Metagame Reboot - YOUR PARTICIPATION IS REQUIRED!

Got a project? Want some help, ideas, advice, or just want to get the word out? This is your place.
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Postby Geti » 2010.08.16 (13:54)

Your definition of physics engine is flawed, methinks. I suppose the current physics system could use a lot more features but I'd really rather focus on gameplay than rework a shitton of maths tbh.

I like the whole "manipulate the landscape to do stuff" idea but i'm not sure it's feasible to do that with the current setup, though if someone has a truly amazing idea I'd be ok with dropping the current code and starting from scratch if the community would jump upon it. I just don't want to write another level parser and set up the frame-based physics again for no reason, especially with matt gone-ish.

Guys, think platformer. Work from there. I like the bin on an island with an imperial army sweeping about but I also like the bin as a rocketpack teslaspy. I just don't know what you like the bin as, which is kind of what's important. I need you guys to put the meta in metagame, otherwise it's just me making a game and some of you having some input. I can get that whenever I want off IRC, the point here is to make this thing as a community. Heck, I'd be pleased for us to just up and make squibbles' splatter game, though I'm not sure how it'd be presented and the 3D mechanic would be fairly useless, but truth be told I'm not that fussed about it. I'd love to give mappers the ability to make 3D routes through levels, but currently I don't even know what the player's goal is meant to be. If you really want I can just make it into a platformer where you have to get to some position through a large level with doors and mines, and put walljumping in an make another N but with a bin, but fuck that. I could develop the way I usually develop, which is constantly iterate design as I'm working on something, but I'd rather we all do that. The only game I'm really working on hard at the moment is Prelude, and that's cause I've got nothing to do here cause I don't want to plough ahead without community input.

Matt, if you're reading this I'd really appreciate it if you could abstract the Dynamic Object physics from the current Player, and have Player extend Dynamic Object. Last time I opened up the file I found the way you've set up the update confusing, and wasn't really able to take out what I wanted to. Pleh, I'll be able to do it but it'd likely be quicker for you to work with your code. I'll probably email you tomorrow, it's almost two here.
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"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Zephyr » 2010.08.16 (20:20)

Universezero wrote:So, a physics engine? Because I concur that that would be a good idea.
A platformer with physics based puzzles.
Clickme
spoiler

Orange- N cannot be spoken, or even thought about in my household. If my parents ever found out that I have played N since the cleansing, my life would be ruined. I keep the game in a multi-passworded .rar on a USB flash drive inside a locked boron alloy container that requires two keys to open (I keep one under the 64th hammer in my piano, and the other one in a small section of removable ceiling in the corner of the attic) hidden in a wall compartment lined with aluminium foil to prevent sonar detection behind my 375 kg cupboard, which is bolted to the floor - the only way to reach it is to abseil outside the fourth floor window and use a screwdriver to unfasten the screws holding the secret brick in place on the opposite side of the wall, but the screwdriver must be a specific type like the one I own, since if any other screwdriver comes into contact with the screws, the entire building will explode, as will a seperate charge placed inside the boron alloy container, rendering the USB useless. Even once the container is retrieved, attemping to open it without the arming pin in place (which is kept inside the battery compartment of my Maglite) will cause the water reservoirs lining the container to burst and react with the caesium lining, causing the container to burst into flames - the only way to prevent this is to use the arming pins to shut off the reservoirs with a sliding steel door. The USB itself contains an accelerometer linked to an explosive charge, meaning that if the USB detects its own movement speed as being greater than 5 cm/s, it will explode - any person attempting to steal it would have to move at a uselessly slow speed. Once plugged into a computer, the USB will upload a ghost virus onto it, leaving no traces. Only the right password can deactivate this virus, and if it is left on the computer for more than six hours, it will format all drives.

As you can see, I take my N playing very seriously.

Guiseppi- I'd much rather watch animals get boned in the ass.

Yanni- If it's glad, it's not rape.

Tsukatu- I refuse to use throw-away bags for such a frequent purpose as buying groceries. Instead, I've collected the hair of my two pet dogs and have woven them together into an all-natural, 100% environmentally friendly bag that I bring with me everywhere. And when I buy products that come in glass and plastic containers, I track down the company that packages them and ship back their containers so that they don't take up space in landfills.


