Arizona signs the immigration bill (targeting Latinos)

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Postby Kablizzy » 2010.05.06 (04:41)

While I disagree with the racial profiling, bottom line is that they're Mexican and illegal. The point of the bill certainly isn't anti-terrorism; If we were ever serious about terrorists not crossing our borders, we'd have done something, y'know, substantial a long, long time ago. What it's about is their legality, the financial burden that they place upon the economy, and how to rectify said burden. Problem being is that Arizona is apparently full of retards also who can't grasp constitutional law or basic problem-solving.

Anyway, re: the police thing. People rage against police for the same reason that they raged against us as Admins - They think it makes them look cool to call cops pigs and make up reasons why they're not at fault for the stupid bullshit they do. I would remind you of all the douchetwats who were subsequently blackholed from internet until their 21st birthdays, but I'm pretty content in just having used the words "douchetwats" and "blackholed" in the same sentence. Twice.
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Postby scythe » 2010.05.06 (08:42)

So... don't live in Arizona. Problem solved. Considering that nobody sane would ever go there in the first place, it's not too much of a change.
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Postby ADMINISTRATOR » 2010.05.08 (03:36)

Smörgåsbord wrote:Anyway, re: the police thing. People rage against police for the same reason that they raged against us as Admins - They think it makes them look cool to call cops pigs and make up reasons why they're not at fault for the stupid bullshit they do. I would remind you of all the douchetwats who were subsequently blackholed from internet until their 21st birthdays, but I'm pretty content in just having used the words "douchetwats" and "blackholed" in the same sentence. Twice.
No we don't do it to look cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbwSwvUa ... r_embedded
I rest my case.

Edit- Warning- This video contains graphic scenes.
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Postby Tanner » 2010.05.08 (17:20)

ADMINISTRATOR wrote:No we don't do it to look cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbwSwvUa ... r_embedded
I rest my case.

Edit- Warning- This video contains graphic scenes.
People like you are the reason I rarely take this crap seriously. These guys are going into a situation that they are doing their best to be prepared for. Their concern is firstly for themselves and secondly for the suspects that they are charged with apprehending. Dogs can be dangerous and really don't speak English very well. This video is exactly how I would want to be treated if the police ever had a warrant for my arrest. Everything is by the book.
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Postby Kablizzy » 2010.05.08 (21:49)

ADMINISTRATOR wrote:
Smörgåsbord wrote:Anyway, re: the police thing. People rage against police for the same reason that they raged against us as Admins - They think it makes them look cool to call cops pigs and make up reasons why they're not at fault for the stupid bullshit they do. I would remind you of all the douchetwats who were subsequently blackholed from internet until their 21st birthdays, but I'm pretty content in just having used the words "douchetwats" and "blackholed" in the same sentence. Twice.
No we don't do it to look cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbwSwvUa ... r_embedded
I rest my case.

Edit- Warning- This video contains graphic scenes.
You don't have a case. Stop trying to justify your bullshit. You link to a single video, and win the argument? Le YAWN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X14ID3zybSk

Your move.
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Postby lord_day » 2010.05.08 (22:14)

Smörgåsbord wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X14ID3zybSk

Your move.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iORpLPmFfHU

How can you respond to that?
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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2010.05.09 (00:50)

If I was a cop and got that call, I don't think I'd even attempt to pull that son of a bitch over and take him down peacefully. I'd just open fire immediately.
63 years is bullshit. You don't just shoot a cop in the fucking face out of nowhere. These are the people who should be getting the death penalty. There's no gain from putting him in prison, zero chance of rehabilitation, and he's just going to make life miserable for the prisoners who don't deserve to die behind bars.
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Postby ADMINISTRATOR » 2010.05.09 (04:22)

