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Postby Kablizzy » 2008.11.03 (03:47)

As requested, here is the official Magic: The Gathering topic!

In this topic, you can ask for help building decks, rules help, card advice, discussion, discussion about tournaments, or just general Magic discussion. Also in this thread, we will have links to some of the more popular Magic: the Gathering clients, and usernames for each of us on those clients.

My Qualifications

I was a registered Level 1 DCI judge for about a year, and also worked as an adept on Magic: the Gathering online. I have been playing Magic: the Gathering since Beta, which is around 15 years. I have worked in and around the Magic: the Gathering community for as long as I can remember. I have been to two Pro-Tours, and my DCI rating is hovering somewhere around a 1700. I came in 6th place overall at Grand Prix: Denver, and have placed top-10 in numerous other tournaments over the years. My very first card was a Beta-edition Pestilence, and I have made thousands of different decks over the years. I am a big fan of combo decks and combo/control decks, but I play everything from very casual, fun decks to tournament-level builds. I play Type 1 and Type 1.5, but I am not terribly familiar with anything beyond Time Spiral, although due to my knowledge, I can probably answer most rules-related questions for newer sets as well.



I'll be editing this topic with more information as needed, feel more than free to suggest any!


Magic: The Gathering Online - The standard, as far as I'm concerned. Yes, you have to buy the cards, but you can usually ask a veteran to get you started and trade on up from there. I've played MTGO for a long time, but sold my collection a while ago, so any effort to get back in would have to be at least somewhat concerted. I don't feel like relearning prices.

Kablizzy - Username: I've got about twelve usernames on MODO, and I'm looking to start up again.

Apprentice - The free alternative to MODO, I used to hate Apprentice, but it's okay. If we want to play VIA apprentice, we'll need to get together and try connecting on the same night. Also, Apprentice doesn't seem to work behind routers.

Magic Workstation -

PALEMOON - Username: PALEMOON

Octgn - An odd little program that AF and SlappyMcGee seem to like, I have yet to care enough to get it to work for me.

Web Wizard - Introduced in the original topic, I have yet to get this one to work, either.

Here's how to get started.

1. Download the files from the website, as well as the attached file, the default deck.
2. Make a copy of the test.decks.html, and rename it [your username].decks.html .
3. Open the ww.jar file. You should get a screen like this.
4. Enter your username, email, and check the "new user" box.
5. You should get an email with your password in less than 5 minutes.
6. You can now log in, and you can change your password. Go to the Laboratory window and start building your deck!

Here's the file, because the board doesn't like html. It's just a rapidshare link, though, so if someone can find a permanent host, I would appreciate it.

http://rapidshare.com/files/158233475/test.decks.html
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Postby PALEMOON » 2008.11.03 (04:03)

Should we addhttp://www.magicworkstation.com/ ?

sadly it's only for PC, but it's still a very good program for TCG'ing on the web. i'm PALEMOON on there.

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Postby Sniperwhere » 2008.11.03 (04:08)

I posted this before, but i will again. :P

There are three cards in my deck that are required. The first is gleancrawler. It'a ability is that at the end of turn, any of my create cards put it into the graveyard that turn go back to my hand. Now if i use a Golgari Rotwurm to sacrifice a golgari Brownscale, I gain 3 life, deal 1 damage to the opponent, and get my card back after. Rotwurm's abilit: Black mana, sacrafice a creature: target player loses 1 life. Brownscale ability: When Golgari Brownscale is put into your hand from your graveyard, you gain 2 life.

i used that before and owned that match. i then lost the next one because I didn't get any mana XD

And I saw what you posted kablizzy. Now i wnat one more of each card. XD

Although, my deck is quite illegal in a real tournament. I have a card called Underworld Dreams which deals one damage every time the opponent picks up a card. thus doing damage at the start of each term.

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Postby Kablizzy » 2008.11.03 (04:26)

I'll post a couple of my favorite decks to get us started. This first one is one of my favorite decks of all-time. The sideboard for this could be quite literally anything, but if you really feel weird about using four land, you can throw in some Living Wishes for some of the critters, and sideboard some of the lands as well. Not too sure on how well the Serum Powders work, they throw me off sometimes.

