Tool-Assisted Highscores/Speedruns

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Postby EddyMataGallos » 2016.07.19 (23:37)

That's very handy jp thanks for sharing.
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Impressive flag by ska -|- N2High - My software for N2.0 -|- Awesome sig by Hendor
About me & Stats (Spoiler)

Hi, im Eddy, a Spanish highscorer and current Grandmaster of N. I've been playing N since 2006, I beat it on the 8th September 2008, and NReality later too. Started intermittently highscoring Metanet in 2010, although serious highscoring started in late 2011.

Current Stats
• Completed N on 8th Sept. 2008
• Completed NReality on 24th Dec. 2010
0th Place on Metanet 0th Rankings with 443 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Top20 Rankings with 599 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Top10 Rankings with 599 Scores.
1st Place on Metanet Top5 Rankings with 595 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Level 0th Rankings with 361 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Episode 0th Rankings with 82 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Total Level Score: 72142.900 (20:02:22.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Episode Score: 35669.900 (09:54:29.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Point Rankings with 11669 Points.
0th Place in NReality 0th Rankings with 235 0ths.
0th Place for a grand total of 676 Total 0ths.
• Winner of some contests (BUST, 100, 9000, Bounty Hunters, SOAST) and of some rounds of some contests (ROPP, NErratic, Red Ball, NReality Team Arena)

{Info as of 01/Feb/2015} The info may be outdated.

Achievements
• 6th highscorer to reach 100 Metanet 0ths
• 4th highscorer to reach 200 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 300 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 400 Metanet 0ths
• 8th ever Grandmaster
• 2nd* highscorer to reach 599 top-20 Scores
• 1st highscorer to reach 599 top-10 Scores
• 10th highscorer to reach 70k Level Score
• 5th highscorer to reach 71k Level Score
• 2nd highscorer to reach 71.5k Level Score
• 1st highscorer to reach 72k Level Score

Relevant Dates
• First 0th: 31-3 on 04/Oct/10
• Reached 100 Metanet 0ths on 25/Feb/12
• Reached 200 Metanet 0ths on 30/Sep/12
• Reached 300 Metanet 0ths on 16/Mar/13
• Reached 400 Metanet 0ths on 04/Sept/14
• Reached highest amount of 0ths on Jan/2013
• Became the Grandmaster on 12/Apr/2012
• Reached 70k Level Score on 25/Dec/11
• Reached 71k Level Score on 13/Jan/11
• Reached 71.5k Level Score on 01/Aug/12
• Reached 72k Level Score on 04/Jul/14
• Completed N 1.4 on 08/Sept/08
• Completed NReality on 24/Dec/10
• Reached 100 NReality 0ths on Oct/2011
• Reached 200 NReality 0ths on Nov/2011
• Reached 100 Top-20 Scores on Aug/10
• Reached 200 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 300 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 400 Top-20 Scores on Dec/11
• Reached 500 Top-20 Scores on Jan/12
• Reached 599 Top-20 Scores on 04/Apr/12
• Reached 599 Top-10 Scores on 18/Nov/12

Deds & Images (Spoiler)

Thanks to ska for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to BluePretzel for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to da_guru for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this full episode to me!: 00-0 00-100-2 00-3 00-4
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this mappack to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to VODKALOVER for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to runningninja for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to trance for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to llabesab for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to the23 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Traveleravi for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to 123leonidas321 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to the23 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Uniden for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Uniden for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Ors_II for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Sunset for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Leonhard for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Daggafork for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to VODKALOVER for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to RandomDigits/SpartaX18 for dedicating this map to me
Sorry if Im missing any ded.

Image
ImageThanks to leo.
Image


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Postby zapkt » 2016.07.21 (10:17)

Hmm this is interesting. We should see with Unreality, who has a lot of experience with modifying the game, if it would be possible to add a function in NReality (or a modified version of N dedicated to producing MBD runs) were you could automatically compute some stuff. For instance, having a button which would automatically produce the different possible runs for the next frame, and test which one lead to death, would be an interesting first step.

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Postby ska » 2016.07.23 (16:17)

zapkt wrote:Hmm this is interesting. We should see with Unreality, who has a lot of experience with modifying the game, if it would be possible to add a function in NReality (or a modified version of N dedicated to producing MBD runs) were you could automatically compute some stuff. For instance, having a button which would automatically produce the different possible runs for the next frame, and test which one lead to death, would be an interesting first step.

It might sound simple, but I wouldn't be surprised if programming such a function was much harder than it sounds.

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Postby Unreality » 2017.03.13 (03:01)

um, interesting idea :p an interesting idea to demotivate all human on earth to be creative to find the best route in a map when we finally got the AI doing the job.

and then for every new N scoring contest ppl will run the AI once to figure the best route.

then the map creator will start to adapt to it and specifically make a human-almost-impossible route for the shortest path to nullify the best route calculated.

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Postby zapkt » 2017.03.13 (08:28)

Finding the best route is incredibly complicated and computation-expensive. It seems to me like the last things AI will be able to do.
If I happen to do something, I guess it would first find micro-optimizations at best.

