N v2.0 database problems: the bad news

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Postby raigan » 2015.01.30 (21:08)

hi everyone,
First of all, I'm sorry it's taken so long for us to post about this -- we've been trying various things to see whether we could salvage something, or find a backup somewhere, but I'm afraid we've officially given up any hope of recovering what was lost.

Some background info: in December, in response to many messages from the community, we asked our database programmer/admin to delete a bunch of offensive levels from the database. Unfortunately, due to a mistake in the query, what ended up happening was that many entire tables of data were deleted!

Normally this wouldn't be a problem, because the server is setup to run regular backups; however, upon trying to restore them, we discovered that backups had stopped working in 2011 (when we changed a few things on the server). Our admin had a backup from mid-2014 which we were hoping to use in the worst case scenario, however the HD it was stored on ended up corrupted.

At this point we have to admit defeat -- the data is gone, and I'm afraid there's no way to recover it.

We're incredibly sorry about this -- you've all poured so much time and effort into making levels, having them all vanish like this is a catastrophe. We feel terrible.

The good news is that the levels themselves weren't lost; the bad news is that all the metadata -- the author's name, ratings, etc. -- has been lost for good.

Moving forward, we'll be setting up a community mod who will be able to view flagged levels and delete them (as well as deleting all levels by a particular user); hopefully this will solve the problem with offensive content.

We're really sorry about this; we'll be taking steps to make sure this never happens again.

thanks,
Raigan and Mare
p.s - in other news, we've started a series of informal "Contesques" to help name some of the colour schemes in N++; please check out our twitter account for more details: https://twitter.com/metanetsoftware

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Postby XandoToaster » 2015.01.31 (00:35)

Well, that's too bad. Problems just happen sometimes. You gave it an honest effort, and that's what matters.

I really appreciate the advice that cooperverdon gave me, to start giving my levels name keys to make them easier to search. Not all of my levels are easy to find, but most of them from about a month before the crash are. Thanks coop. You're the best. You're kind of a jerk, but you're also the best. :)
Today is just a really good day, ya know?

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Postby Oleary15 » 2015.01.31 (01:05)

Its all good, I have no problems with it anymore. Thanks for being honest and letting us know. It's okay, it's taught some of us to put codes on our level titles, as Toaster just said.

Thank you for getting a Community moderator, too. Some levels are still unnecessary, unplayable, inappropriate, etc.
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Postby shomman » 2015.01.31 (01:26)

Ahh well, nevermind, I'm sure we all appreciate the effort you put into trying to remedy that issue :)

On the bright side, no one will ever find those horrible nooby levels I made in my early days, so thank you for that :D
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Postby Oleary15 » 2015.02.02 (03:44)

raigan wrote:Moving forward, we'll be setting up a community mod who will be able to view flagged levels and delete them (as well as deleting all levels by a particular user); hopefully this will solve the problem with offensive content.


It would be great if this could happen asap. We have some guy constantly posting some QR icon level saying it will "help him complete a faster highscore" or something just completely senseless. I have been flagging the levels. Please get this done quickly.
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Postby cooperverdon » 2015.02.03 (06:13)

The levels weren't even that annoying, people are over sensitive and I think those who emailed you (Raigan) should really learn to not care about trivial things such as inappropriate levels. Why delete the levels, when it takes 2 seconds to make an account and a further 1 second to make a shit level, that will disappear into the abyss of levels which haven't been named properly (codes, unique/searchable titles) in mere days.

How will the person to have power to delete levels be chosen? Will that power translate to offensive levels? With regards to freedom of speech, I'd hate for artistic n art of people such as Hitler to be deleted on the bases of offense . Where is the line drawn though? How about a level that says something along the lines of "for every1 that isn't a black person"? This has been made, is this appropriate or too offensive? All this needs to be considered, I don't think the power to delete levels should fall onto just anyone shoulders.

Oleary15 wrote:It would be great if this could happen asap. We have some guy constantly posting some QR icon level saying it will "help him complete a faster highscore" or something just completely senseless. I have been flagging the levels. Please get this done quickly.


Is it really so annoying that its worth hurrying the creators of the game? Its not even the most recent version, its nice enough that issues on nv2 are being addressed at all.
I think every1 needs to calm down and ignore the levels, on a scale of annoying, spam levels on n have to be at around a 2 out of 100.
Last edited by cooperverdon on 2015.02.05 (06:56), edited 1 time in total.