4-Land Stompy wrote:Creatures (24)
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Fyndhorn Elves
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Rogue Elephant
4x Skyshroud Cutter
4x Skyshroud Ridgeback

Spells (24)
4x Berserk
4x Bounty of the Hunt
4x Giant Growth
4x Land Grant
4x Rancor
4x Seal of Strength

Artifacts (8)
4x Bonesplitter
4x Serum Powder

Lands (4)
2x Bayou
2x Tropical Island


And this deck is my favorite deck of all-time. In all the years I've been playing Magic, this one is my favorite.

Turbo-Stasis wrote:Creatures (0)

Spells (31)
2x Counterspell
3x Boomerang
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Mana Short
2x Thwart
2x Ensnare
2x Fact or Fiction
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Cunning Wish
3x Swords to Plowshares
3x Force of Will
2x Absorb
3x Kismet
4x Stasis

Artifacts (8)
4x Howling Mine
1x Feldon's Cane
1x Ivory Tower
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Sapphire

Lands (21)
2x City of Brass
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Flooded Strand
3x Forsaken City
8x Island

[u]Sideboard (15)[/url]
3x Meddling Mage
1x Counterspell
1x Thwart
1x Ensnare
1x Boomerang
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Force of Will
1x Absorb
1x Mana Short
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Disrupt
1x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Cryptic Command
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Postby Kablizzy » 2008.11.03 (04:26)

PALEMOON wrote:Should we addhttp://www.magicworkstation.com/ ?

sadly it's only for PC, but it's still a very good program for TCG'ing on the web. i'm PALEMOON on there.


Ooh, good idea. I'll add it.
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Postby darkshadow » 2008.11.03 (15:36)

I'd appreciate some advice on a deck of mine. It's an evolution of this standard deck from before shards.

Qty Card Name
2 Banishing Knack
4 Edge of Autumn
9 Forest
8 Island
2 Mana Reflection
3 Merfolk Looter
4 Merrow Harbinger
4 Negate
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
4 Ponder
4 Presence of Gond
4 Puresight Merrow
1 Riftsweeper
4 Shelldock Isle
4 Utopia Vow
2 Yavimaya Coast

The current version is this mono blue deck.

Qty Card Name
2 Banishing Knack
1 Bound/Determined
1 Dream's Grip
17 Island
2 Mana Reflection
4 Merfolk Looter
4 Muddle the Mixture
4 Negate
2 Oona, Queen of the Fae
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Ponder
4 Puresight Merrow
3 Remove Soul
4 Shelldock Isle
4 Tolaria West

One thing to keep in mind on advice is that this is a budget deck. With the exception of the Yavimaya Coasts, which were left over from when I played u/g madness, there are no expensive cards in the deck. Thus please don't say "Gifts Ungiven would be great" or something to that effect. (there's also an in between deck that was extended but still u/g).

Now on to basic deck description. The basic idea of the deck is Puresight Merrow + Paradise Mantle (or Utopia Vow) = complete deck manipulation (to be referred to as the combo). The most common kill for the deck is to set up (using the manipulation of the combo) Shelldock Isle hiding Mana Reflection which can be played for free since the combo can let you reduce your library to less than 20 cards. Since Mana Reflection lets the combo produce infinite mana, this allows a kill via Oona by decking the opponent.

Now some details. Muddle the Mixture is a usefull counter that allows you to search up Puresight Merrow and Tolaria West is a tap island that lets you find Paradise Mantle or sometimes Shelldock Isle. Dream's grip is here because sometimes you don't end up going off until a bit later in the game. in these circumstances it lets you use Shelldock Isle a turn early and the singleton copy can be found by the combo (I might take it out because since the deck lost Edge of Autumn as card drawing, it's alot harder to use dream's grip to kill any sooner (in the inbetween evolution, which I didn't provide, it quite regularly made a turn 6 kill into a turn 5 kill (nested parenthesis FTW))). Determined is a trasmute target for Muddle that can be used while going off to not only provide counterspell protection for the turn, but also to draw that Oona that you just happened to put on the top of your library prior to casting. The rest is mostly card drawing, permission or Banishing knack which is an insane spell with Puresight.

