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If I had been alive when Israel was first formed I would have been against it, you can't dispossess a nation of people because of some ancient religious claim. But now the fighting has gone on so long and the issue is so muddied I find it impossible to come to any decision.

I can't condone the terrorism of Hammas, but the military strikes of Israel are much more deadly, I believe them when they say that they try to only target hostiles, but the collateral damage to civilians is terrible. The whole situation has devolved into a revenge driven tit for tat bloodbath and I can't see any solution in the near future.

Peace will only come when both sides are ready to compromise, which will be a long time coming seeing as this latest outbreak of hostilities has gone a long way to destroying the supports of moderates on both sides.

Israel won't stop anytime soon, and that's what is important, not whether they're wrong or right. The way the Israelis are treating civilians, and their lack of humanity, is somewhat disturbing. I think it's perhaps time for the US to stop supporting everything Israel does without thought. Their activities are increasingly worrisome.

However, I don't pretend to be any kind of expert on the subject--I just read the papers. In fact, you've inspired me to go read up on the situation.

Israel is the Quebec of the Middle East if the 1995 referendum had passed.

rennaT wrote:Israel is the Quebec of the Middle East if the 1995 referendum had passed.

I can totally relate to this assessment.



Anyway, as per the initial post: How can you pick a side in this, if you're living in the West? Clearly, it's a situation that involves a compromise and, first and foremost, an enforceable and sustainable ceasefire.

Israel has the ability to exist. Arguing about its "right" to exist confuses the issue. Hell, does the US have the right to exist? It's not our ancestral land.
However, I don't think that part of that right is killing civilians indiscriminately, or violating international law, or killing UN aid workers. Israel's borders have done little but expand since 1947 when they were created; they're not as threatened as they're portrayed to be. Hamas's popularity was waning before Israel invaded. I'm pretty sure that now, it's back up-nice job.

blue_tetris wrote:Anyway, as per the initial post: How can you pick a side in this, if you're living in the West? Clearly, it's a situation that involves a compromise and, first and foremost, an enforceable and sustainable ceasefire.

Sometimes violence is necessary to prevent more violence. Perhaps it would be better for all if Israel, once and for all, asserted itself over the Middle East (or at least a part of it).
I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here, but all the same Israel's complete conquering of the area is no longer an unfeasible scenario.

I don't know / care about who technically has rights to the land.

What I do know is this:


...and for that reason, I'm sort of inclined toward Israel.

(Besides which, Israelis are some major-league badasses. This shit may as well be straight out of Gears of War or something.)

Tsukatu wrote:I don't know / care about who technically has rights to the land.

What I do know is this:


...and for that reason, I'm sort of inclined toward Israel.

(Besides which, Israelis are some major-league badasses. This shit may as well be straight out of Gears of War or something.)

There's little doubt in my mind that Israel would win militarily against the surrounding Palestine--but a lot of folks would die in the process. Additionally, because of their superior numbers in the region, Israel can fight without bringing younger combatants into the battle. Organizations representing a Palestinian state don't really have that choice and pull up troops from the bottom of the barrel (read also: cradle).

It's certainly unexcusable they're using such young reinforcements, but they're in a position where they don't think there's another way to go about winning their battles. Especially considering how the Jews are clearly the superior race, capable of stuffing terrorists' live grenades into their still living bodies during the rapid pace of combat in order to save themselves and the land that God specifically gave to them. It's phenomenal. Seriously, what would you do against a race of such ubermensch? You wouldn't do shit. You'd fellate your own AK47 just to save yourself the time and humility of having it rammed up your ass by the soldiers of Jericho. You'd wish you had an entourage of babies who wouldn't be able to psychologically analyze the severeness of their defeat ready and waiting to form Baby Phalanx Alpha against the IDF.

b_t, I think you may have misinterpreted the drawing....
I assumed it meant that the Palestinians use civilians as shields, whereas the Israelis shield their civilians. This helps explain some of the civilian casualties caused by the Israelis that have been all over the news lately.

flagmyidol wrote:b_t, I think you may have misinterpreted the drawing....
I assumed it meant that the Palestinians use civilians as shields, whereas the Israelis shield their civilians. This helps explain some of the civilian casualties caused by the Israelis that have been all over the news lately.

I interpret everything good forever.

flagmyidol wrote:b_t, I think you may have misinterpreted the drawing....
I assumed it meant that the Palestinians use civilians as shields, whereas the Israelis shield their civilians. This helps explain some of the civilian casualties caused by the Israelis that have been all over the news lately.

Correct.
Yeah, I didn't mean at all that Palestinians encourage their children to throw rocks at tanks. I'm talking about Palestinian terrorists breaking into residential backyards to fire their rockets from and leaving the innocent civilians living there to deal with the return fire.

Tsukatu wrote:

flagmyidol wrote:b_t, I think you may have misinterpreted the drawing....
I assumed it meant that the Palestinians use civilians as shields, whereas the Israelis shield their civilians. This helps explain some of the civilian casualties caused by the Israelis that have been all over the news lately.

Correct.
Yeah, I didn't mean at all that Palestinians encourage their children to throw rocks at tanks. I'm talking about Palestinian terrorists breaking into residential backyards to fire their rockets from and leaving the innocent civilians living there to deal with the return fire.

I was just being generally tangential. The point is that the Jews generally have the upperhand.

I realized that, believe it or not. I think perhaps the word you are looking for is 'facetious'. But it's good that you have such faith in Israel. :)

I think everyone involved is very much at fault. However, I think Israel, with the superior military might, has the primary blame in this situation. Eye-for-eye retaliation is the reason that this war has gone on so long, and a major military strike like the Phase 3 invasion that Israel is planning will bring about massive casualty.

I very much appear with this article that appeared in this weeks The Economist: http://www.economist.com/opinion/displa ... N=75726333

(Yes, I read The Economist.)

It's was the USA that ate shit when they obligated to protect Israel (they did, right?). But that's USA's passion, to be the international cop for anything that is or isn't their problem.

Israelian's did a pretty parasyting thing when they took over Palestina.
It's like that your grandfather went into a restaurant one day, and for 65 years you come again, and you noticed that the table was ocuppied by someone who came before. It wouldn't be really fair to say: "Hey, you got to leave the table, my grandfather was 65 years ago. God says so." The dude calls the waiter (USA) to solve the compromise and, suprisingly, says that the table really does belongs to you. Beside that he gives you a knife to use it if the guy doesn't want to leave the table.

I don't think the Israelis left Israel for 65 years and came back just recently.

Tsukatu wrote:I don't know / care about who technically has rights to the land.

What I do know is this:


...and for that reason, I'm sort of inclined toward Israel.

(Besides which, Israelis are some major-league badasses. This shit may as well be straight out of Gears of War or something.)

Oh shit.

Psst. Hey tunco... hey... shut the fuck up if you don't have anything meaningful to say, okay?
Replying with "lol", "I agree with [user]", "oh shit", "haha", etc., without giving anything meaningful to the topic, is spam. Cut it out, or you'll start accumulating some warns.

If I may,

He deserves the custom title: Thread Resurrecter .

Thank you.