Yeah, I use plastic.

Tsukatu- I hear Ebony Online is great, too. Cum save your princess, my lord!

Ska- UR MUM LIKE IS SPICY

Ska- why d i get the feeling what i typed will end up in the quote depository; or worse: someone's sig.

KinGAleX- I did it on the couch a little while ago.

Zeph- I got too pissed at the knife in the end so I just broke the wood on my knee

[13:50:29] |<-- Zeph has left irc.mountai.net (Quit: Zeph)
[13:50:53] <Zeph> omfg 1950s jazz :D
[13:50:57] <WorldCupE> ZEPH
[13:51:01] <WorldCupE> WHAT
[13:51:11] <WorldCupE> hpw
[13:51:12] <WorldCupE> how
[13:51:12] <Zeph> everyone wears out halfway through the match
[13:51:15] <WorldCupE> ._.
[13:51:17] <WorldCupE> you
[13:51:19] <WorldCupE> aren't
[13:51:20] <WorldCupE> here
[13:51:24] <WorldCupikaze> I think the broadcasters lowered the volume for certain frequencies
[13:51:35] <WorldCupikaze> WOAH
[13:51:38] <WorldCupikaze> STOP IT ZEPH
[13:51:46] <WorldCupE> he's in #n
[13:51:49] <WorldCupE> but not here
[13:51:58] <Zeph> that nz guy wasn't fouled
[13:52:05] <WorldCupikaze> DUBBLE YOO. TEE. EFF.
[13:52:05] <WorldCupikaze> STOPIT
[13:52:29] <WorldCupE> I don't think Zeph can read what we say
[13:52:38] <WorldCupikaze> No
[13:52:41] <WorldCupikaze> But it still happens
[13:52:46] <WorldCupE> xD
[13:52:47] <Zeph> holy shot I'm vibrating to 1950s relaxing jazz
[13:52:58] <WorldCupE> ZEPH
[13:53:01] <WorldCupE> CAN YOYU HEAR ME
[13:53:20] <WorldCupE> donfuy
[13:53:23] <WorldCupE> have you seen this
[13:53:35] <Donfuy> i can't
[13:53:43] <WorldCupE> can't what
[13:53:47] <WorldCupE> Zeph isn't here
[13:53:48] <WorldCupikaze> WHAT's GOING ON
[13:53:51] <WorldCupE> but is speaking
[13:53:51] <WorldCupE> D:
[13:53:58] <Donfuy> can't see what huh?
[13:54:06] <WorldCupikaze> IT'S THE APOCALYPSE
[13:54:10] <Donfuy> where's zeph o_o
[13:54:18] <WorldCupE> precisely
[13:54:21] <WorldCupikaze> Exactly
[13:55:21] <WorldCupikaze> call wide
[13:55:24] <Zeph> Pooh
[13:55:28] <WorldCupikaze> EH?
[13:55:37] <WorldCupikaze> OOOOOOOOoh
[13:55:38] <Zeph> amazing slide tackle saves day
[13:55:48] <WorldCupikaze> WHY ARE YOU TALKING YOU AREN'T HERE
[13:56:53] <WorldCupikaze> call wide
[13:57:02] -->| Zeph ([email protected]) has joined #Worldcup

[13:32:33] |<-- Zeph has left irc.mountai.net (Quit: Zeph)
[13:32:43] <WorldCupE> ZEPH D:<
[13:32:44] <Zeph> fucking irc app
[13:32:47] <WorldCupE> O_O
[13:32:50] -->| Zeph ([email protected]) has joined #Worldcup

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Postby aids » 2010.08.16 (23:18)

It would be neat if the player controlled a stream of water and had to use it to move things around, weigh down walkways, elevate stairs, trap enemies, and fun things like that.
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Postby Geti » 2010.08.17 (04:09)

Physics based games are not a good idea considering the amount of work that has to go into getting an engine behind it. I like working with contraptions as much as the next guy, perhaps more, but that doesn't mean I like working with the code behind it.
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How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby mattk210 » 2010.08.17 (10:48)

ok, i'll make a dynamicobject class.

