The universe

[Brainwasher]

The only influence which I am under is that which I have placed upon myself.
Also, I don't like the tase of alcohol.

[Condog]

The only influence which I am under is that which I have placed upon myself.

...so, you admit you are under an influence? I don't see how you are disproving Tsukatu by saying that.

[Brainwasher]

I mean not to disprove, but to clarify.

[Losttortuga]

The universe doesn't exist. Everything is only a perception of being real. There is no proof of anything, because the proof of the proof wopuld be grounded in "reality". Reality does't exist. You made up reality to cope with nothingness in your mind, but you don't know it. Everyone only exists to themselves, because everyone else is a projection made by your brain.
Think on this.

But we exist?...
If there is some part of us that can exist, you call it our mind, then how can there be nothing at all?

Doesn't seem like you understand what you're talking about.

[Condog]

The universe doesn't exist. Everything is only a perception of being real. There is no proof of anything, because the proof of the proof wopuld be grounded in "reality". Reality does't exist. You made up reality to cope with nothingness in your mind, but you don't know it. Everyone only exists to themselves, because everyone else is a projection made by your brain.
Think on this.

What is "real"? How do you define "real"? If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.

[DemonzLunchBreak]

The universe doesn't exist. Everything is only a perception of being real. There is no proof of anything, because the proof of the proof wopuld be grounded in "reality". Reality does't exist. You made up reality to cope with nothingness in your mind, but you don't know it. Everyone only exists to themselves, because everyone else is a projection made by your brain.
Think on this.

What is "real"? How do you define "real"? If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.

Gahahaha. Thanks, Morpheus.

[Brainwasher]

If you think that you or anything exist, that is your choice, but if you focus enough, if you think nothing, you can change the things around you, proving that they are all in your mind.

[DemonzLunchBreak]

If you think that you or anything exist, that is your choice, but if you focus enough, if you think nothing, you can change the things around you, proving that they are all in your mind.

Really? Seriously? Come on, guy. You know that's bullshit.

Also, make me a sammich. (and by that I do not mean that I want you to produce a sandwich for me, I mean that I want you to turn me into a sandwich, thus validating your completely insane worlview).

[blue_tetris]

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude, I think you are a sandwich so you are a sandwich.

Whatever happened to ther Demonz that tried to turn every argument into a discussion on subjectivism? That guy was in the ether, mang.

[DemonzLunchBreak]

Whatever happened to ther Demonz that tried to turn every argument into a discussion on subjectivism? That guy was in the ether, mang.

Haha, he started to think about stuff.

[Brainwasher]

Thank you Bluetetris, DLB is a sandwitch. People can (and will always) believe what they want to believe. I have stated what I think I know based on my past reading and experience. What about the rest of you; besides the first page, none of you have really made an opinion of your own. You have only rebutted against mine. Be a man (or woman if that be the case) and make a case for yourself and state your opinion on the universe.

[DemonzLunchBreak]

Thank you Bluetetris, DLB is a sandwitch.

Now, let's critically evaluate how much of a sandwich I am. Do I have slices of bread holding me together? No. Do I have cooked meat or vegetables accompanied by condiments in between those slices? No. On a scale from 0 to 10, 10 being a sandwich and 0 being nothing like a sandwich at all, I'm a .4, tops. Your worldview is a pathetic failure.

People can (and will always) believe what they want to believe.

False. People are sometimes more willing to believe things that they want to be true. People will sometimes be convinced (with little or no evidence) of things that they fear to be true. People will sometimes believe arbitrary shit for no reason. However, most people have some semblance of rationality and connection with the real world, and will not believe in anything that directly contradicts what they know to be true. For instance, I do not believe that the universe is made of super-awesome rainbow-bunny-candy, even though I want to.

And ultimately, people's beliefs are not what we're discussing here. We're discussing the nature of an external, objective universe. This universe does not change depending on what beliefs people have about it. I've met people who sincerely believe that Halloween is the devil's holiday. There are people who sincerely believe that they are elves... or Napoleon Bonaparte... or that taking shitloads of ketamine helps them talk to God. All of these beliefs are astoundingly out of touch with reality. A single, objective, reality. People do believe whatever they want, but their beliefs do not change anything in the real world. To paraphrase Philip K. Dick, "Reality is the stuff that's still there even after you stop believing in it."

I have stated what I think I know based on my past reading and experience.

