Do you believe in God(s)?

[NicNac14]

nope.

[乳头的早餐谷物]

Speaking of true intentions, let's say the Christianity is 100% correct, the Bible is the true word of God, and all Christians are doing the right thing. What about Islam or Hinduism (for example)? They must be wrong because they're not compatible with Christianity. They must be spreading lies and deception. What would be the true intentions of these religions?

That right there is enought proof for me that no religon is true.

What, and your belief is, and is somehow above them?

From your perspective they do the same too! :P (Other beliefs spread "lies and deception" without realizing it.) Truth ≠ Sincerity. All in all, there is one set of beliefs, religion or otherwise, that is true when everything's boiled down, no matter how much other sets of beliefs sincerely strive to be true.

Let's assume that natural science is correct. No matter what you say about your non-beliefs and all that gibberish from the previous pages, you ultimately believe that God is academically afar and is dead, at least in a personal way that affects your daily life. You as nonbelievers then shoot down religions' beliefs, if not their sincerity then at least that they're true, don't you? That's not very different from Christianity shooting down Islam and Hinduism for the like reason—in fact as naturalists you shoot down Islam's and Hinduism's declarations of truth too (you simply include Christianity as yet another one).

My personal thoughts are:
At the very least, most religions must be false.
I have never seen anything that makes one stand out as more likely to be true than the others.
So, I have no reason to believe in any.

That lack of belief is in no way comparable to the religious beliefs I'm shooting down.

[Atilla]

..atheists, antitheists, agnostics, deists, etc. all have this in common: God is dead, as revealed by the lifestyle they live by..

...what do you even mean by "dead"? I'm pretty sure that atheists believe gods are non-existent rather than dead. Dead implies that they actually existed and were alive at some point. Christians don't believe Vishnu is dead, they believe Vishnu does not and has never existed.

You as nonbelievers then shoot down religions' beliefs, if not their sincerity then at least that they're true, don't you? That's not very different from Christianity shooting down Islam and Hinduism for the like reason—in fact as naturalists you shoot down Islam's and Hinduism's declarations of truth too (you simply include Christianity as yet another one).

There's a difference. You see, almost everyone is in agreement with atheists about 99% of religions. You're claiming that all these religions are wrong, despite their holy texts inspired by god and all these people who swear they've seen miracles and so on. Then you're claiming that your religion is demonstrably right... for extremely similar reasons to the ones you just dismissed for other religions. It's not unreasonable for someone to say "Well, all these other religions made similar claims and you agreed that they were false, so I don't see why the same reasoning wouldn't apply to yours. Also, it's statistically unlikely that your religion is correct, given that we've agreed that a whole bunch of similar beliefs are incorrect."

The difference between atheists shooting down religious claims, and religious people doing so, is that the arguments against one religion can also be applied to another. They're part of a class of similar beliefs which use similar arguments to support their position; whereas the atheistic position is dissimilar and thus is not undermined by the same arguments. For example, say that a Hindu claims her religion must be right, because many people have prayed to Ganesh and witnessed miracles. Now, a Christian needs to explain that away somehow, since Ganesh doesn't exist, so he suggests that Hindus are mistaking coincidence for miracles. Then the Christian goes on to claim that his religion must be right, because many people have prayed to the Lord and witnessed miracles. It's at this point that the atheist says "You just said that wasn't a valid argument for Hinduism, so you must also be wrong". And the chain stops there, because the atheist isn't going to say "Lo, I prayed to the lack of gods and received a miracle; my lack of religion must be right!" Different arguments have to be used to debunk atheism because it makes different claims, whereas many religions make similar claims in support of their position.

You believe that your agnostic lifestyle is the way to go; you balance in the middle of everything. All the others therefore must be wrong. That's no different than the exclusion Christianity presents. Yours is even MORE dangerous, in fact, because you present your side as scientific, and above religion.

And many religious people present their belief as absolute truth, and above science, and logic, and, well, everything. So... yeah.

Also, I many agnostics don't claim their stance *is* any less an exclusion - they openly claim that other positions are logically flawed because there isn't sufficient evidence to support those positions.

Agnosticism in particular is a personal statement. A militant agnostic is a contradiction in terms. Agnostics don't think that their point of view is correct for all people, simply that they are not qualified to make a statement about the divine. Most agnostics wouldn't say that others cannot possibly be qualified, only that an agnostic is not.