I check on this thread occasionally so it shouldn't be necessary to email me. If you PM me i think i get an email notification so it's basically the same thing.

edit: ok i basically shifted all update() code to player because almost all of it is player specific (rolling etc). Also I reworked collision because you put a level reference in player so my original method was unnecessary. I had to reinstall git because this is a new computer so it's calling me Matthew@.(none) for some reason. Also the game is running really slow for me, maybe that's because I'm on windows 7.

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Postby Geti » 2010.08.17 (11:56)

:| it's odd that the game's running slow. I'll grab the latest stuff now..

Right, it's all compiled, and it runs normal speed for me, thank you for whipping that out :D
I'll be sure to PM if I get stuck with something, but it's nice to know you read this.

Git's probably dropped your user information, that'd explain why its using what I assume is your NT username without a domain.
spoiler

"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Geti » 2010.08.19 (11:21)

Haven't touched this in a few days sadly, and it's just gone eleven. I might get some work done this weekend though, just getting particles going and the like, maybe player death and a reset button.
spoiler

"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Geti » 2010.08.25 (10:08)

This is what's been eating my time btw:
Image
I've collapsible tiles happening for another game. Should be fun, though I'm expecting headaches.

What's been eating your time, guys? :3
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"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Geti » 2010.08.28 (01:03)

Hooray, more progress! http://losingreception.110mb.com/Prelude/
Now, do we want to do some work on this or are you all going to let this drop off the face of the earth again?
spoiler

"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Spawn of Yanni » 2010.08.28 (02:05)

The problem is we're still at that stage where the rest of the community participation just comes down to giving ideas. Hell in fact, that's not true at all. Hit us up with ideas for enemies to draw.
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Postby ℎalifax » 2010.08.28 (02:28)

Geti wrote:Hooray, more progress! http://losingreception.110mb.com/Prelude/
Now, do we want to do some work on this or are you all going to let this drop off the face of the earth again?
I don't know, this dropping off the face of the earth idea doesn't sound all too bad right about now.

I think we're just at the stage where it's going to be pretty slow for a while as we try to get some ideas going.

That said: time travel.
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Postby Geti » 2010.08.28 (04:31)

@Yanni: Yeah, my problem isn't having to do stuff, it's just that noone else is doing stuff. I don't see what would be wrong with making a platformer that's bordering on generic but with userlevels, an in-game editor and a cool art style, personally. Wacky enemy design and a fun setting would make that kind of thing interesting enough, imo.

@Orange: lol. Might be on IRC today or tomorrow to talk about whether or not I'm considering that :P Might also not considering how slowly I've been working on this seminar I have to write <_<
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"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby el_devo. » 2010.08.29 (01:35)

I think the magnetic/ electric idea would be terrific. IE- in a level there is a broken circuit connected to the door, and you have to go get a random piece of metal to complete the circuit to continue. The whole water/ environmental manipulation idea could also get pretty interesting. Maybe the water could affect your magnetic field? Oh it would be cool if you could see the trash cans magnetic field at all times, and different objects could distort it in varying ways to make it bigger/ smaller, etc. Just throwing ideas out there :)

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Postby Geti » 2010.08.29 (02:27)

I'd like to stay away from water just because of how much of a pain it's implementation is without going into computationally expensive direct physics, though I suppose If we really wanted it I could abstract it into many particles that repel each other like http://www.escapemotions.com/experiment ... index.html but it's pretty average as far as water goes.
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"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Ignate » 2010.09.10 (10:21)

AGH I've been inactive sorry. I quite like the idea of upgrading binbot, but depending on the direction this may change (totally called the whole magnet deal, btw, fosho).

Regarding the premise of the game, gameplay or story-wise, I have a few ideas. Binbot could be like the lowest ranking robot in an entire empire of robots (waste storage and disposal), could be last of an obsolete series. Once a virus or whatnot infects the new robots, it's up to him to save/destroy the empire. Or he could have mistaken a gadget for trash, ate it and got magno-powers. Concerning the jetpack idea, he could use his magnetism to levitate somehow, repelling off metal surfaces.

Gameplay-wise, there isn't a terribly huge amount of stuff appropriate for a dustbin robot. The idea that he could be a spy works though, since he can go into crouch mode and disguise as a bin and sneak around places.

