenNine wrote:perhaps a "gauntlet" competition, i.e. long, linear, precise, difficult. hard to make those engaging and not just frustrating. last contest like that i remember was like 5 years ago and i lost to lord_day and i don't know why i remember that but i think it was a good contest

Oh, what's exactly a 'gauntlet' map? Because I saw that term at times describing some maps and never know what exactly means or how it is, I remember that I even googled it once a time and nothing described it neither. Could you 179, explain to me what exactly is and what means that term?


Corpse Pose is an example of a gauntlet map. Hellishly difficult, chocked full of enemies, and yet still very enjoyable. If we had a gauntlet NUMACon, I would also award the best demos for the maps too. It will be tricky for most people to balance ball-crushingly hard with orgasm-inducing, but I would like to see people try. Added.
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Postby DraxoBox » 2015.01.16 (12:55)

I support the Gauntlet idea. Perhaps I would finally be able to make top 5.
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Postby aids » 2015.02.12 (21:44)

DraxoBox wrote:I support the Gauntlet idea. Perhaps I would finally be able to make top 5.


I think I've decided on Gauntlet for the April NUMACon. But remember, don't submit it before April 1st or else it won't count. :)

In other ideas, would we like an NReality contest?
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Postby aids » 2015.03.21 (22:34)

METAMORPH CRITIQUES


As soon as they're finished the critiques will be posted here. Thanks in advance for your patience. :3

Aidiera's Comments

All these maps have been rated out of 10 on how well (I think) you've used the objects. :3

0th: http://www.nmaps.net/234809 >>> Inhalable Drug - PALEMOON
1st: http://www.nmaps.net/234916 >>> Zig - lifdoff
2nd: http://www.nmaps.net/235062 >>> Tattoo - macrohenry
3rd: http://www.nmaps.net/235031 >>> Madres - the23
4th: http://www.nmaps.net/234812 >>> Cape Coral - blacklef
5th: http://www.nmaps.net/234746 >>> Haunted_Bamboo - PALEMOON
6th: http://www.nmaps.net/234764 >>> Rival Domain - Yahoozy

http://www.nmaps.net/234696 >>> Excellent layout, especially the drone paths. 8/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234730 >>> A nice challenge, but a bit too tricky for the average player. 6/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234741 >>> Great use of the lasers, but they can be finnicky. 6/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234746 >>> Looks awesome. Great use of the objects. 9/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234748 >>> The tileset clashes a bit with the drone paths. 5/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234752 >>> Well-made considering the difficulty. 7/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234758 >>> A little bit too much like the original. 4/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234760 >>> Lengthy, especially the middle section. 5/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234761 >>> It's good except for the exit location. 6/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234764 >>> I like how you used the bounceblocks and the lasers. 8/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234777 >>> Cool design, man. Good use of drones. 5/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234778 >>> Very hard, and rather cluttered. 4/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234782 >>> I love how the rockets are used. 8/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234800 >>> Some of the gold isn't worth it, but it looks magnificent. 7/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234804 >>> Stylish, but it's a tough one. 6/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234808 >>> The left side is good, but the right guass section is a bit iffy. 5/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234809 >>> Everything about this is stellar. 10/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234812 >>> The squeeze is to die for, as is the gold. 9/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234815 >>> Meh. 0/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234817 >>> It's hard to move around without more tiles. 5/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234819 >>> Classic pawz. I think opening up the bottom part would be helpful. 6/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234823 >>> The left side was much harder than the right one. 6/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234834 >>> Grrr, getting to the right side is waaay tough. 5/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234856 >>> I would have made the guasses less powerful. 6/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234859 >>> Making it a race was a nice surprise. 6/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234865 >>> Looks good and plays good. 7/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234866 >>> A prettier version of the original. 5/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234886 >>> The layout could use some tweaking. 5/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234913 >>> Gorgeous tiles, but it'll take some practice to enjoy. 6/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234916 >>> Retiled like a champ. 10/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234921 >>> The design here is fantastic. Good use of enemies. 7/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234934 >>> Looks good but is very similar to the original. 4/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234935 >>> I love the layout, but seven chasers is super hard. 5/10
http://www.nmaps.net/234972 >>> The flow is impeccable. 8/10
http://www.nmaps.net/235006 >>> You can make a jumper out of anything, huh? 5/10
http://www.nmaps.net/235019 >>> I think the rockets overpower the map. 5/10
http://www.nmaps.net/235031 >>> The tileset and the drones work together so well. 9/10
http://www.nmaps.net/235037 >>> Nifty tricks all over this map. 8/10
http://www.nmaps.net/235054 >>> The lasers work well with the tiles. 7/10
http://www.nmaps.net/235058 >>> I wish it were easier to navigate. 7/10
http://www.nmaps.net/235062 >>> Fantastic. 10/10
http://www.nmaps.net/235066 >>> It's nice to see the drones attack you. 6/10
http://www.nmaps.net/235074 >>> Looks pretty but the gameplay was lacking. 5/10


