Metagame Reboot - YOUR PARTICIPATION IS REQUIRED!

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Postby Geti » 2010.06.29 (22:28)

el_devo. wrote:Third: You have to do something about the tiles. I assume they are all just squares because it is such an early build, but this kind of tileset is very obviously a result of our N addiction
see http://forum.droni.es/download/file.php ... &mode=view for the planned final aesthetic.
Feel free to help out with whatever you can, it's more a matter of what you're good at than us asking you to do things.
We aren't planning on having slopes etc, but I suppose it can be included later on if we feel the game isn't fun enough without them (which would likely be a symptom of bad level design as opposed to no slopes anyway)
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Postby mattk210 » 2010.06.30 (03:16)

Second: Slow down the movement of the character while running (and just in general) and increase friction and drag. This is a garbage can robot, not a ninja, and it is way too agile. It can jump a little too high and far, and needs to be toned down. I know we are used to freedom of movement and all with N, but you don't want to end up with a game that just feels like a rehash of the same ideas.
I would have to totally disagree with that. Why should a garbage can not be agile? Even if there was some stereotype that garbage cans are supposed to be sluggish, that would make a crap game. I'm already finding it pretty fun experimenting with movement techniques with the roll, we should totally add more stuff like that.

@slopes: Flixel isn't built to work with slopes but we could make it happen I guess. A bunch of stuff would need to be rewritten for that.

i'm still liking the idea of theming the levels after different kinds of garbage by the way. Even if we don't have the continuity I previously planned, it would make the levels a lot more interesting if each one emphasized a specific gimmick or style of gameplay. After we get milestone 1 done, let's agree on a design document. I'm in the process of writing the beginnings of a design document on the wiki with purely my own vision of the game. Where ideas diverge, maybe create subheadings for each member's preferences. edit: http://wiki.github.com/Geti/Metagame/design-document

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Postby Geti » 2010.06.30 (05:59)

I'm both liking and disliking the extra jump from "cannonballing", and only disliking it as it means we need to find the maximum height it allows so that we can design levels with properly unreachable edges (you can jump out of the "pit" at the bottom of screen (0,1) if you cannonball, but not if you jump
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"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby el_devo. » 2010.06.30 (18:06)

For clarification- The extra gameplay afforded by rolling and stuff is great and I do not want it to go, its just that the garbage cans movement is too fast for the game right now. It feels unnatural and awkward. If you need help I could totally join as a level designer.

Edit- That final aesthetics mockup looks terrific. If all of the levels look like that then slopes wont be necessary. I just think slopes could add some interesting elements, such as rolling down a hill to knock over some enemies.

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Postby mattk210 » 2010.07.01 (02:00)

when i'm next free (probably the day after tomorrow) I'll build a version with sliders or something so the player's physics and movement can be tweaked by anyone ingame. Hopefully we can make movement feel natural like that.

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Postby Geti » 2010.07.01 (04:56)

sweet, just remember to make a branch for that.

I'm not going to edit the design doc now, as I think discussion is the best way of deciding things like this, rather than just editing stuff in/out as we see fit.
I agree with you on most of the design doc matt, though I'm not sure rolling should be an upgrade. I think it'd be a good idea to have a lot of base mechanics and have items etc work from there.

ON AMMO: I think it'd be a good idea to make the distinction between a weapon and an item. An item can fire projectiles but not use ammo, but a weapon should use ammo because they should be limited use, imho. I don't like the idea of the player running around with a railgun blasting squads of enemies into pieces, as it kind of ruins the feel I'd like to achieve. I think weapons should be treated as a commodity upgrade, and something to be savoured. Of course, you're likely to be able to get a lot of whatever the soldier's base gun's ammo is, so you can probably go nuts with that at various points, but I don't think it'd be appropriate for our little bin man to become equivalent to a portable, agile SAM silo upon picking up a rocket launcher.

ON BOSSES: I think a light/medium/heavy approach to enemy design would be a good idea, with a "boss" screen just having a very hard setup of enemies. Light enemies should be fairly trivial to dispose of, medium enemies should be able to kill the player easily if they aren't paying attention, and heavy enemies should actually take some effort (or a well placed rocket/rail slug) to take down. Thoughts on this would be appreciated, as I don't think having "bosses" that the editor can access would be a good idea at all.