hairscapades wrote:People like you are the reason I rarely take this crap seriously. These guys are going into a situation that they are doing their best to be prepared for. Their concern is firstly for themselves and secondly for the suspects that they are charged with apprehending. Dogs can be dangerous and really don't speak English very well. This video is exactly how I would want to be treated if the police ever had a warrant for my arrest. Everything is by the book.
Dude, I don’t know about you, but I take my rights pretty seriously, and honestly I can’t believe you’re okay with the cop’s actions on that incident. First of all, a cop’s job is to first determine if there is a lethal threat. Secondly, cops are supposed to open fire only if their lives are in danger, not to make their jobs easier. Here the first thing they do is kill the “aggressive” pets. One was a caged pit bull and the other a corgi. How aggressive can a caged pit bull and a corgi be? I guess they wanted to make sure that mean, aggressive caged pit bull and corgi never got aggressive, EVER, EVER again.

Also, I know they had a warrant, but even so being trigger happy is not procedure. Its excessive force, and that’s pretty clear here considering they started shooting and killing almost instantaneously upon entry. Think about it. Imagine if they had shot the child, because it was so dark and cold and they couldn’t see anything and they were scared and they thought he was a threat. Then what?
Smörgåsbord wrote:You don't have a case. Stop trying to justify your bullshit. You link to a single video, and win the argument? Le YAWN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X14ID3zybSk

Your move.
You’re proving my point further. First of all that was no routine stop. That cop’s story is BS because of his initial reason for pulling that guy over. I’d understand if someone actually called in to report a disturbance or if he was parked outside a library, but here the guy was simply driving down an isolated country road minding his own business. Then, that dick of a cop was like “Hey you! Turn it down! I can’t get my sleeping on.”

The whole thing about the guy being a felon was all coincidence. That cop has probably been abusing his authority for a while and it finally caught up to him.

lord_day wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iORpLPmFfHU

How can you respond to that?
Nice. That's a better example than mine. :P



Anyway, the reason I am showed that initial clip was to present an example of what the police can do to you even before you’ve been convicted of anything. The only way to combat this is to know our rights.
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Postby Rose » 2010.05.09 (05:42)

hairscapades wrote:
ADMINISTRATOR wrote:No we don't do it to look cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbwSwvUa ... r_embedded
I rest my case.

Edit- Warning- This video contains graphic scenes.
People like you are the reason I rarely take this crap seriously. These guys are going into a situation that they are doing their best to be prepared for. Their concern is firstly for themselves and secondly for the suspects that they are charged with apprehending. Dogs can be dangerous and really don't speak English very well. This video is exactly how I would want to be treated if the police ever had a warrant for my arrest. Everything is by the book.
Now look, obviously I'm no police expert, but surely there are better ways of handling that. Don't they have mace or something? To just fucking shoot a guy's pet has to be the wrong solution :|
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Postby Seneschal » 2010.05.09 (08:26)

ADMINISTRATOR wrote:You’re proving my point further. First of all that was no routine stop. That cop’s story is BS because of his initial reason for pulling that guy over. I’d understand if someone actually called in to report a disturbance or if he was parked outside a library, but here the guy was simply driving down an isolated country road minding his own business. Then, that dick of a cop was like “Hey you! Turn it down! I can’t get my sleeping on.”