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Postby aids » 2015.02.03 (08:08)

Oleary15 wrote:It would be great if this could happen asap. We have some guy constantly posting some QR icon level saying it will "help him complete a
faster highscore" or something just completely senseless. I have been flagging the levels. Please get this done quickly.


I'm a big fan of M&R, but they did drop the ball in terms of not having moderators from the get-go. (But good on you for acknowledging it.) And it's too bad about maps being hard to find. :/

cooperverdon wrote:The levels weren't even that annoying, people are over sensitive and I think those who emailed you (Raigan) should really learn to not care about trivial things such as inappropriate levels. Why delete the levels, when it takes 2 seconds to make an account and a further 1 second to make a shit level, that will disappear into the abyss of levels which haven't been named properly (codes, unique/searchable titles) in mere days.

How will the person to have power to delete levels be chosen? Will that power translate to offensive levels? With regards to freedom of speech, I'd hate for artistic n art of people such as Hitler to be deleted on the bases of offense . Where is the line drawn though? How about a level that says something along the lines of "for every1 that isn't a black person"? This has been made, is this appropriate or too offensive? All this needs to be considered, I don't think the power to delete levels should fall onto just anyone shoulders.

Is it really so annoying that its worth hurrying the creators of the game? Its not even the most recent version, its nice enough that issues on nv2 are being addressed at all. I think every1 needs to calm down an ignore the levels, on a scale of annoying, spam levels on n have to be at around a 2 out of 100.


Addressing the bold parts:

  1. Why delete? Because if you let one person post shitty maps, everyone will post shitty maps. It's a snowball effect. They think to themselves, "well idontcare666 has ten maps on the front page, and so should I." And it goes from 10 shitty maps a day, to 100, to 1000. Because why would you want to put effort into making a map when you can make the 50th goddamn chimney map of the day? Deleting the spam reveals the maps which actually matter.
  2. Nazi-sympathizing n-arts aside, if you make a map which half of a general populous finds offensive, that map begets deletion. But if you make a map specifically to piss off as many people as you can, a la Hitler pics, you probably should find a different game to play. Since art like that doesn't make anyone's day better. I'd have to see N2.0 stand for Neo-Nazi.
  3. Racism is just as bad as as bigotry. Every so often, when browsing the N1.4 database, I'll find a hateful map and delist it, and post a comment along the lines of "Prejudice and racism is not tolerated here." If one person is standing up for equality, then nobody's gonna change. But if 75% of the community does, then things will improve. You lot have got to stop looking at yourself as individuals, and come together as a whole and force the bad ones to either leave or quit being assholes. The first rule for the N1.4 community was literally "don't be an asshole" (with all subsequent rules being related to this one).
  4. When you say "it's not even the most recent version," I read that as: "M&R made this game but don't have to manage it, because apparently it's a self-governing community." But clearly it's not. Just because it's old hat doesn't mean that it's anarchy and free-for-all time, yeah? At the end of the day, I can't administrate two groups at once, so while I feel bad for the members who actually want the N2.0 crowd to improve, there isn't much I can do to help. Y'all need to lay down some basic guidelines, elect a few moderators, and most of all, care about each other. This is already a niche group; I'd hate to see it crumble under its own stupidity.

And if that comes across as mean, just realize that it took me seven years to learn. You can learn it overnight.
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Postby cooperverdon » 2015.02.03 (08:27)

▲▪►▪▼◄▲ wrote:Why delete? Because if you let one person post shitty maps, everyone will post shitty maps. It's a snowball effect. They think to themselves, "well idontcare666 has ten maps on the front page, and so should I." And it goes from 10 shitty maps a day, to 100, to 1000. Because why would you want to put effort into making a map when you can make the 50th goddamn chimney map of the day? Deleting the spam reveals the maps which actually matter.
[*]Nazi-sympathizing n-arts aside, if you make a map which half of a general populous finds offensive, that map begets deletion. But if you make a map specifically to piss off as many people as you can, a la Hitler pics, you probably should find a different game to play. Since art like that doesn't make anyone's day better. I'd have to see N2.0 stand for Neo-Nazi.


It isnt a snowball effect, its one kid who spams maps for like 10minutes once a week at most. Drawing attention to it is going to result in it happening more, ignoring it is easy and they arent even that annoying.
The tile art of hitler was made for artistic purposes, the person wouldve spent a decent amount of time doing it, and to delete the map cus some people find it offensive is just ridiculous. Just because I believe in freedom of speech doesnt mean I should find a different game, I dont like the idea of everything being censored because some1 claims it is offensive.
I really liked the hitler tile art, it made my day better, it was an enjoyable map and it looked good. It isnt neo-nazi/anti semitic to not delete, or not censor a game, its just letting people express themselves by saying and doing what they want.