That's not really true, in general. Many agnostics believe that their is insufficient evidence for anyone to make definitive claims about gods; or that making such claims is impossible in principle because of the nature of gods. It's entirely possible to be a militant agnostic. It is true, however, that agnostics don't necessarily claim the position others hold is untenable.

"Most agnostics wouldn't say that others cannot possibly be qualified, only that an agnostic is not."
But aren't you basing your beliefs off of what you know? Why don't you try to learn more, from such people who can possibly be qualified, so that you can be qualified to be able to say definitely whether God or a god exists or not? I do; I always try to keep my mind open to other religions, and explore more into them. Don't you want to? Isn't science the pursuit of knowledge, and didn't you call yourself a man of science?

Many agnostics do. But, you know... I've heard some religious people who think God actually talks to them, or otherwise claim to have personally experienced God. If I keep prayin' to God and never hear Him respond, there's really not much I can do to acquire more information in that regard. From this perspective, other people (allegedly) have information I do not (and don't seem able to acquire), so while they might be justified in their claims I am not.

Yet you said some pages ago that you reject what doesn't fall into science because it's unobservable.

And that's his decision. There are plenty of theistic scientists, and the vast majority of them don't claim that science somehow proves the existence of deities. You can't make a scientific claim about the existence of gods. Whether you decide that this means
1. deities don't exist
2. nobody should make claims about deities
3. everyone can base their beliefs on something else instead
is up to you.

As an analogy, let's say that a footpath cannot be traversed by a car. Demonz decides that he wants to stay in his car and the path is therefore not traversable. Other people can decide to get out of their car and walk if they want - that Demonz doesn't think it's a good idea to do so because of who he is, rather than the nature of the car.

[blue_tetris]

My personal thoughts are:
At the very least, most religions must be false.
I have never seen anything that makes one stand out as more likely to be true than the others.
So, I have no reason to believe in any.

That lack of belief is in no way comparable to the religious beliefs I'm shooting down.

QFE'd. I like the brevity of this.

[Sithmaster]

I can see how is in debate instead of discussion or general

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

I can see how is in debate instead of discussion or general

It's good that we have your approval. Thank you.

Keron,
"I contend that we are both atheists -- I just believe in one fewer god than you do."
"Once you understand why you don't believe in the thousands of other deities of other religions, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours."

[blackson]

Keron,
"I contend that we are both atheists -- I just believe in one fewer god than you do."
"Once you understand why you don't believe in the thousands of other deities of other religions, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours."

QFE'd

<3

[b3njamin]

No I do not. I'm atheist. if I'm truely honest, I think that some believes and 'gods' are made up for power and eventually money

[Condog]

No matter who (if anyone) is correct in their beliefs about a deity or deities and the nature of any afterlife that may or may not exist, at least two-thirds of humanity is wrong.

At the very least. The actual number of people who are wrong in their beliefs about such things may well be significantly closer to 100% than that.

At any rate, no matter what the afterlife is (or is not), it's going to be acutely embarrassing for most of humanity.

[Exüberance]

My personal thoughts are:
At the very least, most religions must be false.
I have never seen anything that makes one stand out as more likely to be true than the others.
So, I have no reason to believe in any.

That lack of belief is in no way comparable to the religious beliefs I'm shooting down.

I am going to roll a 100-sided dice once.
At the very least, most must not come up.
They are all equally improbable, none stands out as being more likely than the other
So, therefore, nothing will come up



...wait, what?

[乳头的早餐谷物]

My personal thoughts are:
At the very least, most religions must be false.
I have never seen anything that makes one stand out as more likely to be true than the others.
So, I have no reason to believe in any.

That lack of belief is in no way comparable to the religious beliefs I'm shooting down.

I am going to roll a 100-sided dice once.
At the very least, most must not come up.
They are all equally improbable, none stands out as being more likely than the other
So, therefore, nothing will come up



...wait, what?

Your analogy is flawed in two ways. The conclusion "nothing will come up" is of course wrong, because in your situation it is impossible for nothing to come up on the die. As far as I'm concerned, it's very possible for no religion to be correct. Secondly, "nothing will come up" isn't analogous to "I have no reason to believe in any". That original conclusion is still perfectly valid for the die situation; if someone asked me to bet on the outcome of such a die roll, well, I might put down a couple of dollars for fun, but I certainly wouldn't invest my entire life into something that unlikely.