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Postby ska » 2017.03.14 (05:31)

Well, to conclude my point, if someone found a way to automatically run an MBD program that got the best possible time in all level scenarios, you wouldn't just be looking at an incredible breakthrough in this community—you'd be looking at an incredible breakthrough in AI itself.

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Postby zapkt » 2017.08.12 (21:42)

Well, this year has seen quite a lot of breakthroughs in game-beating AIs (with go and poker), so I wouldn't be that surprised :D

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Postby ska » 2017.08.26 (19:06)

Man... it would be fascinating to see a self-learning AI run N. I'm pretty sure you could get it to beat all levels in the game (given enough time, and assuming it was programmed optimally); but, like you said, the inherent non-linearity of N makes this much harder to achieve.

If I had to list a starting point (just for completion's sake), I would make each attempt that guides the ninja closest to the exit be the one that you branch from (which is essentially a form of virtual natural selection/evolution). However, you'd need to have a more in-depth approach than this. Ideally, you'd prune attempts where the ninja doesn't have a direct line of sight with the exit, otherwise you might get situations where the AI hopelessly gets stuck in a loop that results in constant dead ends. Also, maybe some kind of subroutine might be a good idea; for example, have a series of waypoints once a computer has determined that a certain section of the route has been optimised; this could also save on time/computation power.

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Postby ska » 2018.07.24 (14:01)

I have an MBD request that combines my faster start on 6-4 with macrohenry's launchpad angle. I've literally just spent the last few hours using trial and error to try to combine both parts, but even using FBF to use the same jump times yields a subtly different angle that ruins the run. I've tried jumping from further back but with longer jump presses, but that offered similar results; namely, it resulted in the ninja either hitting the rocket or the 1-tile.

The only thing I haven't tried yet is to invoke some null frames (or even pullback frames) somewhere before the launchpad. I have no idea if this would work, but it seemed to do the trick for 5-2. Raif clearly has some real-time experience on this level, and I've wondered for years why he never made an MDB. This level looks simple, but an optimized MBD/FBF of this level seems very tough. I'd also love to see Eddy, TRO, or anyone else have a crack it.

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Postby Raif » 2018.08.06 (23:51)

I'm pretty sure I've tried to MBD that level before, but I was experimenting with the 3 gold at the bottom and never finished it. Can't find that demo now though, and unfortunately I don't have much time to MBD stuff right now. Found a bunch of other stuff while I was looking for the 6-4 demo which I thought I might as well post:

click

Complete 39-3 MBD which I've apparently never posted here before (probably because the route is slower)

Here's the faster (normal) route which was never completed

I also found this pointlessly cool looking jump

A bunch of NUMA maps which I've MBDed for reasons which are currently unknown to me.





Another incomplete demo which is about halfway done



Edit: I think I might actually remember the issue you're having with 6-4. If memory serves me right, when you arrive earlier the rocket fires more to the right and it's impossible to get under it.

Turn on grid and compare


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Postby ska » 2018.08.07 (14:36)

Ah, that's a shame. That was the same issue I kept running into. I feel like there must be a way of getting around it, but perhaps that's just wishful thinking.

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Postby Raif » 2018.08.07 (22:56)

I was going through the previous pages of thread and saw that Eddy beat a few of my ep 0 sr MBDs, so I decided to re-MBD those... and before I knew it I was completing the partial 91-4 demo I posted above as well.

00-1 sr (302f, 1f faster than Eddy (MBD), 3f faster than Kool)


00-3 sr (328f, 3f faster than Eddy (MBD), 5f faster than van)


91-4 hs (277.850, 4.875 faster than macrohenry)


I also tried 00-2 sr but I was only able to tie Eddy's MBD on that one.

Edit: Also did 82-2 because I saw it mentioned in the HS thread

82-2 hs/sr (142.175 / 473f, 0.025 / 1f faster than van/Eddy/macro)

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Postby Raif » 2018.08.12 (18:44)

60-1 sr (280, 3f faster than Kool/dark)


83-4 Highscore (127.975, 4.475 faster than Eddy)

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Postby Raif » 2018.08.12 (23:30)

36-2 hs/sr (81.550 / 338 f, 0.800 / 32 f faster than old MBD)


Shaved .8 seconds off my 36-2 mbd using an innov someone somewhere must have surely considered before. Guess I'm just talking to myself here at this point though. Kinda sad to see the community so dead.

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Postby ska » 2018.08.13 (10:23)

Guess I'm just talking to myself here at this point though. Kinda sad to see the community so dead.

I watched every run. I, personally, particularly enjoyed 91-4 and 83-4. Both of them were totally insane, especially the luck manipulation in 91-4. Thanks so much for your contributions, and I hope others will get to enjoy them as well. Cheers! :)
Last edited by ska on 2018.08.14 (03:33), edited 1 time in total.

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Postby vankusss » 2018.08.13 (20:58)

Raif wrote:Shaved .8 seconds off my 36-2 mbd using an innov someone somewhere must have surely considered before. Guess I'm just talking to myself here at this point though. Kinda sad to see the community so dead.


