Are you okay with gays?

Debate serious and interesting topics, rant about politics or pop culture, or otherwise converse in essay form about your opinions. The rules of conduct here are a little stricter.
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Postby wolfgang » 2008.11.06 (02:24)

* THEY PUBLICIZE IT. This isn't racist, BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO BE GAY. You can't choose to be fat, you can't choose to be black, you just are. They choose it, and they suffer from it.
You're right, it's definitely a choice. One day all these dudes decided, hey, there isn't nearly enough bigotry and discrimination in my life, I better up and suck some dick.
And all the teenagers who killed themselves rather than come out to their family, they were just massive attention whores.

........and since when isn't a choice to be fat? I know it's very hard for some people, but you simply burn more energy than you take in and you will start to burn fat.

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Postby sheganican » 2008.11.06 (03:59)

rennaT wrote:
Radium wrote:
Evil_Sire wrote: I think the black thing is way out of proportion, insulting somebody because they are gay is different to insulting a black person.
How so?
It's way easier to be black than it is to be gay. Black dude doesn't have to come out of the closet to his long-time friends that leaves their relationship strained and forever changed. Black dude never has to have a meeting with his employer to discuss the possible repercussions of his black lifestyle. Black dude never has to sit his mom and dad down and tell 'em, "Mom, dad? I hope you still love me but... I'm black."
i wonder if people who think like that remember a little thing called slavery. i dont, as i am 14, but im sure if you walked up to a black person and asked them how slavery was, you'd probably regret it in some way.

Atob's music analogy was very well put.

The thing that really pisses me off is when people say "thats gay" like its a bad thing. being gay is just as bad as being black, or being christain, or being jewish, or being hispanic. We've all let slip a few prejudice jokes maybe about gays or blacks or christains, but i think its terrible how gay's got the short end of the stick and are forced to be ridiculed. there have been gays as long as there have been blacks. christianity is different, because it was invented.

so maybe next time something really grinds my gears i should say "oh man thats Muslim, dude"
(sarcasm)


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Postby jean-luc » 2008.11.06 (04:25)

wolfgang wrote:
* THEY PUBLICIZE IT. This isn't racist, BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO BE GAY. You can't choose to be fat, you can't choose to be black, you just are. They choose it, and they suffer from it.
You're right, it's definitely a choice. One day all these dudes decided, hey, there isn't nearly enough bigotry and discrimination in my life, I better up and suck some dick.
And all the teenagers who killed themselves rather than come out to their family, they were just massive attention whores.

........and since when isn't a choice to be fat? I know it's very hard for some people, but you simply burn more energy than you take in and you will start to burn fat.
(cross posted from Prop. 8 thread)

there's pretty inarguable evidence that it is at minimum heavily influenced by factors before birth. The leading theories are A) homosexuality is primarily caused by a genetic factor (determined at the time of conception) or B) homosexuality is the result of an allergy/intolerance to one of several hormones on the mothers part.

There are physical traits linked to homosexuality that make it clear that there are physical factors (determined as the body develops). an example is finger lengths. Generally men's second and fourth fingers have a notable difference in length, while women's 2nd and 4th fingers are almost exactly the same lengeth. In homosexual individuals, however, this is the reverse. Another example is hair: in men, the hair on the back of the head generally 'swirls' in a clockwise direction. in most homosexual men, however, it is counterclockwise (and most individuals with counterclockwise hair are homosexual).

This clearly suggests a physical determination of homosexuality, which indicates that it is not a choice.

Also, on the topic of fat people, it's known that a predominant factor in body weight is genetic. your genetic makeup determines a certain 'normal' weight. For some individuals, a 'healthy' or 'average' weight is actually too low - some of the people that we consider 'fat' are actually at a perfectly healthy weight for their particular physiology. (of course, morbidly obese individuals aren't healthy by anyone's count...)