Any advice and suggestions are appreciate (other than suggesting Gifts) and thanks for looking it over. (I can provide .dec files. I can also provide the deck list for the in between evolution and answer any questions people have).

Edit: I take it back, Dream's Grip is still quite useful.
Last edited by darkshadow on 2008.11.03 (23:15), edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Luminaflare » 2008.11.03 (16:14)

I should probably get back in to this. Me and Blizzy had some good times playing MGO.

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Postby Topo » 2008.11.03 (23:04)

I make new decks pretty often, but here's a newish one which turned out pretty cool, if random. Note: it's based of a much better deck shown on mtg.com by the name of Ninjafinatog.
btw, this is a real deck, hence the many one-of's.
Creatures:

2 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Reckless Wurm
1 Sedraxis Specter

1 Kederekt Kreeper
1 Looter il-kor
1 Brass Gnat
2 Putrid Imp
1 Dimir Infiltrator

4 Ninja of the deep hours
3 Mistblade Shinobi

1 Qumulox
3 Trinket Mage

3 Psychatog

Non Creature Spells:

2 Cranial Plating
1 Paradise Mantle
1 Ronin Warclub
1 Lightning Greaves
2 Executioner's Capsule

2 Torrent of Souls
1 Animate Dead
1 Thoughtcast
1 Levitation
1 Ponder

1 Jace Beleren

Lands:

2 islands
6 swamps
1 mountain
2 ancient den
4 seat of the synod
3 Great Furnace
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Grixis panorama
2 Crumbling Necropolis


Explanation: (I feel like this deck needs an explanation.)

The goal of the deck is to open with gnat or imps, and then move into ninjas handilly. Here I am limited by my single gnat and two imps, however, the creeper, infiltrator, (which also searches for cranial platings) and looter il-kor hopefully make up for that. Again, I only have singles of these, except the creeper, which I intend to replace what I have the chance, although it does make a nice blocker. Once these are in play, it's easy to use the ninjas a couple of times to get a few cards of what-not. Next, there's psychatog for defense, and cranial plating for smashing the heads in. By replacing basic lands with just about all my artifact lands, (note the two useless ancient dens. If only I had a Vault of Whispers...) it's quite possible to get five or six artifacts into play quite early on. At this point, Qumulox, or much more likely, a cranialy plated flyer or looter il-kor will do the job. If not, Torrent of souls or animate, combined with bogardan hellkite and a discard outlet, of which there are already several, can easilly handle most problems.

Obviously, this deck is not appropriate for very serious play, because you'll rarely get the same result, but it makes up for that in the fun and random category. (artifacts, ninjas, psychatog, and recursion in the same deck)

After thought: Turbo-stasis looks like a real bitch. Force of will + moxes + Ancestral Recall + swords to plowshares...=my nightmare deck.
Last edited by Topo on 2008.11.04 (03:39), edited 1 time in total.
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Postby PALEMOON » 2008.11.04 (00:53)

geez, you guys are oldschool. I mainly play Standard and Block, and rarely go into Extended or beyond.

here's my T2 deck i've been cruising MWS with:

[24] Plains

[4] Hearthfire Hobgoblin
[4] Knight of the White Orchid
[4] Figure of Destiny
[4] Divinity of Pride
[3] Twilight Shepherd

[4] Light From Within
[4] Idyllic Tutor
[4] Double Cleave
[4] Oblivion Ring

I thought light from within was a pretty badass card, so i made a deck around it. Shenanigans ensue with double striking 5/5 goblins and 9/9 lifelinking flying Divinities on turn 5. It's not very competitive but it's still a blast to play. the double cleaves are there because really, no one expects to get double cleaved.

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Postby Kablizzy » 2008.11.04 (11:49)

I don't know what half of these cards do. ;_;

I'll look into these today after I wake the balls up.

Edit: AAAAGH, UNTAP SYMBOL?!?
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Postby blue_tetris » 2008.11.04 (12:06)

Kablizzy wrote:I don't know what half of these cards do. ;_;

I'll look into these today after I wake the balls up.