The whole thing about the guy being a felon was all coincidence. That cop has probably been abusing his authority for a while and it finally caught up to him.
Ah, that old debating technique, making shit up to try and justify your position. You do realize that this whole paragraph is unsupported speculation, right? And that it's also complete bullshit?
The cop states that the guy's music was too loud, which is why he pulled him over. It was a routine stop. You're randomly saying that the cop is lying, without having evidence for it. In fact, your whole argument seems to be based on your strangely derogatory opinion of the police, something like "Cops can't possibly be trying to prevent crime, which is their job, they're just trying to stop people from enjoying themselves by breaking the law! Yeah, fuck the police, man!!!"
I mean, surely you can't actually hold this opinion? You must know it's wrong in every aspect, right? Work with me here, dude. The guy was pulled over because he was playing his music too loudly. The guy proceeded to shoot the cop in the fucking face. Any you think that this is ok, because the policeman randomly made up that reason for his own amusement, and so had it coming? I mean, for fuck's sake, it's pathetic. Your whole case relies on a load of stuff you made up because, for some reason, you think the police are actually "bad guys" instead of being people whose job it is to prevent people from breaking the law.
hat cop has probably been abusing his authority for a while and it finally caught up to him.
No. You have no fucking evidence for this.
You need a serious reality check: The police are agents of law enforcement. They may have faults, but at the end of the day, they, and their aims, are well-intentioned. I don't know why, or how, you have come to the conclusion that by trying to keep people safe they are in fact infringing on your rights, but get it out of your head. They do what they think is necessary to keep people safe. People like you, who claim that they deserve being shot in the face because you think that they have been abusing their power on the sole evidence that they are a cop, are only making their job harder, displaying your ignorance and stupidity in the process.

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Postby Tanner » 2010.05.09 (14:49)

MAXXXON wrote:Now look, obviously I'm no police expert, but surely there are better ways of handling that. Don't they have mace or something? To just fucking shoot a guy's pet has to be the wrong solution :|
Dibs on not being the mace guy when your team is in charge of raiding a house.
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Postby Rose » 2010.05.09 (17:51)

hairscapades wrote:
MAXXXON wrote:Now look, obviously I'm no police expert, but surely there are better ways of handling that. Don't they have mace or something? To just fucking shoot a guy's pet has to be the wrong solution :|
Dibs on not being the mace guy when your team is in charge of raiding a house.
All I'm saying is that this is the 21st century and surely we've got better methods of controlling an animal than killing it. Other than that, I agree with Seneschal on everything.
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Postby squibbles » 2010.05.10 (01:05)

Also, just throwing one last thought out there, as everything else seems to have been wrapped up nicely in glossy paper with a ribbon, but if for some reason you /do/ have justification for being pissed off at a cop, then that is exactly what you have. Justification to be pissed at a cop. One. Not the whole organisation.
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Postby otters~1 » 2010.05.10 (03:09)

That guy shot a dog in No Country For Old Men and I didn't hear anyone complaining.
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Postby Tanner » 2010.05.10 (13:41)

ghoulash wrote:That guy shot a dog in No Country For Old Men and I didn't hear anyone complaining.
Probably because they were too busy complaining about how shitty the rest of that movie was.
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Postby Kablizzy » 2010.05.11 (03:27)

ADMINISTRATOR wrote:The whole thing about the guy being a felon was all coincidence. That cop has probably been abusing his authority for a while and it finally caught up to him.
This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever read, ever. And I've debated against Creationist Christians. The level of retarded bullshit herein is not only maddening, but also baffling and motherfucking *infuriating*.
ADMINISTRATOR wrote:You’re proving my point further. First of all that was no routine stop. That cop’s story is BS because of his initial reason for pulling that guy over.
YES! YES! SHOOT THE COP IN THE FAAAACE! IT'S JUSTIFIABLE! YESSSS! ANARCHY! RAPE! PILLAGE!! You have no point.
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Postby ADMINISTRATOR » 2010.05.11 (07:50)

Seneschal wrote:Ah, that old debating technique, making shit up to try and justify your position. You do realize that this whole paragraph is unsupported speculation, right? And that it's also complete bullshit?
The cop states that the guy's music was too loud, which is why he pulled him over. It was a routine stop. You're randomly saying that the cop is lying, without having evidence for it. In fact, your whole argument seems to be based on your strangely derogatory opinion of the police, something like "Cops can't possibly be trying to prevent crime, which is their job, they're just trying to stop people from enjoying themselves by breaking the law! Yeah, fuck the police, man!!!"
I mean, surely you can't actually hold this opinion? You must know it's wrong in every aspect, right? Work with me here, dude. The guy was pulled over because he was playing his music too loudly. The guy proceeded to shoot the cop in the fucking face.
Pal, you’re wrong. We are allowed to turn up the music, so long as we do not infringe or disturb anyone’s frame of peace of mind. Getting stopped for loud music on a lonely, country road? My ass. That public servant is there to serve not to pull people over for trivial reasons. He just had the misfortunate luck of getting shot. And fine let’s give the pig the benefit of the doubt and pretend that guys music was above the legal decibel level (whatever that is) they were still on a desolated country road. No one was around. Who the hell was being disturbed? Some skunks, coyotes, and maybe some brown illegal immigrants. It would be a different story if they were in the city, and there was an actually person around.