Remember that very few things in medicine and psychology are as simple as someone 'choosing' or 'being lazy.' genetic makeup, environment, history, and individual physiological makeup virtually always make one person's 'normal' or 'healthy' different from another's.
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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2008.11.06 (07:13)

eganic wrote:being gay is just as bad as being... christain, or being jewish
Whoah now, let's not lump them all together. Being gay isn't actually all that much of a bad thing (just disadvantageous in our retarded society).
eganic wrote:so maybe next time something really grinds my gears i should say "oh man thats Muslim, dude"
True story: I managed to influence a Christian friend of mine this way. I'd say "that's so Christian" while she continued to say "that's so gay."
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Postby SkyPanda » 2008.11.06 (12:22)

I have a few questions about homosexuality, is it okay for me to post them in this thread?
I apologise in advance if my questions cause offence to anyone or are innappropriate. :/

Question one: i'm not pretending this is even close to fact, but i've heard, and read, of persons who would otherwise be heterosexual, being exposed to homosexuality in some way at a young age or over a long period of time and 'becoming' (for lack of a better word) homosexual. Is this possible, or an urban myth?

Question two: What is the difference between being attracted to men, and being very attracted to say, short 35-year-old women with blonde hair wearing red hats? I'm not proposing that there is no difference, i'm asking what the difference is, as there obviously is one.

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Postby Eiturlyf » 2008.11.06 (14:33)

Gay people are awesome. They have a great sense of humor and don't try to be overly cool.
Most, atleast.

I like 'em.
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Postby Evil_Sire » 2008.11.06 (15:11)

I'm struggling to see how black people relate to gay people. And cut the racism, because I hate racists.

Some people don't actually choose to be fat, they have an illness that makes them fat. They don't walk into the kitchen and think 'wait a fucking minute, I'm going to eat until i'm fat!'. So shut the fuck up about fatties, cos they don't choose it.

Stop bringing up completely un-related subjects like blacks.

PS: Some of the fittest girls in the world are black *cough*Jordin Sparks*cough*Rihanna*cough*Cassie*cough*

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Postby 乳头的早餐谷物 » 2008.11.06 (15:26)

Evil_Sire wrote:I'm struggling to see how black people relate to gay people. And cut the racism, because I hate racists.

Some people don't actually choose to be fat, they have an illness that makes them fat. They don't walk into the kitchen and think 'wait a fucking minute, I'm going to eat until i'm fat!'. So shut the fuck up about fatties, cos they don't choose it.

Stop bringing up completely un-related subjects like blacks.

PS: Some of the fittest girls in the world are black *cough*Jordin Sparks*cough*Rihanna*cough*Cassie*cough*
So why not try and defend your discriminatory attitude instead of focusing on what you say are "completely un-related subjects"? Good reasons have been given for why race and sexuality are similar in that they are not choices.

I also love how you say "fatties" in the same breath as telling us to "shut the fuck up about" them. You're so sensitive and inclusive—overly sensitive, apparently, because I haven't noticed any racism either.
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Postby Evil_Sire » 2008.11.06 (15:37)

BLACKS DO NOT RELATE TO GAYS.

If you walked up to a gay, and said "bender", nothing would happen.

If you walked up to a black person, and said "nigga", you would get the fuck knocked out of you.

Obviously, people have a choice to be gay, and a choice to be straight, all this about "you are born gay" is bullshit, because you choose when you are older. I wasn't born thinking "women are fit", otherwise if I had a fit woman doctor i'd have gormed at her.

So cut this "you are born gay" and "you don't choose to be gay", because it isn't true.

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Postby 乳头的早餐谷物 » 2008.11.06 (15:51)

Evil_Sire wrote:BLACKS DO NOT RELATE TO GAYS.

If you walked up to a gay, and said "bender", nothing would happen.

If you walked up to a black person, and said "nigga", you would get the fuck knocked out of you.
I know it's important to be civil while debating, but I have to say, that is the stupidest explanation I have heard for a long time.
Evil_Sire wrote:Obviously, people have a choice to be gay, and a choice to be straight, all this about "you are born gay" is bullshit, because you choose when you are older. I wasn't born thinking "women are fit", otherwise if I had a fit woman doctor i'd have gormed at her.

So cut this "you are born gay" and "you don't choose to be gay", because it isn't true.
Let me ask you. When did you decide to find women attractive? Did you weigh up the options of being gay or bi? Come up with a list?
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Postby Evil_Sire » 2008.11.06 (15:59)

maestro wrote:
Evil_Sire wrote:BLACKS DO NOT RELATE TO GAYS.