I really despise your comment, and I hate the idea that someone like you might be given moderator/admin powers on any game I enjoy playing.

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Postby DraxoBox » 2015.02.03 (13:17)

cooperverdon wrote:It isnt a snowball effect, its one kid who spams maps for like 10minutes once a week at most. Drawing attention to it is going to result in it happening more, ignoring it is easy and they arent even that annoying.
The tile art of hitler was made for artistic purposes, the person wouldve spent a decent amount of time doing it, and to delete the map cus some people find it offensive is just ridiculous. Just because I believe in freedom of speech doesnt mean I should find a different game, I dont like the idea of everything being censored because some1 claims it is offensive.
I really liked the hitler tile art, it made my day better, it was an enjoyable map and it looked good. It isnt neo-nazi/anti semitic to not delete, or not censor a game, its just letting people express themselves by saying and doing what they want.

I really despise your comment, and I hate the idea that someone like you might be given moderator/admin powers on any game I enjoy playing.


1. You're missing the point. Not everybody so easily ignores spammy levels like you do. I'm willing to bet that your "It's just one kid" argument isn't actually true, and that you simply dislike the attention this issue is getting. Maybe one day, you'll see why NUMA's Hot Maps page always looks better than Nv2's "newest" maps page.
2. Sure, it would be fine if it was made specifically for art purposes, however once again I doubt the Nv2 community is mature enough to make art like that for any purpose other than trolling/flaming. "Freedom of speech"? You call trolling "freedom of speech"? Fuck you.
3. You might not know this, but it's actually quite easy to create an offensive map that still has the element of enjoyability. Make the tiles/objects pretty, make it flow well, but the message still comes across. I don't know how in the hell this made your day better, and frankly, nobody gives even the slightest fuck.
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Postby 乳头的早餐谷物 » 2015.02.03 (17:46)

▲▪►▪▼◄▲ wrote:Why delete? Because if you let one person post shitty maps, everyone will post shitty maps. It's a snowball effect. They think to themselves, "well idontcare666 has ten maps on the front page, and so should I." And it goes from 10 shitty maps a day, to 100, to 1000. Because why would you want to put effort into making a map when you can make the 50th goddamn chimney map of the day? Deleting the spam reveals the maps which actually matter.

M&R were talking about removing offensive maps, now you're talking about removing bad maps. This is the slippery slope right here. Removing offensive maps is debatable, but removing bad maps is an absolutely terrible idea. Outright spam, like posting the exact thing over and over again, sure. But where do you draw the line, and who makes that judgement call? And how are people going to become better mappers? It would be incredibly discouraging for new users.

▲▪►▪▼◄▲ wrote:And if that comes across as mean, just realize that it took me seven years to learn. You can learn it overnight.

I don't know if it came across as mean but this bit definitely comes across as douchey.

Pixelwiz wrote:"Freedom of speech"? You call trolling "freedom of speech"? Fuck you.

This is unacceptable. Check yourself.
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Postby aids » 2015.02.03 (18:00)

Sorry, I was a bit tired. I was mostly talking about "spam" spam. As in, maps made to be as useless as possible. Hell, delisting has been a pretty big success as far as I'm concerned. They could implement that.

ℕipply ℙuffs® wrote:
▲▪►▪▼◄▲ wrote:And if that comes across as mean, just realize that it took me seven years to learn. You can learn it overnight.

douchey


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Postby raigan » 2015.02.03 (19:51)

Just to be more specific (I just didn't want to encourage the troll if they read this), someone was posting a lot of penis-shaped levels; since some people play N at work or school, this sort of NSFW content was preventing them from playing the game.

The moderator will be able to see levels which have been flagged; what to consider a flagging offense is a community issue that I hope everyone can sort of agree on, in general we expected it to be used for offensive content (eg penises) and not "bad levels".

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Postby cooperverdon » 2015.02.04 (02:30)

Mad respect to nipply puffs.

I just hope the person in charge of removing maps isnt an overly politically correct, immature, sensitive 'new wave' feminist basement dwelling teenager who will get trigger happy and delete heaps of maps, the slippery slope of what is and isnt acceptable with maps is worth considering.

Thats all I was trying to say.


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