But seriously, if you actually believe that was a routine stop (in that particular case) you are either blind, in denial, or just plain stupid. Probably just plain stupid and you need to think outside the box. Shit, if you’re okay with stupid stuff like that you may as well support a law that says they can pull anyone over for honking the horn. Oh, wait a minute, they already can. Shit, I hope the day never comes when I’m stuck in traffic and I honk the horn and get pulled over for it. Cause that would really suck and then they’d surely teach me a lesson.
Seneschal wrote:Any you think that this is ok, because the policeman randomly made up that reason for his own amusement, and so had it coming? I mean, for fuck's sake, it's pathetic. Your whole case relies on a load of stuff you made up because, for some reason, you think the police are actually "bad guys" instead of being people whose job it is to prevent people from breaking the law.
Dude, don’t put words I never said. I never said I 100% cops are bad. I realize they are here to serve us, but sometimes they do a half-assed job of it. My concern occurs when they think they are above the law they uphold, and can go around speeding in neighborhood streets, and at the same time pull people over for trivial reasons like loud music, improper use of a horn, busted tail lights, not signaling on time, etc.
Seneschal wrote:No. You have no fucking evidence for this.
You need a serious reality check: The police are agents of law enforcement. They may have faults, but at the end of the day, they, and their aims, are well-intentioned. I don't know why, or how, you have come to the conclusion that by trying to keep people safe they are in fact infringing on your rights, but get it out of your head. They do what they think is necessary to keep people safe. People like you, who claim that they deserve being shot in the face because you think that they have been abusing their power on the sole evidence that they are a cop, are only making their job harder, displaying your ignorance and stupidity in the process.
Oh is that so?? Seriously, what kind of la la world do you think we are living in? Have you ever even actually engaged with an official? I can tell probably not many times, because if you had you wouldn’t be so ignorant to make them ALL (or most) to be noble knights with shiny badges, and you shouldn’t be so naïve. Look around you for a minute. If you did, you wouldn’t be so shocked to see that many things are wrong with our legal process and police misconduct is on a rise and laws like the new Arizona law are going to increase that current number. As a consequence sometimes people actually snap. No, I’m not saying it’s justified, but what I am saying is if you make a habit of pushing dogs around one is eventually going to bite.
Smörgåsbord wrote:YES! YES! SHOOT THE COP IN THE FAAAACE! IT'S JUSTIFIABLE! YESSSS! ANARCHY! RAPE! PILLAGE!! You have no point.
I don't wish that on anyone. I never said otherwise. What I am saying is that none of that would've ever happened if he wasn't going around being reckless in the first place by pulling people over for the volume on the stereo.
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Postby sidke » 2010.05.11 (08:32)

ADMINISTRATOR wrote:aggravating crap
after reading this thread, i've deduced you're just a troll. you can't honestly be on the side of the criminal asstards that make this world a dangerous place to live. if you are, you are an angsty preteen with a problem with authority, and by default you lose. luckily, that attitude usually passes. usually.