Onesevennine's Comments

179'S GOING-MAD-WITH-POWER-JUDGING-SOMETHING-FOR-THE-FIRST-TIME COMMENTS

1: http://www.nmaps.net/234804 -- The Naif Ninja and the Big Blue Ballsey Bullies - macrohenry & blue_rocks
2: http://www.nmaps.net/234913 -- winter - Invalid
3: http://www.nmaps.net/235031 -- Madres - the23
4: http://www.nmaps.net/235054 -- Hidden With a Brick Wall - RandomDigits
5: http://www.nmaps.net/234886 -- Colonades of the Waterfront Park - origami_alligator
6: http://www.nmaps.net/234752 -- radio brooklyn - Sunset
7: http://www.nmaps.net/234865 -- Heron's Formula - lifdoff

http://www.nmaps.net/234696 - i like that attention was paid to the pathing of the drones but they're so spread out and you have so much easy mobility that they really barely affect gameplay
http://www.nmaps.net/234730 - kind of wish it had a little more to do with the object set given - interesting parts and well-tuned jumps, mostly from the tiles alone
http://www.nmaps.net/234746 - super good use of the gauss's positions to force interesting jumps. stop making tilesets that look this good, it reminds me of all my neverending human failures
http://www.nmaps.net/234748 - so much space to maneuver in that the drones don't really threaten much. plays rather lethargic.
http://www.nmaps.net/234752 - high-octane! i cannot decide whether or not some of this gold is too clever + tricky or just clever + tricky enough but it is definitely the most inventive entry for this map and oozing sunset cool(tm) overall
http://www.nmaps.net/234758 - claustrophoby twitchy tunnels, chyeah. that last jump to the other side of the map makes my blood pressure spike though
http://www.nmaps.net/234760 - a super-stylish mine jumper for something with so few mines
http://www.nmaps.net/234761 - getting that gold behind the door is super tedious - and the tileset is kind of overwrought tbh
http://www.nmaps.net/234764 - can i even express the sheer excitement i feel when upon seeing that bounceblock mechanic used
http://www.nmaps.net/234777 - this feels rather haphazard and unplanned, a "wait patiently for the drone in your way to move" kind of deal with not much other strategy needed
http://www.nmaps.net/234778 - nice total destruction of the original's form, but getting that much gold when it isn't lined up for you gets to be rather tedious
http://www.nmaps.net/234782 - gave those rockets a ton of room to breathe, and it works really well even if it plays a bit vanilla for a rocket map
http://www.nmaps.net/234800 - doin' a comparative lot with a comparative little, i dig
http://www.nmaps.net/234804 - ohhhhh man those tunnels/pathing for the zap drones. that is cool and good as hell. it is not too hard to do but it is very tricky to do well and very addictive in that respect. i am definitely Into This. yes
http://www.nmaps.net/234808 - pleasant but by the numbers. mine tunnel was a nice opening but past that i can't think of a lot to say
http://www.nmaps.net/234809 - a veritable oddyssey. possibly too much, even, i can't really get myself to finish it
http://www.nmaps.net/234812 - intolerably cool. fits perfectly onto the tileset. made navigating an empty tileset interesting without it being a jumper
http://www.nmaps.net/234815 - look, ninja. what do you see? I see a land where there is so much empty space and gold that nothing much will likely happen. at last, the war is over. our people can live here in peace
http://www.nmaps.net/234817 - one of the better slippery trip hazard retiles. tons of mobility, open enough to run around in and enjoyable in that respect (and feasible to actually get an AGD and have fun with it)
http://www.nmaps.net/234819 - the bounceblocks and the tileset do not seem to get along very well, on the left side especially. i like the shape and general view of the tiles but they play at odds with the rest of the map
http://www.nmaps.net/234823 - nice take on this level. feels super natural and sleek
http://www.nmaps.net/234834 - jumps on the right side are really nice, kind of predictable choices otherwise though
http://www.nmaps.net/234856 - functions well as a map, looks aight, tho the top part with three gausses could've been arranged better