If you walked up to a gay, and said "bender", nothing would happen.

If you walked up to a black person, and said "nigga", you would get the fuck knocked out of you.
I know it's important to be civil while debating, but I have to say, that is the stupidest explanation I have heard for a long time.
Evil_Sire wrote:Obviously, people have a choice to be gay, and a choice to be straight, all this about "you are born gay" is bullshit, because you choose when you are older. I wasn't born thinking "women are fit", otherwise if I had a fit woman doctor i'd have gormed at her.

So cut this "you are born gay" and "you don't choose to be gay", because it isn't true.
Let me ask you. When did you decide to find women attractive? Did you weigh up the options of being gay or bi? Come up with a list?
I started to find women attractive when I was about 7, when I was watching TV and saw fit women. So no I didn't have "no conscious decision", it was a conscious choice to find women attractive.

Stupid you may find it, it is true.

I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO ARGUE WITH YOU. I'm contraversal, stop encouraging me because I want to flame you so, so badly.

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Postby 乳头的早餐谷物 » 2008.11.06 (16:12)

Evil_Sire wrote:I started to find women attractive when I was about 7, when I was watching TV and saw fit women. So no I didn't have "no conscious decision", it was a conscious choice to find women attractive.

Stupid you may find it, it is true.

I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO ARGUE WITH YOU. I'm contraversal, stop encouraging me because I want to flame you so, so badly.
Hey, I can certainly accept you started to find the opposite sex attractive at a certain age. I can think back to when I wasn't into the ladies. I just have a hard time accepting that you made a conscious decision or choice. That's not just at some point noticing that women are attractive—that doesn't mean you chose to make it happen. If you made a choice, it would have to have been something along these lines:

You start off not thinking anything of the opposite sex. Then, at some point, you think to yourself, "I'm going to make myself find women attractive". Then, and only then, you find them attractive, as a direct result of that decision.

Did you do that? I'd love for you to really think about it and describe what happened.
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Postby Evil_Sire » 2008.11.06 (16:18)

Well I don't have that good of a memory.

I just don't like gays, and nothing anybody is going to say is going to make me think otherwise.

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Postby jean-luc » 2008.11.06 (16:20)

Evil_Sire wrote:BLACKS DO NOT RELATE TO GAYS.

If you walked up to a gay, and said "bender", nothing would happen.

If you walked up to a black person, and said "nigga", you would get the fuck knocked out of you.

Obviously, people have a choice to be gay, and a choice to be straight, all this about "you are born gay" is bullshit, because you choose when you are older. I wasn't born thinking "women are fit", otherwise if I had a fit woman doctor i'd have gormed at her.

So cut this "you are born gay" and "you don't choose to be gay", because it isn't true.
The body of scientific evidence simply doesn't support you.

The 'choice' issue is a sensitive matter. Kinsey stated that the majority of individuals are actually bisexual and live out their lives as heterosexuals due to societal pressure, and statistics suggest that many individuals that consider themselves heterosexual do to societal pressures are actually not. however, just like you middle school counselor told you, pretending to be something you are not is unhealthy. Gay individuals can and do enter heterosexual marriages, but very seldom with good consequences. There is a known phenomena of homosexuals in conservative 'pretending' (consciously or even sub-consciously) to be heterosexual, which virtually always results in depression or other emotional disorders, as well as relationship failure. A present example of this is certain republican senators.

From what science (both physical sciences like neurology and biology, and less physical fields like psychology and sociology) has determined, there is a physical cause (or at least significant influence) for sexual orientation; going against this cause has notable negative psychological effects.