ON WORLD TYPES: I'd love it if these could be modified to fit in with purely natural islands (like, these are plants etc tacked onto these islands by something). That, or the islands theme should be dropped altogether (but i love it so! ;-;), as I'm having trouble seeing them coexist..
spoiler

"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby mattk210 » 2010.07.01 (10:30)

ammo: how about have a universal ammo system like deus ex 2, and have the big rare weapons use more ammo? like you can use 1% of your ammo for a weak shot or use your whole amount up on one shot with a railgun? Alternatively, an idea might be to have weapons be timed or in some other way limited, like powerups in super mario galaxy (like, you lose it if you touch water or get hit or jump, or maybe you can only have your railgun for 30 seconds before it vanishes.) What I want to avoid is the RPG-like feel of having weapons that you want to indefinitely "save up", which I think just isn't fun.

bosses: Did you mean to say "the editor can't access"? If so I can sort of see where you're coming from. I guess we could improvise bosses with specific situations, yeah. Although instead of having a lot of enemies, it might be more interesting to have some unique combination of objects and terrain with a normal enemy that somehow makes it hard and bosslike. I suppose meeting a new enemy for the first time could count as a boss too.

world types: Honestly I'm not too fussed about the aesthetics, I care much more about the actual game, but I just think different kinds of trash would bring the game together better, and be less generic than "forest", "beach" etc. Sure they could be on islands, i don't see why not (in fact that was how I was originally envisioning them, having water as an impassable barrier)

I don't know what a "branch" is, I might just make a standalone .swf seeing as it will probably be a one-off thing. Yeah maybe roll should be default because it seems to make movement way more fun. We can see if it's necessary after/if we add more movement features?

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Postby Ignate » 2010.07.01 (13:24)

Rolling is too awesomely fun. Please keep it.
Agh I have to go Geti please clarify your HUD to me.

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Postby Geti » 2010.07.02 (05:00)

mattk210 wrote:bosses: Did you mean to say "the editor can't access"? If so I can sort of see where you're coming from. I guess we could improvise bosses with specific situations, yeah. Although instead of having a lot of enemies, it might be more interesting to have some unique combination of objects and terrain with a normal enemy that somehow makes it hard and bosslike. I suppose meeting a new enemy for the first time could count as a boss too.
I'm on the go at the moment, Might post later, might not, but no, I meant the editor can access, as in "I don't think it would be a good idea to have bosses the editor can access", but maybe ones that we can hardcode.
I also think it would be contextual, for some areas it would be hard because it would be a bullet hell, for some areas it could be one really fast enemy, or whatever. I'm not sure that it shouldn't just be a hectic "shit there's so many enemies get to the exit" dash sometimes as well (works very well in N), what are we actually doing for level "ends"? Cause I don't think a boss battle is a good way of doing that (I'd love there to be "minibosses" etc guarding cool stuff that you don't need but might want).

Hud is split into map, level totals, HP indicator, and inventory.
the map shows the level on the XY plane (the up down left right plane), while what was the "height" indicator is now a "depth" indicator.
Level totals, I'm not sure if these would be useful or not here. Could be good to have an overall count I suppose but mleh.
HP is generic battery meter.
Inventory is 3 slots (so you can swap between all items with two buttons and always be within one press from them, as well as limiting the player's ability to carry lots of guns as well as lots of cool gadgets.) and the name and ammo for the one in use (in this case an M16F with 30 bullets left).

I'm keeping it this simple because I think any other more in depth info could be obtained from a "dashboard" which would flip up upon hitting [esc] or whatever "menu" was bound to. That could have info like a big map, totals for everything, a list of enemies killed, artefacts and an analysis of them upon clicking, maybe inventory if we have more slots available (I think that should be an upgrade), as well as saving/quitting options etc.

Ahh have to go sorry I haven't done more work on this, I'll be mostly inactive over the next week :( Sorry for not getting milestone one completed. Matt, if you want to plough ahead with levels go for it, I'm just thinking of making the "mask" data between levels construct a tilemap of solid pixels where the mask is and using FlxU.overlap(player,maskB) or whatever to determine if the player can move backwards and forwards or not. 0 would generate no mask, 1 would generate a tile in the BG mask, 2 in the FG, 3 in both. We could expand this for logic alterations (like low gravity in water etc) and anything else that needs zoning (AI areas?) later on. That's what I had/have planned, if you run out of stuff to work on then go for it, I'm sure you wont ruin my vision.
I'll check in when I can, and code if I get the chance, but it's looking unlikely as of now. If you need to reach me urgently about something, PM me so i get an email bump.
spoiler

"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Ignate » 2010.07.03 (16:53)

Eh, just quickly drew up some concepts. Mostly trying to suggest some plant concepts, enemy concepts are to be taken less seriously since they're not final/solid. A bit messy too, try to ignore that.
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Just some quick sketches.

