N++?

[james_S]

just fyi a lot of people are using the unofficial Ngame2 forum http://n-game-v2.forumactif.org/ and hence are not here (and instant chat is more popular than forums it seems)

Anyway you guys seem as great as Guylian now (quality Belgian chocolates company set up by a couple)

[aids]

just fyi a lot of people are using the unofficial Ngame2 forum http://n-game-v2.forumactif.org/ and hence are not here (and instant chat is more popular than forums it seems)

Anyway you guys seem as great as Guylian now (quality Belgian chocolates company set up by a couple)

Some people tried to make a new forum before. It didn't work out well for them. Best of luck to y'all though.

[ska]

Some people tried to make a new forum before. It didn't work out well for them. Best of luck to y'all though.

I'm currently picturing a couple of dweeby looking 17-year-olds with broken knee caps, sitting in the fetal position next to a bifurcated server that has an axe wedged inside it, with blood on the butt of the blade, and "Property of Raigan Burns" inscribed on the axe's handle.

[yahoozy]

Mare kills, Raigan Burns.

[ska]

Mare kills, Raigan Burns.

Really? I always thought Mare was more of a good Sheppard type.

[Vyacheslav]

She does seem a bit sheepish at times.

[ska]

That was probably the lambest pun I have seen in a while.

[Mare]

oh, ewe guys.

[乳头的早餐谷物]

just fyi a lot of people are using the unofficial Ngame2 forum http://n-game-v2.forumactif.org/ and hence are not here (and instant chat is more popular than forums it seems)

:(

[sidke]

just fyi a lot of people are using the unofficial Ngame2 forum http://n-game-v2.forumactif.org/ and hence are not here (and instant chat is more popular than forums it seems)

:(

i wonder what the reason is. for some sort of feel good about moderating a forum? it doesn't feel good at all, though. strange people.

[mintnut]

Hey M&R,

in terms of user-levels, could i suggest that players be able to comment on userlevels, to offer specific feedback? i know this brings up all kinds of issues with moderation etc., but it's one of the main problems with the 2.0 userlevels system, and among other things why nmaps.net is still going strong (at least when it's online) these days.

[ska]

eh... I really have to agree with mintnut on this point. Interactive feedback is essential; if only to offer constructive criticism.

[乳头的早餐谷物]

I've been thinking about this too but moderation would be an absolute nightmare. Even if you could cut out outright abuse and spam, we all know that the calibre of the N 2 community is so low that the comments wouldn't be worth reading.

[ska]

I've been thinking about this too but moderation would be an absolute nightmare. Even if you could cut out outright abuse and spam, we all know that the calibre of the N 2 community is so low that the comments wouldn't be worth reading.

I'm actually impressed on the lack of trolls on NUMA. Aside from doghouse, I can't really recall any serious trollers. Doghouse would at least sometimes offer valid complaints. He was just completely tactless!

[raigan]

I'm afraid we're definitely not going to have comments in N++ -- in fact, we've tried to simplify the rating stuff even further from v2.0. We're hoping that with the right heuristics, we can identify the good levels (eg levels that get used in a lot of episodes are probably better than those that don't get used).

Having the full NUMA experience inside the game was something we considered but eventually we realized "so at this point we've re-created twitter/facebook/etc. but within the game" which was a clear warning sign that things were too complex and needed to be re-thought.

We actually axed a bunch of social stuff quite recently (eg notifications about friends' activities, highscores, etc) and instead folded it into the user levels searching/sorting/browsing UI -- this way you can eg browse a list of levels that you're in a highscore battle on, rather than having a feed of "your highscore was lost" notifications. Hopefully this is an improvement!

Beyond the moderation problem, comments are a UI nightmare -- especially for the majority of people who won't have keyboards hooked up to their PS4s. (We'll definitely be including the "expert" mouse+keyboard editor for serious map makers though)

We're hoping that the community uses forums for level design discussions. The new entities definitely provide a lot of new possibilities, we've only had them for a year so we're still sort of just scratching the surface of what you can do with them!

