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I sort of just wanted to share this because I've heard so many Christians in the past say when defending their views on slavery or homosexuality and still maintaining that they are "good Christians" because the New Testament and the words of Jesus supersede the Old Testament.

Matthew 17. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Matthew 5. "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

So next time a Christian tells you that stuff you quote from the OT in your arguments isn't valid anymore, throw these verses out.

Or you could tell them to get N and play this map.
http://www.nmaps.net/9789

If I remember correctly, the only place it does say that the Old Testament laws are no longer important is in the Pauline Epistles, which is more or less selective excerpts from some of Paul's flamewars. God and Jesus both repeatedly state their intentions to make the Old Testament laws permanent and to uphold them forever more, and Paul -- a human, and more notably, not God -- is the only one who says they're no longer important.

So I see it going something like this:
Blizz makes a global announcement that he will permaban everyone who doesn't attach an image of an aborted fetus to each of his posts.
People believe Blizz will make good on his threat, so they obey.
Blizz silently leaves. People still attach the images, but start noticing that people who don't are not permabanned.
Blizz decides to come back for whatever reason, with a non-admin account.
Blizz lets everyone know that he is Blizz, proves it, proves that he still has access to his old admin account, and restates that anyone who does not attach the image will be permabanned. Then he leaves again, but with the implication that he'll inevitably return.
In an attempt to retell this, Evil_Sire, who has zero authority whatsoever to speak for Blizz, says that Blizz' point in coming back was to tell everyone that they don't have to attach those images to their posts anymore.
First of all, if Blizz were to come back yet again and see that Evil_Sire's version of history has spread some-crazy-how and become the prevailing understanding of his original order, he would probably be pissed off, and thereafter ban Evil_Sire and everyone who didn't obey the attach-a-fetus rule.
Secondly, any moron can look at the record of what was said and when. Anyone who actually investigates the issue will quickly see that Evil_Sire is way off base, that Blizz only ever reaffirmed the rule and never said a word about relaxing or anulling it.

The problem is that, because Blizz is still gone (or more accurately, he was never here in the first place), he's not here to correct the damage Evil_Sire has done. Because people want to believe what Evil_Sire is saying, because they are too lazy to verify it, and because that's what everyone else believes, they buy into Evil_Sire's version.

I think it's also fair to say that the only things most modern-day Christians know of the Old Testament are watered-down, illustrated versions of Noah's Ark, the story of David and Goliath, Cain and Abel, Sodom and Gommorah, the 10 Commandments, etc.

If the laws of the Old Testament no longer apply does that mean that I can steal, kill and disrespect my parents?

T̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư wrote:If I remember correctly, the only place it does say that the Old Testament laws are no longer important is in the Pauline Epistles, which is more or less selective excerpts from some of Paul's flamewars. God and Jesus both repeatedly state their intentions to make the Old Testament laws permanent and to uphold them forever more, and Paul -- a human, and more notably, not God -- is the only one who says they're no longer important.

So I see it going something like this:
Blizz makes a global announcement that he will permaban everyone who doesn't attach an image of an aborted fetus to each of his posts.
People believe Blizz will make good on his threat, so they obey.
Blizz silently leaves. People still attach the images, but start noticing that people who don't are not permabanned.
Blizz decides to come back for whatever reason, with a non-admin account.
Blizz lets everyone know that he is Blizz, proves it, proves that he still has access to his old admin account, and restates that anyone who does not attach the image will be permabanned. Then he leaves again, but with the implication that he'll inevitably return.
In an attempt to retell this, Evil_Sire, who has zero authority whatsoever to speak for Blizz, says that Blizz' point in coming back was to tell everyone that they don't have to attach those images to their posts anymore.
First of all, if Blizz were to come back yet again and see that Evil_Sire's version of history has spread some-crazy-how and become the prevailing understanding of his original order, he would probably be pissed off, and thereafter ban Evil_Sire and everyone who didn't obey the attach-a-fetus rule.
Secondly, any moron can look at the record of what was said and when. Anyone who actually investigates the issue will quickly see that Evil_Sire is way off base, that Blizz only ever reaffirmed the rule and never said a word about relaxing or anulling it.