http://www.nmaps.net/234859 - for a race, it plays really stilted: flow is either predictable or awkward and forced. aesthetic of the tiles is pretty unfocused
http://www.nmaps.net/234865 - very clever and sleek use of a simple motif in the tiles to completely rearrange the focus of the original map - and it's pulled off seamlessly (i don't really like the 'doesn't even look like a retile' comment in almost every case i've heard it, but i guess it applies here for better or for worse). admittedly, a few of the jumps get reeeeally close to crossing the line between "bullshit needlessly frustrating " and "tricky."
http://www.nmaps.net/234866 - looks spiffy but it really doesn't do a whole lot that the original didn't either - plays almost exactly the same in essence except easier to get the gold on the left
http://www.nmaps.net/234886 - i was really hoping someone would use this map like this! you can get a ton of mileage out of giving lasers a huge area to be able to come down on, and you've executed that very very well here. i might disagree with some of the particulars of the design, like how hard it is to get from one side to the other, but i can't really complain overall
http://www.nmaps.net/234913 - i see you took the "regarding tiles, when in doubt, add trees" approach. but this did a really fantastic thing to a map that almost everyone else tried to make really claustrophobic, with far less engaging results. tons of possible paths and routing options, just the right amount of trickiness, hella atmospheric, yes good
http://www.nmaps.net/234916 - gonna agree with apse's comment that rockets don't lend themselves well to this. i mean, i can beat it, but it feels more trial and error than strategy
http://www.nmaps.net/234921 - not sure it was a good idea to set the map up like that, with so many paths leading directly towards the laser given all the other things coming atcha. the danger level in this map is very lopsided from place to place
http://www.nmaps.net/234934 - love what you did with jumping thru the stuck drones but if you think i'm gonna get that gold buddy you got another think coming
http://www.nmaps.net/234935 - this is a really cool way to arrange a map, even if sometimes the drones don't behave
http://www.nmaps.net/234972 - not positive of the merits of this tileset in the way it works as a race
http://www.nmaps.net/235006 - it's a nice jumper, and i like how you use the drones to make it a bit more spicy, but it wasn't quite enough flavor
http://www.nmaps.net/235019 - like the way you went about isolating the rockets but i'm not sure you did quite enough - and that backtracking from the exit switch is frankly quite nasty
http://www.nmaps.net/235031 - there is no way in hell that gold in the top left is worth it but i don't care because getting it is a true thrill and this tileset is absotively gorgeous
http://www.nmaps.net/235037 - a few interesting timed jumps with the oscillating drones but not enough substance in it overall
http://www.nmaps.net/235054 - unfffff good. great tileset, nice nooks and crannies, very clever arrangement on the bottom to allow the laser on the left to put pressure at you on all times - and also to force you to take some weird paths to get all the gold. very, very well thought out
http://www.nmaps.net/235058 - looks pretty, but there's not a lot to it - jumps aren't terribly unique and not a lot of the map was used
http://www.nmaps.net/235062 - nice pathing for the drones, wasn't expecting that. felt kind of empty of legitimate challenge or threat otherwise though
http://www.nmaps.net/235066 - ey, someone actually used the drones in this map in a cool way instead of letting them faff about down there in a loop! love the pressure of having to get to the gold area fast, and the way the tileset there is arranged is super appropriate for the rocket, even if that part is a bit rough once the drones get in
http://www.nmaps.net/235074 - atmospheric, nice tiles, doesn't really have enough meat to it gameplaywise short one or two jumps that took me a second to think about