ADMINISTRATOR wrote:What I am saying is that none of that would've ever happened if he wasn't going around being reckless in the first place by pulling people over for the volume on the stereo
no matter the reason, shooting people in the face when they get in your way - contrary to your strange beliefs - is not the answer. please understand this before you end up doing life for being an irritable, overreacting prick.

i also like how you assume you know everything of law enforcement procedures. unless you have attended police academy and know the ins and outs of the system, proper reactions, and sop for threats and criminal apprehension (which, judging by your apparent lack of mature logic, would have to make you a juvenile cop prospect at what.. age 12?)... let's just say you do not, and it's not your place to pretend you do.

(also why you are all up in arms about feds vs illegals when feds vs us citizens already happened 9 years ago boggles me. you're a little late)
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Postby Tanner » 2010.05.11 (13:12)

ADMINISTRATOR wrote:
Smörgåsbord wrote:YES! YES! SHOOT THE COP IN THE FAAAACE! IT'S JUSTIFIABLE! YESSSS! ANARCHY! RAPE! PILLAGE!! You have no point.
I don't wish that on anyone. I never said otherwise. What I am saying is that none of that would've ever happened if he wasn't going around being reckless in the first place by pulling people over for the volume on the stereo.
Whether you like it or not, in our current system, that is the police's prerogative. We rely on our police force to make these judgment calls because sometimes they save lives. Nobody else has the authority to make these decisions and I would much rather have someone trained and educated to do so than, say, you.
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Postby otters~1 » 2010.05.11 (16:14)

I finally have something to add to this meaningless thread: here in Austin, people like to cruise around with their subs maxed and the windows down etc., generally being complete douchefucks. There isn't really any penalty beyond a warning for this behavior. So some civil service hero had an idea. His idea was that every time someone was pulled over for driving around loudly annoying the neighborhood, they would be locked in a room and forced to listen to Barry Manilow for twenty-four hours. It works.

EDIT: I should probably add that our cops are sorta considered bumblers, especially after one member of a squad managed to shoot another member a few months ago.
Last edited by otters~1 on 2010.05.12 (22:48), edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ADMINISTRATOR » 2010.05.12 (08:03)

makinera wrote:no matter the reason, shooting people in the face when they get in your way - contrary to your strange beliefs - is not the answer. please understand this before you end up doing life for being an irritable, overreacting prick.

i also like how you assume you know everything of law enforcement procedures. unless you have attended police academy and know the ins and outs of the system, proper reactions, and sop for threats and criminal apprehension (which, judging by your apparent lack of mature logic, would have to make you a juvenile cop prospect at what.. age 12?)... let's just say you do not, and it's not your place to pretend you do.

(also why you are all up in arms about feds vs illegals when feds vs us citizens already happened 9 years ago boggles me. you're a little late)
Dude, are you kidding me! When the hell did I say “Yea, take that cop”?! NEVER. I already made it crystal clear that the shooting was wrong (not right) and unjustified. You guys just keep misconstruing what I’m saying, and I can’t believe I still have to keep repeating myself.

I’m pointing out the initial reason for pulling the guy over was wrong. Just because I said that part everyone is assuming that now I also think the shooting was a good thing. Well, it wasn’t. It never was a good thing and I never said it was.

Anyway, talking about that video is getting old and tiresome, but if anyone else responds to it, please, only focus on the initial reason for the traffic stop. Not the shooting itself, because again, we all agree(d) the shooting was unjustified, and no one ever said otherwise. People just assumed I felt that way.


edit- In case anyone is interested, this is an update on the SWAT incident- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XmjNxKO ... Co3F77cXAs
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Postby Tanner » 2010.05.12 (13:51)

ADMINISTRATOR wrote:Anyway, talking about that video is getting old and tiresome, but if anyone else responds to it, please, only focus on the initial reason for the traffic stop.
Dude, I did and you seem to have skipped over it. What you seem to take issue with (and correct me if I'm wrong) is the police interfering in the life of others for minor violations of the law. As I've said before, I've personally been pulled over a couple of times for minor traffic violations (my plates were out of date and my one brake light was out) and both times I was informed of my violation and then the police officer let me go on with my business. The "interference" into my life was over in less than 10 minutes and improved my safety and the quality of life for me and my fellow citizens.