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Postby Geti » 2010.07.06 (00:11)

Just dropping in to say: Holy shit I love those sketches, especially the plants. I'm also glad the mine beetle got redesigned, I like that idea. I'll be back and coding for this in by next monday.
spoiler

"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Geti » 2010.07.11 (05:46)

Doing some work on this today, god the level format is horrible to work with. I'm going to want an editor a lot sooner than expected unless we don't change the levels after this.
In other news: I now have a 3D level, with masks, I just need to get movement happening. I'll probably draw the masks at 50% opacity or whatever once i've got that working, but I'm going out to dinner now :/
spoiler

"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby mattk210 » 2010.07.11 (08:54)

Whoops, i kind of forgot about this project until i got the email notification just now. As promised, I threw together a quick and nasty physics tweaker build. press the tilde key (same as in N) to enter the console and then you can edit the numbers for each physical constant. (it's just an editable multiline text field).

http://www.swfcabin.com/open/1278835974

In order for maximum air speed to be the same as maximum ground speed, make sure 1 - ground drag = (1 - air drag) / air thrust multiplier.

we should probably decide on the physics before designing levels or objects.

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Postby Geti » 2010.07.11 (11:25)

I GOT 3D DONE FINALLY!
http://www.swfcabin.com/open/1278845202
http://www.swfcabin.com/open/1278845202
http://www.swfcabin.com/open/1278845202


that is all, I'm too lazy to do much more tonight. If someone would update the changelog and readme with buttons and noticed changes, that'd be awesome, or I'll do it myself tomorrow.

EDIT: TURNS OUT IT'S NOT QUITE WORKING YET TEAM, MOVING BETWEEN LAYERS WORKS EVERYWHERE! I'LL FIX IT SOON, OR IF YOU'RE A GIT CONTRIBUTOR (matt :P) YOU COULD HELP ME OUT AND IMPLEMENT THE OVERLAP CORRECTLY!
Last edited by Geti on 2010.07.11 (22:02), edited 2 times in total.
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"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby mattk210 » 2010.07.11 (13:05)

data/tilemask.png isn't in the repository.

i just spent a little while trying to identify the bug with transitions triggering everywhere, I haven't managed to pin it down but it seems there might be some rogue FlxObjects associated with the mask tilemap? FlxU.collide() actually suffers from the same problem, just solveXcollision manages to filter out the false collisions.

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Postby Geti » 2010.07.11 (21:46)

Added stuff to the repo. I think I know how to fix the overlap, it's based around the hitindex of the tilemap I'm using as a mask, which currently isn't set (dundundun!). I'll get on that now, before my eye appointment.

EDIT: FIXED IT
http://www.swfcabin.com/open/1278883195
http://www.swfcabin.com/open/1278883195
http://www.swfcabin.com/open/1278883195

also updated the repo w/ v0.2.1, thanks for the catch again yanni.
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"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Sunset » 2010.07.11 (22:24)

I'll help with some Pixel Art, k? :)

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Postby Geti » 2010.07.13 (10:17)

Arse, didn't get anything done today :/
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"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Geti » 2010.07.17 (06:11)

Fixed the weird plane organisation issue. Things to do for milestone one: implement dynamic objects, reimplement player as an extension of a dynamic object (optional: create an actor class, have player be an extension of that with some extended behaviours (rolling mainly)), make smoke as a dynamic object and spawn in on all collisions between player and terrain involving velocities higher than whatever threshold seems appropriate. MAYBE DO A TILE RENDERING SYSTEM TOO, BUT I WANT TO DO THE EDITOR SO PEOPLE CAN MAKE SOME MAPS BEFOREHAND.
spoiler

"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Ignate » 2010.07.18 (14:43)

I noticed that on the bottom-most portal on the left side, if you go to the leftmost edge of the portal and press up, you get slingshot all the way to the top of the level because there was a wall there. AWESOME.