[sidke]

this may be a bit premature but should n++ come to pc, i would be interested in plugging around like is more or less possible with the numa and metanet map servers already. i do have an entire backup archive of all available maps on either and would be interested in adding n++ to that list. i hope you maybe consider having n++ data in a format that is more accessible and legible than n2 data is. i think the ease of use of the n1.4 data is what made it able to have as many fan programs as it did. i believe opening up the data format and api flexibility is a very important part of keeping the community engaged beyond just discussion

[ska]

I'm afraid we're definitely not going to have comments in N++ -- in fact, we've tried to simplify the rating stuff even further from v2.0. We're hoping that with the right heuristics, we can identify the good levels (eg levels that get used in a lot of episodes are probably better than those that don't get used).

Having the full NUMA experience inside the game was something we considered but eventually we realized "so at this point we've re-created twitter/facebook/etc. but within the game" which was a clear warning sign that things were too complex and needed to be re-thought.

We actually axed a bunch of social stuff quite recently (eg notifications about friends' activities, highscores, etc) and instead folded it into the user levels searching/sorting/browsing UI -- this way you can eg browse a list of levels that you're in a highscore battle on, rather than having a feed of "your highscore was lost" notifications. Hopefully this is an improvement!

Beyond the moderation problem, comments are a UI nightmare -- especially for the majority of people who won't have keyboards hooked up to their PS4s. (We'll definitely be including the "expert" mouse+keyboard editor for serious map makers though)

We're hoping that the community uses forums for level design discussions. The new entities definitely provide a lot of new possibilities, we've only had them for a year so we're still sort of just scratching the surface of what you can do with them!

Perhaps it is just my rose-tinted glasses talking, but I think I would have quit making maps long ago if it wasn't for the social integration that Numa provides. Putting an extra degree of separation could diminish the user retention rate. I'm not sure what the most effective strategy would be, but I don't think a 3rd party site for comments would be a candidate. "Now ska," I hear you say, "Numa is already a 3rd party site independent of the game itself."
Yes, this is true, but they both are on the same platform. Unless I'm misunderstanding the approach here, my suggestion would be to have comments next to the "preview map" screen that has a player's avatar, along with a star rating (or percentage rating/like bar etc.) I am genuinely surprised that a very simple text only comments system would be a "UI nightmare". Unless there is something obvious that I'm missing, I can't see it being too outrageous to implement. If moderation is an issue, I'm sure you can call upon people that you trust to help voluntarily, including a flag function. If a person repeatedly abuses the comments system, a suspension or ban can be issued. Also, moderators need not own a PS4 and a copy of N++. You could have the comments database be accessible to moderators from a PC accessible site. You could also take the Mario Kart 8 approach and have a list of pre-approved comments. For instance "That was easy!", "good map!" ,"Very good map!", "That was hard!", "This map could use some improving", "Beautiful tiles", "Clever map" etc. More positive comments could increase a map's visibility, while less favorable ones lower visibility. Just spitballing, here.

[Mare]

In N++, adding UI support for comments etc is a UI nightmare. Trust us ska, it's just not that easy. Especially on a system where most people would enter text via a gamepad.

All is not lost -- we're planning a robust rating and discoverability system that should help.
We're good friends with the team behind Sound Shapes: http://www.soundshapesgame.com/community.html
and are taking a lot of cues from them. Their system is pretty solid, and people are making lots of fantastic levels, so we're hopeful what we've got planned will work for N++.

In other news, we've uploaded the Finals from the N++ PAX Prime Tournament we held:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PnvB_zdsV4

It went pretty well, though there were a few technical problems with the controllers that caused us to switch from 4p to 2p after the first round -- which turned out to be arguably even more exciting! We learned a lot, and everyone seemed to have a great time, so we'll be attempting to hold more tournaments in the future. Keep an eye on our blog for updates!