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Postby Kablizzy » 2010.09.10 (10:45)

I like the way you said save/destroy as though you (the player) have a choice during the game whether to be good or evil. That said, good job, all. This is going along amazingly from some very humble roots.
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Postby Geti » 2010.09.10 (10:55)

How odd, I was thinking about this today. I'm working on prelude at the moment, but I might put some effort into this if interest picks up.
Also: Holy shit praise from Blizz.

I like the idea of the bin accidentally eating something that makes it tres awesome; It's fun to have a clumsy, accidental hero. I also like the idea of a virus and possible moral choices in the story. Maybe the gadget the bin ate made it immune to the technovirus and there's some sort of cure hidden away in some sort of mad scientists tower? Maybe we can have alternate endings?
I also think it would be cool to have the campaign in one fucking huge level. 10x10x10 could give us 1000 screens of space to put a world into, and it'd be better to have one bloody polished world than a lot of less epic ones. Thoughts?

It'd be nice to have some sort of more generic end-level so that userlevels can have a purpose that doesn't revolve around a viruscure.. or maybe the virus is spreading and that's your quest that you've set yourself. There could be a few ways to finish a level though. If we want to play on the morality thing those could get interesting.
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"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Ignate » 2010.09.10 (12:35)

GOOD GRIEF KABLIZZY WHERE DID YOU CONJURE UP FROM.

Well, about the one huge world instead of smaller ones, if the loading time isn't that long, seeing it's loading an entire world instead of separate portions, I don't see why not.

I'll see if I can milk the virus idea of all its idea-worth. It would be cool to have a few ways to solve a level. I'm thinking of either a rather general goal, or one that's not quite related to the virus. Finding a specific level goal is a bit tricky, seeing they need to be compatible for shorter userlevels. But just wondering, are there any smaller goals within the world, like screen-specific or 3x3 screens or whatever? Because considering the nature of the 3D system, exploration would be in, and goals may be less obvious to think up if it's one big gameworld instead of separate levels with their own goals.

The cure could either be all in the end level, or could be dispersed everywhere for binbot to collect. Maybe seeing he's immune, binbot himself could generate or produce mini-cures for tough enemies to avoid fighting them, or use it on certain important NPCs (if story-branching and alternate endings are considered).

Or in fact, as the moral dilemma found in the virus is that you either save up to cure the robots or destroy them, there could be a few alternate ideas. One is that binbot's obsolete series' robots (I'll call them B-series) decide to overthrow the new robots (A-series?), and a war erupts. Here, the moral dillema is that binbot will be forced to fight his B-series buddies, who think he's a traitor because he initially doesn't want a war, and the A-series, who think he's a bad guy.

Another idea is that the A-series are recycling/manipulating the obsolete B-series as soldiers for war (either all Bs except binbot were dead and their armour was reused, or some are still alive but controlled or manipulated into becoming war machines), and binbot may be forced to snuff out his buddies in order to stop the A-series empire from further using them and declaring war on who knows what, humans or other robot countries or something crazy.

Really, quite a few story premise ideas can be made from the basic moral dillema issue.

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Postby Geti » 2010.09.10 (20:48)

I'll let you guys go into the story, though yeah, we need to refine level goals into something that can be reused easily.
I think minor goals would be finding a key to get to a new area, or killing a boss, or turning on a generator, or what have you. If we ever get the basic scripting system working (i'm not even sure how feasible it is in flash..) then all of those sort of things will be easier. The ability to have keys and doors on different screens, I think, is very good. It could be handy to have a "detector" item that can show you what doors you keys open. I suppose it could just come default on the map screen though.

Level load-time really shouldn't get too bad. I can make it only run updates on your active screen very easily, and I don't think we'll be short on RAM at any point. We are talking arrays of numbers for the tiles, a cache of like 5 graphics files that're at most 200x200 pixels and minimal physics. I could make it stream screen data for some between-screen (tiny) load time but no lag in-game faaaaaairly easily as well.
spoiler

"I'd be happy for a lion if it hunted me down and ate me, but not so happy for it if it locked up me and my family, then forced us to breed so it may devour our offspring." - entwilight <3
How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby Destiny » 2010.09.18 (23:11)

Megnetic levitation would be amazing for gameplay. You could have metal and non-metal surfaces, and levitating could dodge ground-based enemies, before you rush to the next metal spot, in order to dodge some more.

