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The idea of this thread is to post about things- books, documentaries, people- that have changed your mind about something you used to believe in fairly strongly, and explain what you believed before and what you changed your mind to.. The bigger the change in opinion, the better. Anecdotes about personal epiphanies or discussions with friends and family are fine, but just personally I'd love to hear about things I can have a look at myself- journal articles, blog posts, magazine articles, fiction, non- fiction, whatever.

This is based partly on Edge's ridiculously interesting annual question (and accompanying book) for 2008: What have you changed your mind about? The link leads to a bunch of answers by a bunch of scientists, a couple of philosophers, and Brian Eno. The subtle difference is that a lot of these guys changed their mind as a lot of their own individual research conflicted with a closely- held theory, whereas here we're mostly talking about ideas other people have sold you on.

Of course, if you're in a position where you've done original research that disproved something you used to believe, that's awesome, and definitely tell us about it.

DON'T talk about things that gave you an opinion on a topic you never had a firm opinion on beforehand (e.g. Tim Flannery's "The Weather Makers" proved to me that climate change is real, when before I wasn't really sure what I thought about it; I never knew how great free trade was until I read Thomas Friedman's "The World is Flat"),
DON'T go for stuff that sold you on something you already suspected (e.g. "Richard Dworkins' "The God Delusion" made me become a much stronger athiest than I used to be), and obviously
DON'T talk about stuff you find really persuasive if it hasn't changed your mind (e.g. "I still believe in gun control, but Lott's "More Guns, Less Crime" is a REALLY convincing counter- argument"; "even if my parents hadn't brought me up as a vegetarian, reading Peter Singer's "Animal Liberation" would have turned me into a vegetarian anyway.)

Discussion about what other people say is completely fine, but keep it civil, keep it fairly brief, and move it to a new thread if it starts dominating the discussion here.

Going from high school to college taught me that not all guys who get drunk near every weekend are douchebags. Actually it just re-emphasized the point that my high school was just full of idiots.

I used to massively hate TF2 (gasp!), but my friend made me play it. And long talks with my grandfather have changed my mind on everything from intellectualism to free will to the future of our economic system.

smartalco wrote:Going from high school to college taught me that not all guys who get drunk near every weekend are douchebags. Actually it just re-emphasized the point that my high school was just full of idiots.

Same. And high school taught me that people are never what they seem to be.

Religion; Metanet.

Kinda agree with incluye on this one. Metanet has changed my mind on a lot of things, moreso on teh way I think, actually. My time here may have been most influential to me for the past couple years.

I used to think I'd hate Dr. Pepper because I was like "eww a pepper soda? What's next, basil?" Then I tried it and I liked it.

Yeah, the most noticeable on for me in gun control and that thread from a couple of weeks ago.

I was reluctant to post this the first time 'round because of your request that we not include things we didn't feel strongly about before, but...
My involvement in this community has done a pants-shittingly outstanding job of shaping my views on various issues. I'm a pretty opinionated person by nature, so I would undoubtedly form opinions about social issues with constant exposure to them, but think I'd have views opposite to those I hold now if I never argued online in the first place. Given my environment, I probably would have my views motivated much more by the media -- opposed to legalization of drugs, institutionalized prostitution, and guns, and, hell, I might even have ended up calling myself an "agnostic" like a ninny. But there's nothing like exhaustively covering the motivations behind and consequences of a particular position to force yourself to think of those issues critically, and I highly value the amount of perspective I believe that's given me.

The only issue I can remember off the top of my head that I shifted suddenly to an extreme is my position on abortion, and what changed my mind was an anonymous article written by a worker in an abortion clinic that was posted up on Pharyngula. I had previously thought that it was super-sketchy and with insufficient justification for what amounted basically to murder, and that it ought to be banned outright except for the direst of circumstances (such as rape, or if the mother would not survive labor), but now I'm strongly on the pro-choice side of the issue. 'Fraid I can't be bothered to find a link to it now, but I'll try to remember to come back when I have the time and motivation to hunt it down.

Tuskatu wrote:and, hell, I might even have ended up calling myself an "agnostic" like a ninny.

Stephen Colbert wrote:Agnostics: Atheists without balls.

Religion; Metanet
Selfishness; Ayn Rand

Tsukatu wrote:and what changed my mind was an anonymous article written by a worker in an abortion clinic that was posted up on Pharyngula. I had previously thought that it was super-sketchy and with insufficient justification for what amounted basically to murder, and that it ought to be banned outright except for the direst of circumstances (such as rape, or if the mother would not survive labor), but now I'm strongly on the pro-choice side of the issue. 'Fraid I can't be bothered to find a link to it now, but I'll try to remember to come back when I have the time and motivation to hunt it down.