Edit: AAAAGH, UNTAP SYMBOL?!?


There's an untap symbol now?

End of an era, boys.
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Postby darkshadow » 2008.11.04 (13:29)

blue_tetris wrote:
Kablizzy wrote:I don't know what half of these cards do. ;_;

I'll look into these today after I wake the balls up.

Edit: AAAAGH, UNTAP SYMBOL?!?


There's an untap symbol now?

End of an era, boys.


I just got back into playing after having stopped during fifth dawn. When I first saw all the new stuff I felt the exact same way.
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Postby Kablizzy » 2008.11.04 (23:13)

darkshadow wrote:I'd appreciate some advice on a deck of mine. It's an evolution of this standard deck from before shards.

Qty Card Name
2 Banishing Knack
4 Edge of Autumn
9 Forest
8 Island
2 Mana Reflection
3 Merfolk Looter
4 Merrow Harbinger
4 Negate
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
4 Ponder
4 Presence of Gond
4 Puresight Merrow
1 Riftsweeper
4 Shelldock Isle
4 Utopia Vow
2 Yavimaya Coast

The current version is this mono blue deck.

Qty Card Name
2 Banishing Knack
1 Bound/Determined
1 Dream's Grip
17 Island
2 Mana Reflection
4 Merfolk Looter
4 Muddle the Mixture
4 Negate
2 Oona, Queen of the Fae
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Ponder
4 Puresight Merrow
3 Remove Soul
4 Shelldock Isle
4 Tolaria West


A few questions - Why use Edge of Autumn? Is this just meant to be Type 2? If not, I would suggest a handful of better mana fixers for you. Actually, same question for a lot of these, if you're trying to keep this Type 2, then these might be the best things you've got.

Edit: Wait, you did say Standard. Okay. Nevermind.

Second question - What kinds of decks do you usually play against with this build?

Third - I'd consider putting an extra copy of Oona in the first version, perhaps dropping a Negate to Sideboard.

Also, for the first version, it looks to me like the combo is incredibly fragile. It also seems as though you lose to straight-up control a lot, and in the instance of games 2 and 3, you straight-up lose to aggro builds. Combo builds look to be your best matchup, but even with counterspell backup, they can negate your combo with a well-timed shock (And it seems like a First-turn Seal of Fire would end the game right there). Mana reflection, while a vital combo piece, is incredibly expensive for what it does, and it looks like this deck suffers from the same errs that Alka-Seltzer used to - Even if all of the combo pieces come together, a well-timed counter shuts the entire deck off. Are Force Spike / Disrupt Type 2 legal? Those would help immensely, and while you might have to wait a turn to give counterspell backup, you might post a higher win percentage with it.

For the Mono-Blue version that somehow splashes Black and Green without any sources of Black or Green without Paradise Mantle - This one looks even more fragile - Again, any type of control looks like it would steamroll this build - You might win game 1 due to the "Oh, wow" factor, but games 2 and 3, it looks like you'd get plastered.

======================================

Topo:

That deck looks freakin' nutty. I would give advice, but if it's an actual build, there are precious little things that I'd suggest. One big thing to suggest would be to see if you can invest in some unblockables (Escape Artist springs to mind, which should be cheap). Also, Psychatog for Defense? Let me know what wiggle room you have, and I can likely make some suggestions. First and foremost, Lightning Greaves and perhaps some Bonesplitters for cheap Artifacts. Definitely looks like you need either more control or more acceleration - As it seems like you run out of steam easily. More than that, my only suggestion would be to focus the deck a bit more. But it looks fun as Hell!

Also, yeah. Turbo-Stasis is fourteen bitches in a six-bitch satchel. And not at all because of the Moxes or Recall - Those just make the deck run that much more smoothly. If anyone's on Apprentice, hook up with me and I'll show you some neat tricks. I've got about 20 decks built on Apprentice, so I'm good to throw down pretty much any time.

===================================

Palemoon: Freakin' hilarious deck, bro. I'd like to see that in action.
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Postby darkshadow » 2008.11.05 (02:12)

Kablizzy wrote:
darkshadow wrote:I'd appreciate some advice on a deck of mine.
The current version is this mono blue deck.