cheez's Top Five

1. http://www.nmaps.net/234746 - Haunted_Bamboo - PALEMOON
2. http://www.nmaps.net/234696 - Tomb Raider - macrohenry
3. http://www.nmaps.net/234812 - Cape Coral - blacklef
4. http://www.nmaps.net/235066 - Don't Skip the Warning Signs - RandomDigits
5. http://www.nmaps.net/234817 - Sunface - Losttortuga


(PS: while you're here, take a second to vote in the poll or suggest a NUMACon theme.)
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Postby Mohit_Ghune » 2015.04.07 (16:01)

Hey Aidi, can I be a judge for the next NUMAcon? I can judge maps for their tileset, gameplay and object placements. :)
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Postby aids » 2015.04.07 (16:48)

Mohit_Ghune wrote:Hey Aidi, can I be a judge for the next NUMAcon? I can judge maps for their tileset, gameplay and object placements. :)


I'll add you to the "shortlist" meaning I don't know how many judges I need, but if I need one you're first up.
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Postby Mohit_Ghune » 2015.04.08 (08:10)

▲▪►▪▼◄▲ wrote:but if I need one you're first up.

Thanks man!
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Postby lifdoff » 2015.05.02 (12:11)

Ok, so Gaunt is done.

How is the judging going to work? Didn't you say something about an open poll Aidiera? Or is it conventional judging and am I misremembering?
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Postby aids » 2015.05.02 (21:53)

lifdoff wrote:Ok, so Gaunt is done.

How is the judging going to work? Didn't you say something about an open poll Aidiera? Or is it conventional judging and am I misremembering?


Judging is open, yes. I just need to make the polling thread look pretty.

https://forum.droni.es/viewtopic.php?p=174220#p174220
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Postby aids » 2015.07.15 (23:25)

GAUNT CRITIQUES


So, because this NUMACon had an open poll, you can see the results here.

Aidiera's Comments

Better late than never, I hope.

m.A.A.d city >> Not really fitting, just a normal anco map.
Lich's Maze >> Suuuuuper cluttered. It looks like a Yahoozy map but doesn't play like one.
concentricity >> Pretty tiles, but strongly disliked the gameplay. Needed better enemies.
forbidden sun >> I really love the design, but there's too much gold.
museum prisoner >> Cool idea which you perfected in a later map.
Parts of It >> Surprisingly fun map. Well-done.
BS117 >> The layout is phenomenally crafty.
Viagra >> Seems really lazy. Sorry.
friend or faux >> I didn't like the chaingun much, but the drones are cool.
Carnival Into Space >> I don't like any of the objects.
gatlopp >> Unfun and cramped.
the cowboy song >> Much like a cowboy, I am chaffed by this.
Maseru >> Classically Yahoozy vibez.
gaunt old bone bucket >> Clunky like a past-its-prime Chevy.
(0:0:6) Raven >> Superfluous and boring.
127-1 Around the house >> Tedious, but not in the good sense.
I wanna be the Blacklef >> It could use some touching up.
SpatterSpew >> Slapped together like a late science project.
Solaris >> It started off good, but the chaingun got tiresome.
studded dragon >> Meandering around like a timid lake, I felt purposeless.