Please message me if you find this, I'm interested in reading it.

Blackson wrote:Selfishness; Ayn Rand

Hey, that's a weird one. I think I agree in a limited way.

Faith in the Human Condition; formica and Atramentis.

Metanet > The internet isn't full of perverts and douchebags (even if some of us are)

I have, thanks to the thread on Gun Control as well as Elie Wiesel's Night, changed my political ideology away from libertarian and closer to just somebody who hates representative government.

DemonzLunchBreak wrote:I don't have moments of epiphany so much as I have long, drawn-out periods of argumentation over a single topic where I slowly lose ground and eventually change my mind.

Entirely! I'm looking at you, Tsukatu. (And everyone else who debated, but mostly you.)

Oh, lots of things. I was anti-marijuana until Dave's arguments convinced me (mind you, this was four years ago). I considered myself a socialist until I took an economics course (yes really). I was anti-gun for a long time and I'm not sure at what moment I changed my tune but I think Tsukatu was part of the reason.

The best thing, I think, is that I was a Christian until I decided to read the Bible in detail, which was at the same time my parents had sent me to confirmation classes. All the intense study must have made the illusion fall in on itself, because I've been atheist ever since.

WOAH WHAT? Scythe? Anti-pot? Get outta town.

scythe wrote:Oh, lots of things. I was anti-marijuana until Dave's arguments convinced me (mind you, this was four years ago). I considered myself a socialist until I took an economics course (yes really). I was anti-gun for a long time and I'm not sure at what moment I changed my tune but I think Tsukatu was part of the reason.

The best thing, I think, is that I was a Christian until I decided to read the Bible in detail, which was at the same time my parents had sent me to confirmation classes. All the intense study must have made the illusion fall in on itself, because I've been atheist ever since.

My roommate and I are gonna have to have a chat when he gets back.

scythe wrote:I was anti-marijuana

Surprise.

I read Isaac Asimov's Beginnings, recently, and I'm actually on the last chapter. Before, I was strictly agnostic, with a fairly Christian leaning. Now I'd say that I am ompletely agnostic, but not necessarily athiest. Honestly, that book explain a helluva lot, and in such a way as to allow me to actually understand it. Stars, planets, DNA, RNA, which I had no idea existed until this book, and loads of other things. It's honestly amazing.


Ironically, the person who gave me this book is highly Christian. Like, she's mega-super-Christian, and she's black, so there's tons of loud gospel music constantly being played by or around her. So yeah, that made me chuckle.


Other things have gradually changed my mound as well, like Skyline and his introduction to various electronic musics. And Bory's helped too, getting me into some more abstract forms of hip-hop. Reflecting back on it, I'm amazed at how much music and my own musicality influence me and the others around me. It affects a great deal more than I currently thought. Other things have, too. I've changed my diet, somewhat, for example, and that's changed a few things in my attitude and perspective.


As Techno and those other cool dudes said, Metanet, in general, has changed my train of thought on a lot of things. Whenever someone would make, I think, a completely compelling argument towards a certain thought or person, someone else, with completely different opinions would jump in and say something equally as compelling, if not moreso. So it's helped my debating skills, somewhat, as well as just my general socializing. I can say, for certain, that if Obby hadn't written that two and a half paragraph post on how to talk to girls, I would be very sad and alone right now. Like, for srs.

ＡＬＷＡＹＳ wrote:and she's black, so there's tons of loud gospel music constantly being played by or around her.

I, erm, what?

Blackson wrote:

ＡＬＷＡＹＳ wrote:and she's black, so there's tons of loud gospel music constantly being played by or around her.

I, erm, what?

I say that because, literally, every black christian i know enjoy gospel music. And I mean, like, seriously, enjoy. They have the cassettes in their car and they sing the songs throughout the day, and they encourage me to do the same. My usual reaction is something like <__<.

The only white person to like Gospel music that I have ever interacted with is Kablizzy. I'm not saying that there aren't any white people who like gospel, or that black people only listen to gospel, but, based off of my personal experience, this happens a lot, and the significance in correlation is worth noting in some form, I think.

Hey! Look, guys! Look at some racism above me! Look at it! Loooook!

Edit: motherfuck of course this goes on the next page. Fuck you, forum.