When the police pulled over that guy with the loud stereo, they were acting in exactly the same way. As I said before, the officer was making a judgment call. They decided that this was a situation that needed to be dealt with in some formal way even if it was just a warning. That is their prerogative. That is their job, as police officers. He was not acting in any way outside of his official duties. It would likely have been a minor interaction for a minor infraction. Of course, we'll never know exactly what sort of interaction it might have been because the fucker shot the guy in the face!
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Postby Spawn of Yanni » 2010.05.12 (15:02)

ADMINISTRATOR wrote:And fine let’s give the pig the benefit of the doubt and pretend that guys music was above the legal decibel level (whatever that is) they were still on a desolated country road. No one was around. Who the hell was being disturbed? Some skunks, coyotes, and maybe some brown illegal immigrants. It would be a different story if they were in the city, and there was an actually person around.
Incidentally, cars move.

Can't see why you'd prefer that the driver be allowed to go into a populated area while blasting his music rather than have the music stopped before anyone is affected.
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Postby Kablizzy » 2010.05.12 (20:31)

ADMINISTRATOR wrote:I don't wish that on anyone. I never said otherwise. What I am saying is that none of that would've ever happened if he wasn't going around being reckless in the first place by pulling people over for the volume on the stereo.
Maybe you're not understanding the role of Police Officers, or - like - authority in general. So, same scenario - I'm listening to my music loudly. A cop pulls me over and tells me to turn it down.

I TURN IT THE FUCK DOWN.

Do I care if I'm actually breaking the law? No. The officer asked me to do something, and I did it. Did he ask the guy to get out of the car, drop his pants, and spread cheeks? Nope. If a Police Officer stops me to tell me I left my cup of coffee on the roof of my car? "DUDE THAT'S SO WRONG HE SHOULDN'T PULL ME OVER FOR THAT JESUS FUCKING CHRIST" is the wrong Goddamn attitude. The funny thing about the past page or so of the debate is that I linked to a single video, just like you did, and you thought I linked to it to argue about it. I linked to it to be a trolly asshole and show you what kind of a ridiculous d-bag you're being. Officers are good. Criminals are bad. Officers are also people. They make mistakes sometimes. Get over it. If I were a trainee watching stock footage of officers getting shot in the face because *Criminals* didn't want to go to jail for *Their own stupid bullshit*, I'd get a bit fidgety with my trigger-finger too.

It's funny. If a cop pulls you over, I'd assume he has a valid reason. If he doesn't, and through casual conversation you two figure out that he doesn't, you tip your hat, say "Good day, officer," and go the fuck on about your day. I don't know what universe you're living in, but in no universe that I've been a part of have I ever been even remotely anywhere *near* being in trouble with the law. Why? Durrr. I don't do illegal shit. But more importantly, I don't do shit that can be *considered* illegal either.

At work, we're not allowed to carry cell phones anymore because of customer privacy issues. Most of the store whined and bitched about it. I didn't carry my cell phone anymore. Seemed pretty intuitive. What's funnier, is that everyone else is still carrying their phones. So when they get caught on their phone, they get in trouble. I don't understand what part of that is okay or right to you. Everyone who's been here since the early days knows my only policy here - Don't be a fucktard, and you won't get treated like a fucktard. People who follow the rule are still around - people who don't aren't. It's funny how you seem to hold humans who are also police officers to an unrealistic standard *Whilst* backing criminals whom you hold to absolutely no standard whatsoever. I dunno. It seems pretty simple to me.
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Postby Luminaflare » 2010.05.12 (21:30)

ADMINISTRATOR wrote:*words*
You're an ass. And not a lovable one like Suki.

Anyways yes there are corrupt cops but it's no where near what you think from what you see on TV or in books/movies, go grow a brain.


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