[macrohenry]

In other news, we've uploaded the Finals from the N++ PAX Prime Tournament we held:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PnvB_zdsV4

Very entertaining to watch and there were some really cool mechanics and tricks in the levels.

[MiBeM]

This competitive mode looks super fun. Will there be online multiplayer or is it local only?

stop showing us all this awesome stuff, I'm getting so hyped I forget I won't get to play the game until it (hopefully) comes to Steam

[golf]

In other news, we've uploaded the Finals from the N++ PAX Prime Tournament we held:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PnvB_zdsV4

I'm going to have to watch that when I have more time. Was not expecting an hour long video!

[ska]

Just finished watching. That was a pretty intense ending there in the final. Regarding the comenting thing, if you have pre-programmed text that a player clan select (like I mentioned in my previous post), it would make "commenting" not only quicker, but you wouldn't need to worry about moderation or the need for a keyboard; since you can only select from predefined phrases. At any rate, I don't think there is anything wrong with your suggestion of having a simple rating system, and being able to discuss them more in detail on a forum or something instead. I'm sure you guys will figure it out.

[yahoozy]

Goddamn that looks excellent. I'm ready to make levels for this game.

EDIT: Just wanna say that one of my favorite things about the game purely as a spectator is the simple redesign of the ninja. It's not a dramatic change, but he seems so much funner to move around with. I remember back in what must have been 2005 seeing an episode of... holy shit, I just remembered. Cinematech, on TechTV, which was showcasing some upcoming games. N popped up and the design and movement of the ninja was absolutely incredible to me, I had to play it. Major kudos for reinvigorating that feeling.

[james_S]

We actually axed a bunch of social stuff quite recently (eg notifications about friends' activities, highscores, etc) and instead folded it into the user levels searching/sorting/browsing UI -- this way you can eg browse a list of levels that you're in a highscore battle on, rather than having a feed of "your highscore was lost" notifications. Hopefully this is an improvement!

'folding it into the user levels searching etc' is what I expected a part of it to be -I talked about a button that toggles whether status of your run etc is shown next to the map's thumbnail (which would be particularly useful when browsing your favorites) -rather than a stream of red alerts causing a 'panic'. But I don't think that means that alerts can't work alongside it -especially when using constraints such as only maps in your favorites, or maps you or a friend ran recently. (can be toggled also)

And I think a thing to aim for is being able to see a 'friend's run even if they are not on the leaderboard -like you can do on NUMA.
Gd luck anyway/ I'm sure you guys will figure it out anyway

PS I think the new exit design is clever :) and I wonder if you are aware that if you stack objects in Nv2 it makes them more substantial -so you can also have big explosions and long tails on rockets, but we tend to avoid that.. See demo map here http://www.thewayoftheninja.org/nv2.html?l=101480
I also like your mini zap drones that can squeeze through half tile gaps. I had another idea now for an enemy if anyone wants to see or say what they think- http://forum.droni.es/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... 57#p167057 Your original n game 1 ones are the greatest though

[aids]

In other news, we've uploaded the Finals from the N++ PAX Prime Tournament we held:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PnvB_zdsV4

Very entertaining to watch and there were some really cool mechanics and tricks in the levels.

Comments:

• If the little slanty line squares are launchpads, that's amazing.
• Your map-making style has basically become "nu retro post-modern metanesque" and that's pretty cool. Still, for me personally, some of the maps could use edits.
• So far I love the whole "names go up and down" aspect, but it would be sooooo much easier if instead of having everyone's numbers, you'd have the fastest person's time, and then all the other names would be "+35.050" or however time is registered now.
• I heard in your interview that your difficulty curve goes from "toddler-friendly" to "masochist-friendly", but you have to work on grouping them closer together. There should be a nice progression otherwise you might scare off your average player.
• The redesigned ninja is flawless.
• Still no checkpoints yet, though. :((((( Checkpoints are one of those "so simple and yet to helpful" features that N desperately needed.
• Not only is You Suck mode genius, the way you implemented it is craaazy good. *gives you a gold piece*
• Ummmm, I'm still pretty on the fence about whether I like the moving mines. They're fun to look at yes, but seem quite frivolous.
• Don't know how y'all feel about gradients, but I'm seeing some potential instead of the flat color schemes.
• Well, now that I see the new launchpads, I'm not exactly sure what the slanty line squares are.
• It's obviously far too late to implement any of my suggestions, but it would have been smart to create a new surface that you can't touch, instead of using the standard mine floors or mine walls.
• Guys, NReality's "Display State" option is super useful. If you're considering adding it, stop considering and add it. :)

  

  teeny tiny fonts are bad, mmmkay?

• If you look at the screencap I have above, you'll see that the score font is disproportionately small. Same with the player names. I'd like to see that text embiggened. As it is, it's pretty hard to judge the discrepancy between the two scores. Maybe even redesign the layout so that the second place score is on top of the first place score like this: http://imgur.com/4P7ZnWP
• The sudden death rocket is a nifty thing, but honestly it's pointless on some of these levels. Is it a option for tournament play, or is it part of the game?
• I'm loving these cute litttle perpetualasers. Good jorb.
• You guys really need to cut back on the drones. I might have to take you both to Drone Lovers Anonymous.
• I heard the word 'survival' and hope that you've added a survival mode. But chances are you didn't.
• "Drone Blindness" is my new ambient music project. It'll just be me dropping marbles on a snare drum and whistling.
• WAIT WAIT WAIT HOLD UP. Are you telling me that when you get to the exit, you control your Sudden Death rocket? Because I just might shit myself. You two truly are brilliant game designers. (Unless you stole that idea from another game, in which case comment redacted.)
• Having the ninja start on the exit switch really defeats the point of an exit switch, dontcha think?
• The new floorguards are uuuugly. I hope the sprites change. The two little "feet" don't belong.
• Heheheh, "looping" is the name for the rocket trolling, and I think it'll be quite popular.
• For "You Suck" mode, random enemy deletion is the way to go.
• You're thinking of Sibilant S which is in fact a very fun level.
• It might be helpful to make toggle mines a different color so that you can distinguish them from normal mines.
• Seeing the other levels after you complete a level is a nice touch.
• Too bad the ninja's win post isn't Gangnam Style.
• I'm not familiar with video games. Does the PS4 have streaming options? Because that would be awesome.
• Still really happy you got 1-tile stutter jumps figured out. Congrats.
• All the little flairs you've added like the rocket smoke swirls and the laser shakes are great. And how the exit looks.
• Did you get rid of chainguns? Because I haven't seen any yet and that sucks.
• Oooooh! The slanty line squares are boosters! That makes so much more sense.
• You guys and your Super Mario in-jokes. :v (And these new thwumps are very cool-looking.)
• Gold is now a very different game element since you have multiple tries at the level but can only get gold once.
• "Nobody has seen this before in N." NReality is still a thing, guys. There's so much shit going on in NReality your little heads might melt if you tried to comprehend it all. :p
• Did you ever see that movie The Birds? If N++ was a movie, it would probably be called The Drones.
• If I were you I would try to stay away from straightforward levels like "run up a slope with mines" because that map is taking the place of an even better map for sure.
• Ooooh! New enemies! Exciting! (Albeit kinda lame.)
• Man, if you guys had left the dead ninja bodies scattered around the level, it would have been hilarious.
• These ninja look sooo sleek now. Potential tattoo idea?
• So is King of Defeat familiar with N? And if so, where is he?

That was two hours well spent on my part. I hope N++ is a big success for you guys, and if I ever get around to playing it, I'll come kick some ass at your next tournament. <3