I will also address SkyPanda's questions
SkyPanda wrote:Question one: i'm not pretending this is even close to fact, but i've heard, and read, of persons who would otherwise be heterosexual, being exposed to homosexuality in some way at a young age or over a long period of time and 'becoming' (for lack of a better word) homosexual. Is this possible, or an urban myth?
For some time this was a leading theory for the cause of homosexuality. However, modern research (particularly research indicating a physical cause) seems to refute this. The phenomena still appears present, so it may be exposure to homosexuality causing homosexuality to appear more 'normal' to the victim, resulting in the homosexual 'side' of them (which Kinsey theorized exists in everyone) surfacing despite societal pressures.
SjyPanda wrote:Question two: What is the difference between being attracted to men, and being very attracted to say, short 35-year-old women with blonde hair wearing red hats? I'm not proposing that there is no difference, i'm asking what the difference is, as there obviously is one.
I would submit that there is no difference. However, the difference as society generally sees it is that being attracted to women is 'normal,' whereas being attracted to men is not (or even sinful).
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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2008.11.06 (19:08)

I'm going to have a fucking aneurysm.
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Postby DemonzLunchBreak » 2008.11.06 (19:28)

Evil_Sire, stop being a flame-trolling, colossal retard. This is a warning.
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Postby Skyling » 2008.11.06 (19:39)

Evil_Sire wrote:nothing anybody is going to say is going to make me think otherwise.

I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO ARGUE WITH YOU.

I'm contraversal, stop encouraging me because I want to flame you so, so badly.
I apologize if this is overstated, but, well, get the fuck out of Debate.
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Postby sheganican » 2008.11.06 (21:47)

agreed.

debate doesnt mean defending your point

it means looking at both sides of the story and deciding whats right. sortof.

if you think that's right, and nothing is going to change that, then why are you hear discussing it?

I still think this topic is bull.


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Postby SkyPanda » 2008.11.06 (21:55)

I'd prefer trolling to weird english slang that I cannot understand. :p
jean-luc wrote: For some time this was a leading theory for the cause of homosexuality. However, modern research (particularly research indicating a physical cause) seems to refute this. The phenomena still appears present, so it may be exposure to homosexuality causing homosexuality to appear more 'normal' to the victim, resulting in the homosexual 'side' of them (which Kinsey theorized exists in everyone) surfacing despite societal pressures.
That seems logical, thankyou.
jea-luc wrote:I would submit that there is no difference. However, the difference as society generally sees it is that being attracted to women is 'normal,' whereas being attracted to men is not (or even sinful).
I don't think being attracted to short blonde women with red hats would be genetic, whereas you say homosexuality is. :/

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Postby sheganican » 2008.11.06 (22:01)

EVIL SIRE.

are you saying that you are positive that when you were born you were destined to be straight? definitely? no other option?

if so, then doesnt that work the other way around?


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Postby Tanner » 2008.11.06 (22:30)

Evil_Sire wrote:I just don't like gays, and nothing anybody is going to say is going to make me think otherwise.
Man, that really sucks. I wish I didn't have to share this world with people like you.
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Postby Why Me » 2008.11.06 (22:47)

rennaT wrote:
Evil_Sire wrote:I just don't like gays, and nothing anybody is going to say is going to make me think otherwise.
Man, that really sucks. I wish I didn't have to share this world with people like you.
Amen.

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Postby Radium » 2008.11.07 (02:38)

Evil_Sire wrote: if I had a fit woman doctor i'd have gormed at her.
Are you shitting me?
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Postby jean-luc » 2008.11.07 (04:18)

SkyPanda wrote:
jea-luc wrote:I would submit that there is no difference. However, the difference as society generally sees it is that being attracted to women is 'normal,' whereas being attracted to men is not (or even sinful).
I don't think being attracted to short blonde women with red hats would be genetic, whereas you say homosexuality is. :/
Ah, good point. I suppose I meant what I said from more of an aspect of what it means to social interactions. It also occurs to me that the previous sentence doesn't make sense.

I don't think that there's anything worse about being gay than there is about liking blond women with red hats. The cause, however, is likely different (it's possible that things like that are genetic/determined at birth, but I'd doubt it. we still don't know enough about how any of that works).

I would recommend checking out the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University. it's the best known of the groups studying sexuality specifically. they deal with sexual orientation a lot.

http://www.indiana.edu/~kinsey/about/
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Postby Tanner » 2008.11.07 (05:04)

So, I just want make sure I've got this right here.

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Have I got this *ahem* straight?
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