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Postby aids » 2015.08.03 (04:00)

SWERVE CRITIQUES


Aidiera's comments

Have some comments, yo.

partially underground space rangers - Addicted_Ancestor ::: The clashing enemies are kind of annoying, but I like the design.
Swerve - Aidiera ::: I'm a big fan of the gold patterns, and the drones are used pretty well.
It's mostly all your fault - DaggaFork ::: Lotsa drones ya got there. I think this could have been cool if the jumps were easier.
bygone era - Invalid ::: This doesn't feel complete to me.
debris - Invalid ::: I like the concept, but more tiles would be great.
Quivering Like Seaweed - lifdoff ::: I'm sorry, but I don't like this at all.
The Blueprint - lifdoff ::: I wish your maps were easier. :(
The Fourth Dimension - macrohenry ::: I can see some Yahoozy-esque parts of this map, but I didn't like the enemy choices.
UL963 - Onesevennine ::: Confusing at first, but wow was it good.
Garden Trip - Ors_II ::: Nifty, but not really that fun.
Where Once Was Greatness - script ::: I rescind my other comment. This map is perfection.
Secrets of the Lost Tomb - tiki854 ::: The rocket part was odd, but the lasers were nice.
evrews - woutery ::: I didn't like how the rocket and laser worked against each other, but the gauss part is good.

0th - Where Once Was Greatness
1st - UL963
2nd - The Fourth Dimension
3rd - Blueprint



blacklef's comments

Swerve NUMAcon - notes by Blacklef

criteria :
gameplay 1-10
aesthetics 1-10
swerve parameter* 1-10
commentary

Where Once Was Greatness by Script
gameplay 7
aesthetics 8
swerve param. 5
"multi-route, cool looking, curves add flow to this and that is all they do"

bygone era by Invalid
gameplay 6
aesthetics 7
swerve param. 5
"good use of propelling properties of curves, could include more"

debris by Invalid
gameplay 8
aesthetics 8
swerve param. 9
"I like that this map focus only on the 4-tiles, drones create nice grid, tricky and not very forgiving"

partially underground space rangers by Addicted_Ancestor
gameplay 5
aesthetics 4
swerve param. 5
"too generic, definitely not eye pleasing, but diving in these shafts is always fun thing to do"

Swerve by Aidiera
gameplay 8
aesthetics 7
swerve param.7
"Could have see that coming. High level composition, that feels like deja vu"

UL963 by Onesevennine
gameplay 7
aesthetics 7
swerve param. 8
"a bit too harsh, but good overall"

Garden Trip by Ors_II
gameplay 7?
aesthetics 5
swerve param. 5
"I dont know how to judge this"

Blueprint by lifdoff
gameplay 8
aesthetics 7
swerve param. 7
"curve propelling which I dig"

The Fourth Dimension by Macrohenry
gameplay 8
aesthetics 9
swerve param. 7
"full package, I was a bit lost though"

Quivering Like Seaweed by lifdoff
gameplay 6
aesthetics 6
swerve param. 5
"nothing interesting going on here"

Secrets of the Lost Tomb by tiki854
gameplay 6
aesthetics 7
swerve param. 6
"nice voyage, but that rocket launcher is really bad"

It's mostly almost all your fault by DaggaFork
gameplay 8
aesthetics 8
swerve param. 8
"chaotic but enjoyable"

evrews by woutery
gameplay 5
aesthetics 6
swerve param. 4
"my mind and this map doesnt get along, just like this laser and rocket"

Blacklef's Top 5
0th debris by Invalid
1st Swerve by Aidiera
2nd The Fourth Dimension by macrohenry
3rd UL963 by Onesevennine
4th It's mostly almost all your fault by DaggaFork

* swerve parameter - describes how well a map fits into NUMAcon theme



lifdoff's comments

1. bygone era – Invalid
2. The Fourth Dimension – macrohenry
3. Swerve – Aidiera
4. Where Once Was Greatness - script
5. UL963 – Onesevennine
6. partially underground space rangers – Addicted_Ancestor
7. Garden Trip – Ors_II
8. debris - Invalid

bygone era – Invalid
You are an amazing mapper in terms of how you use open space. This map is simple, utilises few objects, but it doesn't need more. It's atmospheric, it's challenging and it keeps you coming back for more. There were many good to great submissions for Swerve, but this is the only one that I would call flawless.
5/5