[Atilla]

I am going to roll a 100-sided dice once.
At the very least, most must not come up.
They are all equally improbable, none stands out as being more likely than the other
So, therefore, nothing will come up



...wait, what?

I'm going to roll a 100-sided die.
At the very least, most sides will not come up.
They are all equally improbable, none stands out as being more likely than the other.

Which side will come up when I roll the die?

Maestro: "I don't know. I have no reason to believe any particular number will come up."
Exuberance: "It's 49! 49 for sure! I'm betting my life's savings on it!"

Some day, Exuberance will lose all his money playing roulette and realise the folly of his ways.

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

I am going to roll a 100-sided dice once.
At the very least, most must not come up.
They are all equally improbable, none stands out as being more likely than the other
So, therefore, nothing will come up



...wait, what?

I'm going to roll a 100-sided die.
At the very least, most sides will not come up.
They are all equally improbable, none stands out as being more likely than the other.

Which side will come up when I roll the die?

Maestro: "I don't know. I have no reason to believe any particular number will come up."
Exuberance: "It's 49! 49 for sure! I'm betting my life's savings on it!"

Some day, Exuberance will lose all his money playing roulette and realise the folly of his ways.

"The worst part of being an atheist is that when we die I won't be able to tell you 'I told you so!'"

[otters]

You know what's going to happen, Suki?
You're going to die and rot.
Your remains will become fertilizer.
They will fuel a tree.
The tree will be cut down and made into paper.
And they're going to print the Bible on you.

[blue_tetris]

You know what's going to happen, Suki?
You're going to die and rot.
Your remains will become fertilizer.
They will fuel a tree.
The tree will be cut down and made into paper.
And they're going to print the Bible on you.

That's why I'm getting cremated. Not that I'm anti-book in any way. I just hate the possibility my body might assist in the production of something I didn't use during life.

Wait, what?

[otters]

I didn't think I'd ever be telling *you* to learn irony.

[blue_tetris]

I didn't think I'd ever be telling *you* to learn irony.

Wait, what?

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

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-Tsukatu

[Ncouraging]

i dont believe in god(s) i mean technically way back when religion was created, the didnt have advanced science to research evolution, and things like that. i think religion just passed onto today, which makes people to believe in god. but i do not. but i mite make a religion one day cuz it would be pretty cool lol.

[UnknownKirbyMan]

I'm pretty much the same as incluye.

[Banned]

Religion is influence. Rich guy does this. You poor. You imitate rich guy to try to get a higher rank in society.(joking)
Though, religion does actually help many people. It's something for them to believe in, to work for, it might seem weird to us atheists, but from their point of view nothing seems wrong with it.

[otters]

Here's my problem with atheism.

You vehemently contradict and indeed condemn the fact that someone who loves the hell out of you (literally) created you with the utmost care, put you in the world, and gave you the tools to do what you need to do, and instead embrace overwhelmingly the proposition that you're a glorified monkey.

I can't relate with that. I'm sorry.

[Condog]

Here's my problem with atheism.

You vehemently contradict and indeed condemn the fact that someone who loves the hell out of you (literally) created you with the utmost care, put you in the world, and gave you the tools to do what you need to do, and instead embrace overwhelmingly the proposition that you're a glorified monkey.

I can't relate with that. I'm sorry.

The main problem I have with religion is that you blindly believe in a higher power, despite the fact that no real proof has ever been presented to confirm that powers presence. I just can't understand that.

Also,.. love? Don't make me laugh. From what I gather from the Bible, you know, that book you live your life by, God is anything but loving.

[capt_weasle]

Yeah it was Jesus who was all about love. God is fire and brimstone, baby.

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

Here's my problem with atheism.

You vehemently contradict and indeed condemn the fact that someone who loves the hell out of you (literally) created you with the utmost care, put you in the world, and gave you the tools to do what you need to do, and instead embrace overwhelmingly the proposition that you're a glorified monkey.

I can't relate with that. I'm sorry.

If any of that was the case, I'd be hella confused as well.
I'm not going to rant about it now (though I probably have multiple times in the past), but the way I see it is that I don't buy into a superbly nonsensical con that gives me terrible advice on how to live my life, and instead opt to believe sources I find credible and verifiable. "God loves you huggy bunches" is nothing more than an emotional appeal, which means less than nothing to me.