Qty Card Name
2 Banishing Knack
1 Bound/Determined
1 Dream's Grip
17 Island
2 Mana Reflection
4 Merfolk Looter
4 Muddle the Mixture
4 Negate
2 Oona, Queen of the Fae
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Ponder
4 Puresight Merrow
3 Remove Soul
4 Shelldock Isle
4 Tolaria West



Second question - What kinds of decks do you usually play against with this build?

Third - I'd consider putting an extra copy of Oona in the first version, perhaps dropping a Negate to Sideboard.

Also, for the first version, it looks to me like the combo is incredibly fragile. It also seems as though you lose to straight-up control a lot, and in the instance of games 2 and 3, you straight-up lose to aggro builds. Combo builds look to be your best matchup, but even with counterspell backup, they can negate your combo with a well-timed shock (And it seems like a First-turn Seal of Fire would end the game right there). Mana reflection, while a vital combo piece, is incredibly expensive for what it does, and it looks like this deck suffers from the same errs that Alka-Seltzer used to - Even if all of the combo pieces come together, a well-timed counter shuts the entire deck off. Are Force Spike / Disrupt Type 2 legal? Those would help immensely, and while you might have to wait a turn to give counterspell backup, you might post a higher win percentage with it.


The first version is long gone as it is no longer legal in standard.
Kablizzy wrote:For the Mono-Blue version that somehow splashes Black and Green without any sources of Black or Green without Paradise Mantle - This one looks even more fragile - Again, any type of control looks like it would steamroll this build - You might win game 1 due to the "Oh, wow" factor, but games 2 and 3, it looks like you'd get plastered.


First, black isn't splashed. Oona is hybrid and I'm really only using Determined and not Bound. Second, mana reflection is played with Shelldock and Determined isn't played except when going off so green mana isn't a problem.

Also, I'll admit it stinks against true control but it has plenty of permission of it's own to get through against most decks. Yes, it looks fragile, but it's far less fragile than it appears as it has a fair amount of counterspell backup and if played correctly can usually recover when disrupted.

I know after such a scathing review you probably fell it's irrelevant but do you have any sideboard suggestions?

I just want to point out that this isn't meant to be competitive against non-budget extended decks. It's only meant as a playable budget combo deck (and is fun other than the building up to fifty mana part). I'm darkshadow1416 on MTGO if anyone wants to play a game.
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Postby Atilla » 2008.11.05 (02:37)

Blizz! Rules question!

Say that you bring a Body Double into play as copy of a creature (eg. Wood Elves). It gets destroyed and goes to the graveyard. Once it's there, it's a 0/0 blue Body Double, rather than a Wood Elves, yes?

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Postby Topo » 2008.11.05 (04:03)

@ above, the answer is yes. It works just like clone.

@ Kablizzy, that pretty much describes the deck. I don't really have much to accelerate it with, and I'm not going to buy anything because I get bored with decks too fast. I've already built built two new decks since then, (last week) one crappy red +x/+0 deck and a good counter heavy fairy deck. No bitterblossoms. Or damnations. So it's not really anything like the fairy deck, but It's fun like the ninjafinatog deck, better though. I left the proper counterspells at home cuase my group doesn't much like them, but I kept daze. nothing like a free force spike when your tapped out.

You know they're reprinting daze in the new box set, "Jace vs. Chandra?" There's that, fact or fiction, ancestral visions, demonfire, rakdos pitdragon, and a couple other notable cards, including hawt new counterspells. Unfortunately there's only one of each of the above, with the exception of counterspell.
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Anyway just thought I'd leave that there. Incidentally, has anyone seen the spoiled conflux cardnames list?
There's an interesting surprise there I'm sure everyone can appreciate.
Obviously don't check if you want to be surprised by the new set.
link to conflux card names

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=131996

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Postby Kablizzy » 2008.11.06 (19:14)

Ah, if it's not meant to be competitive, then it looks amazingly fun. As for the sideboard, it depends almost entirely on what you play, but card acceleration for speedy aggro and extra permission and a bit of creature control - Fact or Fiction is Type 2 legal, I believe, and Unsummon is about to be - Both are staples. Beyond that, just anything that gives you trouble - You might also want to throw in some color-hosers or another win condition if you can.