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Postby Universezero » 2010.07.19 (00:17)

The portals seem more like teleporting than travelling through time... is this the effect we're going for, or are we going to change the environment at a later date to look like it's time travel? I haven't been reading every post in this tread, so I might just be talking gibberish to some. :S
Image

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Postby Geti » 2010.07.19 (04:21)

Yo dawg it's not time travel it's just moving in 3D space, the "portal" is a cave entrance. It'll be more illustrative once we have backgrounds and, you know, proper graphics for everything :P
This needs a little more interest, methinks :/
Ignate wrote:I noticed that on the bottom-most portal on the left side, if you go to the leftmost edge of the portal and press up, you get slingshot all the way to the top of the level because there was a wall there. AWESOME.
huh, yeah.. Should probably fix that :P it'll be easier once we can have background and foreground layers, as the mask will be able to be much smaller. maybe I should make it smaller as is, like, smaller chunks.. We'll see.

One problem currently is that.. well, the level looks like

Code: Select all

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yeah, that's yucky, BUT:

Code: Select all

#
test level
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Geti
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2|2|2
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1111000000000000000011111
1111111111111100000011111
1111111111111111111111111/
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0000000000000000000000000/|

0000000000000000000000000
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0000000000000110000000011
1100011111000000000000001
1111111111000000000000001
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1111111111111111110000001
1111111100000011110000011
1111111000000000000000011
1111111000000000000001111
1111111110011111111111111//|

//|

1111111110011111111111111
0001110000011111111111111
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1000000001110000000000001
1000000011110000111000001
1000110000000011111000001
1100000000000011111100111
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1111111111100000000001111
1111110001110000000001111
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1100000000000001111111111
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0000111111111111111111111
1111111111111111111111111//|

//
#
120|100|1|1|1
#
At least a little better, no? can you see the levels?
I'd love a 3x3x3 level made (27 screens), some of the screens can be empty for sure (imagine them as solid space if you can't get to them, or empty if you can), but it'd be nice to see it on a larger scale. remember, // is an empty level, | separates levels, and the format is tiles/mask/objects (objects does nothing at the moment now) The last section is the player location, as screenx|screeny|x|y|z. It'd be awesome to test the engine on a large level.

Code: Select all

CURRENT OFFICIAL DATA FORMAT: #name#author#x|y|z#scr1|scr2|scr3|...#px1|py1|px2|py2|pz3#
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"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Geti » 2010.07.21 (05:05)

We had a vent last night about deciding core mechanics, couldn't really decide anything though. Dinner was able to be salvaged btw. What do you guys think would be a good thing to focus on in a platformer? We've considered time travel (I'd love to stay away from this as I'll likely be doing a lot of the coding for it and it'll be super complicated), and gravity puzzles, but I don't feel that they're really solid. We need something that'll stick out from a crowd of platformers and also not kill me and matt on implementation time.
We also agreed that overall more communication about this would really help it become metagame, rather than 4guyswhohappentovisitmetanetgame.
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"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
4th - DDA Speedrunning Contest.
One Hundred Percent Vegetarian

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Postby mattk210 » 2010.07.21 (05:36)

second semester at uni has started for me and i've been way more busy than expected so if there's periods where i go AWOL that's probably the reason.

i feel like gravity puzzles could be good in a really simulated, dynamic environment, but with the tilebased stuff we're heading towards I agree it would be bland and not interesting. I don't much like the idea of time travel unless we can think of some really amazing way of implementing it, because it's a gimmick that has been pretty thoroughly explored already.

I'm still somewhat partial to revealing stuff and incomplete information. Squibbles' idea was pretty interesting, another idea might be to have a game with line-of sight so you can't see through walls or objects.

another idea (just throwing out ideas here) is to maybe take another inspiration from N and put a timer on the whole game so smooth consistent platforming is rewarded. Maybe save points would reset the timer?

also we could maybe do something like Braid where we don't have a single "core mechanic" but rather have a bunch of different unique mechanics for different levels.

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Postby Geti » 2010.07.21 (05:59)

http://github.com/Geti/Metagame/graphs/punch_card is an interesting thing.
I don't want to go straight up black box on this, but I agree that line of sight could be interesting. It'd make caverns feel really claustrophobic, which could be good.
spoiler

"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
4th - DDA Speedrunning Contest.
One Hundred Percent Vegetarian

deviantArt Profile - 1BarDesign
God knows if i'm back.


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