Maybe as you go further through the game, and get more upgrades, one could be your electro-magnetic field manipulator(?), and by upgrading it you can levitate higher, or use it to grab a metal object from beneath that was previously too distant for your weaker magnet to reach. Thus there is an increased amount of exploration possible as you level up, without having to alter the world.

I like the idea of having the free will to determine the narrative outcome. Either you go and destroy all the A-bots or you save them all or you kill all the B-bots and... the idea that any narrative resolution, no matter whether it's good or bad or fairly nonsensical (kill both? spread the virus rather than cure it? cure it, and then kill them?) is still a succesful completion of the level/game.
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Postby Geti » 2010.09.19 (03:19)

I'm wondering how I'd code the whole "non-linear narrative" thing in a way that it's accessible to userlevels, though..
Like, the ambition is awesome, but writing an engine that allows for essentially user-scripted NPC behaviour seems a little out-of scope..

However, magnets are quite do-able. Would you be able to aim the magnet around? I need to see how you guys are picturing this kind of stuff.
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Postby el_devo. » 2010.09.20 (22:06)

I think that the magnetic levitation could be a kind of jetpack, where you could use it to repel yourself from metallic surfaces, and other surfaces would render the levitation useless. That would make it easier to keep the levitation from getting out of control, and it could allow for some interesting level design. For example, you have to get to a high platform, but the electromagnet that would be used to propel you up there is turned off, and so you have to go hit the switch to turn the electromagnet on. This could allow for interesting physics as well, such as having reversed polarity magnets that naturally push you away, and using the "jetpack" will pull you to them. I think that the controls as they are now are sufficient, and the Jetpack would simply be mapped to the C button or something. Thus you press C to activate the jetpack, and hold C to keep it activated. Other controls would remain the same.

With regard to the virus idea, maybe all of the enemies were previously benign, but became infected. You choice to "cure" enemies, which will net you some positive karma and "good" powers" or to kill them, which will make you more malevolent, but also give you much more powerful "dark" weapons or abilities or something. Then you could turn the game into a kind of good/evil struggle.

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Postby ℎalifax » 2010.09.21 (01:15)

el_devo. wrote:With regard to the virus idea, maybe all of the enemies were previously benign, but became infected. You choice to "cure" enemies, which will net you some positive karma and "good" powers" or to kill them, which will make you more malevolent, but also give you much more powerful "dark" weapons or abilities or something. Then you could turn the game into a kind of good/evil struggle.
I like this idea - reminds me of the good/evil choice you get in Infamous, i.e., rebuild the city and help the citizens or destroy it and kill everybody. Depending on the path you take, you unlock different weapons and gadgets. We'd have to make sure, of course, that both paths have equally good items available to them, to prevent one side from becoming overpowered.


I'm liking the whole magnet idea. The whole 'reverse-polarity' thing could work really well for level design, with elements such as having to work out in order to activate which electromagnet, when to reverse them, and when to use the jetpack (magnetpack? magjetpack? jetmag? magpack?) in order to successfully traverse the level. The inclusion of various magnet-based enemies could twist things even more. I kinda like where this is going, actually.
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Postby Geti » 2010.09.21 (05:26)

I'm liking the magnet idea as well, do we want to work towards that as our primary mechanic and let the rest flow around it?
I'll let you guys keep talking about the morality thing but keep in mind that you'll need to bubble it down to something very simple and also extendible into userlevels. There's no point working on a huge morality system if it's suddenly void in a small map.

I'm going away for a few weeks, it'd be great to see some work done on this when I get back. Sorry for not getting any coding done on this in fucking ages, I've been caught up in exams, prelude, and real life..
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How do you know that God didn't intend for humans to be the animals' caretakers? He might be appalled that He gave us these animals to use and we're fucking eating them. - Tsukatu
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Postby ℎalifax » 2010.09.21 (06:15)

I think the morality thing can work if we keep it within the 'campaign', if you will, and allow free choice for userlevels. That is, in the campaign, you have to choose a path, good or evil (we could throw in 'neutral' to mix things up), to unlock a different set of weapons and gadgets. In the user-made levels, all the items should be available to you. The assumption here is that the user completes the campaign before making/playing userlevels.

I'd like to go ahead with the magnet idea. It makes sense, it doesn't seem too complicated and it could make for some devilish puzzles.
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