Wth are you talking about, this place is booming with activity.

I kind of cannot even watch the demos :( I fired up my old Windows XP laptop, but N runs at like 1/4 speed and I'm too lazy to fix that. No other options :(
iNsane http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwrkTEaTXk4 (watch in 480p)( yellow wins )

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Postby Raif » 2018.08.13 (23:01)

@ska: Thanks.

@van: Have you tried right click -> quality -> low? It looks like shit, but generally it makes N run better. I also find that old versions of NReality (v6d4 and v6g2) lag less than the most recent.

Also got a new MBD, 19-4 with my own route:

19-4 Highscore (192.600, 4.400 faster than Eddy)


P.S. Is there any replacement for #n-highscores with the recent death of irc.mountai.net? Well, it's not like anyone talked there for months anyway...

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Postby ska » 2018.08.14 (04:53)

Raif wrote:@ska: Thanks.

@van: Have you tried right click -> quality -> low? It looks like shit, but generally it makes N run better. I also find that old versions of NReality (v6d4 and v6g2) lag less than the most recent.

Also got a new MBD, 19-4 with my own route:

19-4 Highscore (192.600, 4.400 faster than Eddy)


P.S. Is there any replacement for #n-highscores with the recent death of irc.mountai.net? Well, it's not like anyone talked there for months anyway...

I don't know of any IRC replacements, unfortunately. In any case, that 192.600 run was pretty mind-bending. I expected some corner jumps and was not disappointed!

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Postby EddyMataGallos » 2018.08.15 (18:53)

Crazy material Raif,I'm happy to see some new MBD's, enjoyed them all.
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Impressive flag by ska -|- N2High - My software for N2.0 -|- Awesome sig by Hendor

About me & Stats (Spoiler)

Hi, im Eddy, a Spanish highscorer and current Grandmaster of N. I've been playing N since 2006, I beat it on the 8th September 2008, and NReality later too. Started intermittently highscoring Metanet in 2010, although serious highscoring started in late 2011.

Current Stats
• Completed N on 8th Sept. 2008
• Completed NReality on 24th Dec. 2010
0th Place on Metanet 0th Rankings with 443 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Top20 Rankings with 599 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Top10 Rankings with 599 Scores.
1st Place on Metanet Top5 Rankings with 595 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Level 0th Rankings with 361 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Episode 0th Rankings with 82 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Total Level Score: 72142.900 (20:02:22.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Episode Score: 35669.900 (09:54:29.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Point Rankings with 11669 Points.
0th Place in NReality 0th Rankings with 235 0ths.
0th Place for a grand total of 676 Total 0ths.
• Winner of some contests (BUST, 100, 9000, Bounty Hunters, SOAST) and of some rounds of some contests (ROPP, NErratic, Red Ball, NReality Team Arena)

{Info as of 01/Feb/2015} The info may be outdated.

Achievements
• 6th highscorer to reach 100 Metanet 0ths
• 4th highscorer to reach 200 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 300 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 400 Metanet 0ths
• 8th ever Grandmaster
• 2nd* highscorer to reach 599 top-20 Scores
• 1st highscorer to reach 599 top-10 Scores
• 10th highscorer to reach 70k Level Score
• 5th highscorer to reach 71k Level Score
• 2nd highscorer to reach 71.5k Level Score
• 1st highscorer to reach 72k Level Score

Relevant Dates
• First 0th: 31-3 on 04/Oct/10
• Reached 100 Metanet 0ths on 25/Feb/12
• Reached 200 Metanet 0ths on 30/Sep/12
• Reached 300 Metanet 0ths on 16/Mar/13
• Reached 400 Metanet 0ths on 04/Sept/14
• Reached highest amount of 0ths on Jan/2013
• Became the Grandmaster on 12/Apr/2012
• Reached 70k Level Score on 25/Dec/11
• Reached 71k Level Score on 13/Jan/11
• Reached 71.5k Level Score on 01/Aug/12
• Reached 72k Level Score on 04/Jul/14
• Completed N 1.4 on 08/Sept/08
• Completed NReality on 24/Dec/10
• Reached 100 NReality 0ths on Oct/2011
• Reached 200 NReality 0ths on Nov/2011
• Reached 100 Top-20 Scores on Aug/10
• Reached 200 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 300 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 400 Top-20 Scores on Dec/11
• Reached 500 Top-20 Scores on Jan/12
• Reached 599 Top-20 Scores on 04/Apr/12
• Reached 599 Top-10 Scores on 18/Nov/12



Deds & Images (Spoiler)

Thanks to ska for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to BluePretzel for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to da_guru for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this full episode to me!: 00-0 00-100-2 00-3 00-4
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this mappack to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to VODKALOVER for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to runningninja for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to trance for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to llabesab for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to the23 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Traveleravi for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to 123leonidas321 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to the23 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Uniden for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Uniden for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Ors_II for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Sunset for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Leonhard for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Daggafork for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to VODKALOVER for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to RandomDigits/SpartaX18 for dedicating this map to me
Sorry if Im missing any ded.

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ImageThanks to leo.
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