That's nice. But really, beliefs aren't like silly hats. You can't just flaunt them like they're nothing, and then take them off and put on a new one. In an intellectually open community, like this one, beliefs are something that you present, and then defend.

What about the rest of you; besides the first page, none of you have really made an opinion of your own. You have only rebutted against mine. Be a man (or woman if that be the case) and make a case for yourself and state your opinion on the universe.

Or, how 'bout this: You grow a pair and defend your own worldview.

[yungerkid]

agreed with demonz. and i'll state my own worldview, for the heck of it. Everything is objective. there is only one right answer to any given question, and all questions that exist can be answered. all answers to questions must have and do have proofs of their truth. that's my 3.14 cents worth. edit: oh by the way, about the topic...i believe that the physical universe is ordered and harmonius. everything works according to set laws. those laws all work according to logic.

[ZZ9]

there is only one right answer to any given question, and all questions that exist can be answered.

What is the last digit of pi?

those laws all work according to logic.

Relativity is logical?

[DemonzLunchBreak]

there is only one right answer to any given question, and all questions that exist can be answered.

What is the last digit of pi?

Meaningless question. There's an answer to every meaningful, non-contradictory question. At least, it seems sensible to me to assume there is.

those laws all work according to logic.

Relativity is logical?

Yup.

[yungerkid]

edit@demonz: i see what you mean.

Relativity is logical?

i'm afraid i don't quite understand what you're saying. are you asserting that relativity is logical? if so, then i agree with demonz: yup, it is.

[DemonzLunchBreak]

i don't know that yet, but that question can be answered. there is no such thing as an infinite quantity. and demonz, what do you mean by "meaningless"? i mean, meaningless to who? that's not really a valid answer imho. i stick by my original statement.

"last digit of pi" is meaningless. Pi has no last digit. What color is your square circle? How long did it take you to read that movie? How many times have you slammed a revolving door? Etc.

[yungerkid]

Pi has no last digit.

then it is an infinite quantity. but since we can determine the values of its parts (i.e. 3.1415926535...) we can divide it. which means we can divide infinity. which means infinity is a number.

could you direct me to/give me some more contradictory questions? i'm interested in this.

[ZZ9]

edit@demonz: i see what you mean.

Relativity is logical?

i'm afraid i don't quite understand what you're saying. are you asserting that relativity is logical? if so, then i agree with demonz: yup, it is.

No, I was questioning his statement that everything is logical, by pointing out something that I believed to be highly illogical. ( 0.6 + 0.6 does not normally equal 0.78.)

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

( 0.6 + 0.6 does not normally equal 0.78.)

It's not logical to think in terms of Newtonian physics when you're looking at relativistic situations. Until humans develop a Theory or Everything, I'm sorry, but you'll have to change systems of rules every now and again.

[Brainwasher]

Wow, I haven't been here in a few days and the conversation has stagnated.

[Deathconciousness]

i don't know that yet, but that question can be answered. there is no such thing as an infinite quantity. and demonz, what do you mean by "meaningless"? i mean, meaningless to who? that's not really a valid answer imho. i stick by my original statement.

"last digit of pi" is meaningless. Pi has no last digit. What color is your square circle? How long did it take you to read that movie? How many times have you slammed a revolving door? Etc.

you just compared a basic mathematic theory to an internally inconsistent logical fallacy. How old are you?

[DemonzLunchBreak]

i don't know that yet, but that question can be answered. there is no such thing as an infinite quantity. and demonz, what do you mean by "meaningless"? i mean, meaningless to who? that's not really a valid answer imho. i stick by my original statement.

"last digit of pi" is meaningless. Pi has no last digit. What color is your square circle? How long did it take you to read that movie? How many times have you slammed a revolving door? Etc.

you just compared a basic mathematic theory to an internally inconsistent logical fallacy. How old are you?

Are you talkin' to me?

[blue_tetris]

*drums head against table*

Pi is an irrational number. Because its value cannot be formed as a ratio, if you express the number in base-10, it will not have a "final digit". Any value which has a final digit, in base-10, must be rational; because it is being expressed as a ratio of "x plus y/10^n".

You guys scintillate between topics like wildfire.

[DemonzLunchBreak]

*drums head against table*

Pi is an irrational number. Because its value cannot be formed as a ratio, if you express the number in base-10, it will not have a "final digit". Any value which has a final digit, in base-10, must be rational; because it is being expressed as a ratio of "x plus y/10^n".

You guys scintillate between topics like wildfire.

Uh, yeah. That's what I would have said if I could've even understood what his post was saying.