The Fourth Dimension - macrohenry
Many maps that prominently use 4-tiles are awkward to move on. Not this one. The tiles don't only look awesome, but the flow through them is terrific. Add some superb gold-placement and some stylish drones and you have a winner right here. One thing I wasn't too fond of were the gausses – they weren't really obstacles at all and didn't pose much of a challenge. Nothing to criticise otherwise.
4.5/5

Swerve - Aidiera
You've always been good with 4-tiles, and this map is no exception. I love the ribbon aesthetic, and drones are a great enemy here, with their surface-follow mode being used to nigh-perfection. I'm not a big fan of the rocket in the lower left feels a little ouf of place and the seeker drone is a little annoying, but those are minor niggles. Great map.
4.5/5

Where Once Was Greatness - script
You have a way of taking simple aesthetical patterns and using them to their maximum potential, and you did that here once again. I commend you for being able to fit quite a few different types of enemies into the map while still maintaining a cohesive feel. One thing that I don't like is how this map doesn't really force you to go out of your way to get gold, there's one basic route here, and, sans little flourishes, it's pretty much identical whether you AGD or speedrun.
4/5

UL963 - Onesevennine
Normally, I really love your maps and how they evoke a sense of ordered chaos. This one, however, feels a little too random and thrown-together – basically I'm missing the order in the chaos. There's some really cool ideas here – the gold is genius, the laser is very well placed and the trapdoor switch is a lot of fun to get – but it just doesn't really work together as a map in my opinion. Not bad, and certainly quite creative, but you can do a lot better.
3/5

Partially underground space rangers - Addicted_Ancestor
I really like how this gets progressively harder the longer you take due to some superb drone timing. That said, I think that one chaingung would have been enough would have made this a lot more enjoyable. Aside from that, the gameplay was okay, but nothing super special. I do like how the normal and expected 4-tile-structure was broken a couple of times, that worked quite well.
3/5

Garden Trip – Ors_II
The concept is cool, but the execution feels lacking. Especially the bottom left is way too finicky for my tastes, and once the novelty factor has worn off, there's nothing really here that makes me want to play this like is the case with other submissions. I think that something very good could be done with this concept, but this isn't it.
2.5/5

debris – Invalid
This looks cool, and that's about it. The jumps are annoying, not rewarding, and speedrunning is a matter of two minutes. While I like what you were going for, this missed the mark pretty spectacularly.
1.5/5



Mohit's top five

1st - Quivering Like Seaweed by lifdoff & The Fourth Dimension by macrohenry:
These two maps put me in a serious dilemma. Both are really awesome. Aesthetically pleasing. Gameplay was really good. I liked the locked doors usage.

3rd - Swerve by Aidera:
The drones were pretty good. Combination of gold and curved tiles was quite awesome. Not very aesthetically pleasing to my eyes, though.

4th - Where Once Was Greatness by script:
Had a race-ish feel to it. Enemies were apt. Gold placement was good. Use of curved tiles was decent as well. Sadly, it felt quite empty.

5th - Garden Trip by Ors_II:
There was nothing much to this map. Gold couldn't be taken. Not a lot of curvy tiles. The gauss was pretty useless. Use of NReality features was really cool.

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Postby lifdoff » 2015.08.04 (09:48)

Did I... did I seriously just judge the first page of search results and completely miss the rest? Uh-oh.

tiki, woutery, Dagga, I humbly apologise.

Grats to macro for winning. You deserve it.
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Postby Woutery » 2015.09.14 (08:14)

Not necessarily an idea for a Numacon, but i'd like to see a collab project where you start off with a base map, one person edits it, then another person edits the edit, and the chain goes on. I bet it has been done before but it's a cool idea to try.


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