Also, if you topdeck into a second mana reflection with the mono-blue version? Also, you might look into Lightning Greaves to protect against spot removal.

Topo and Atilla - Correct.

Edit: Also, just downloaded MTGO again, and it's awful. Oh, my God, it's atrocious. It's almost to the point where I can't even log in anymore. Let alone play a game.
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Postby darkshadow » 2008.11.06 (19:26)

Kablizzy wrote:Ah, if it's not meant to be competitive, then it looks amazingly fun. As for the sideboard, it depends almost entirely on what you play, but card acceleration for speedy aggro and extra permission and a bit of creature control - Fact or Fiction is Type 2 legal, I believe, and Unsummon is about to be - Both are staples. Beyond that, just anything that gives you trouble - You might also want to throw in some color-hosers or another win condition if you can.

Also, if you topdeck into a second mana reflection with the mono-blue version? Also, you might look into Lightning Greaves to protect against spot removal.

Edit: Also, just downloaded MTGO again, and it's awful. Oh, my God, it's atrocious. It's almost to the point where I can't even log in anymore. Let alone play a game.


I was actually just thinking about lightning greaves as it is also searchable by muddle the mixture. Unfortunately I think that while it's useful as a way to break through against some decks it's to slow to be useful in most situations. Also, I miss the previous version of MTGO :(.

Edit: Oh, and fact or fiction just rotated out (plus it's not exactly inexpensive).
Edit 2: If you do draw both mana reflections (very ~ 1/40) than you "just" need to get to turn six and mana filter with Puresight plus Mantle.
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Postby Kablizzy » 2008.11.07 (02:30)

You could probably throw a pair of Greaves into the sideboard.

As for MTGO, there's no discernible community. Everything is segmented off and so seperated, the interface looks like someone shat out a cracker and put some little gems on it, and the rooms no longer have any integration whatsoever - It's just a list of games now. I haven't tried to rejoin auction again, but I assume it wouldn't work, since I doubt custom channels are even an option. It's just awful. I'm so disappointed. Maybe I'll give it another try tonight, but Good God. I couldn't even get to a place where I could get in touch with another player, let alone in the same way as I did before. Lowest Common Denominator pisses me the Hell off.
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vankusss wrote:What 'more time' means?
I'm going to buy some ham.

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Postby Kablizzy » 2008.11.07 (22:18)

Okay, I've gotten slightly back into MTGO now, and while the interface is still pretty awful, but in a single night, I've gotten myself back up to 1100 cards, so once I get the cards transferred onto a single account, I'll be playing people on there. I've got a handful of accounts, but I'll most likely be using Kung Fu Jesus or Morigaard if anyone is on.

Edit: Did I say 1100? I meant 2400. Having sixteen accounts has its advantages. Also, my account is Kablizzy, and I'll more than likely be on there.

Edit Edit: Ohohohoho. You guys are in for a treat. Keep a vigilant eye on this topic over the next day or two. We're gonna have something *amazing* coming for you guys.
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I'm going to buy some ham.

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Postby 大見解 » 2009.01.31 (14:40)

Dang. I'm currently trying to get my old elf deck back from my friend, who stole it last spring. >_>

*shivers* "platinum angel". amazing. It's an artifact. It's effect: Your opponent can't win. You can't lose.
As long as that baby stays on the field....

And since I don't exactly know too many cards, I'm having trouble with Apprentice, and building a deck. Any help therE?

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Postby blackbelmoral » 2009.01.31 (21:26)

what type is it?
does it have shroud?
what expansion is it from?
did you know there's a sucky new card from SoA that says: if you were to lose the game, you ge...
ahh, whatever.
i'll post my deck soon.
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Postby 大見解 » 2009.02.01 (02:19)

Yeah.... Nvm. It's pretty good.... but

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and my friend had this card.
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Seriously, does anyone have tips for apprentice?

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Postby PALEMOON » 2009.02.01 (05:09)

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Postby blackbelmoral » 2009.02.01 (05:24)

i HAVE to get that.
somehow.
YAR HAR!
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