The problem is that, because Blizz is still gone (or more accurately, he was never here in the first place), he's not here to correct the damage Evil_Sire has done. Because people want to believe what Evil_Sire is saying, because they are too lazy to verify it, and because that's what everyone else believes, they buy into Evil_Sire's version.

And then Dave comes along and makes a scrapbook of all the aborted fetus pictures.

Manus Australis wrote:If the laws of the Old Testament no longer apply does that mean that I can steal, kill and disrespect my parents?

Don't remember the exact bit, but Jesus says something about summing up the entirety of God's Word with the two laws "Love the Lord with all your heart" and "Love your neighbor as yourself." I don't think that leaves room for parent disrespecting.

...which makes him contradict himself, but yeah, we've seen that all before.

And then there's Deuteronomy 13:

If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

Christians would no doubt argue that Jesus and the New Testament doesn't present a new god, but that excuse doesn't hold when you consider the demand that we must "keep his commandments" which are outlined in the passages immediately following. There's really no room for reinterpretation or a new covenant—if you don't follow the laws, you're doing the wrong thing, and if someone tells you not to follow the laws, you must kill them.

Manus Australis wrote:If the laws of the Old Testament no longer apply does that mean that I can steal, kill and disrespect my parents?

Shouldn't the logical conclusion for Christians to come to be that Moses et al. wandered in the desert believing that there was nothing wrong with thieving, murdering, blaspheming, etc.?

T̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư wrote:If I remember correctly, the only place it does say that the Old Testament laws are no longer important is in the Pauline Epistles, which is more or less selective excerpts from some of Paul's flamewars. God and Jesus both repeatedly state their intentions to make the Old Testament laws permanent and to uphold them forever more, and Paul -- a human, and more notably, not God -- is the only one who says they're no longer important.

So I see it going something like this:
Blizz makes a global announcement that he will permaban everyone who doesn't attach an image of an aborted fetus to each of his posts.
People believe Blizz will make good on his threat, so they obey.
Blizz silently leaves. People still attach the images, but start noticing that people who don't are not permabanned.
Blizz decides to come back for whatever reason, with a non-admin account.
Blizz lets everyone know that he is Blizz, proves it, proves that he still has access to his old admin account, and restates that anyone who does not attach the image will be permabanned. Then he leaves again, but with the implication that he'll inevitably return.
In an attempt to retell this, Evil_Sire, who has zero authority whatsoever to speak for Blizz, says that Blizz' point in coming back was to tell everyone that they don't have to attach those images to their posts anymore.
First of all, if Blizz were to come back yet again and see that Evil_Sire's version of history has spread some-crazy-how and become the prevailing understanding of his original order, he would probably be pissed off, and thereafter ban Evil_Sire and everyone who didn't obey the attach-a-fetus rule.
Secondly, any moron can look at the record of what was said and when. Anyone who actually investigates the issue will quickly see that Evil_Sire is way off base, that Blizz only ever reaffirmed the rule and never said a word about relaxing or anulling it.

The problem is that, because Blizz is still gone (or more accurately, he was never here in the first place), he's not here to correct the damage Evil_Sire has done. Because people want to believe what Evil_Sire is saying, because they are too lazy to verify it, and because that's what everyone else believes, they buy into Evil_Sire's version.

So Paul needs a permaban.

The L Word #1 Fan! wrote:So Paul needs a permaban.

Well, I certainly think that the Second Coming isn't going to be pleased that Paul corrupted His message.

Related:

Worthy of a double-post:

So very extremely relevant.

This stuff makes me sad that I was a Christian.

ＡＬＷＡＹＳ wrote:This stuff makes me sad that I was a Christian.

We all have things we're embarrassed about, especially old opinions we were oh-so-very certain about that turned out to be nonsense. Welcome to being human.

"Welcome to the Religion section of the Politics and Debate forum! At this point, it's just a bunch of people sitting around agreeing with each other."

I was going to make a witty comment about how this forum has become far more of a circlejerk ever since my deconversion. But I think you guys already have it covered.

I'd love to get a Christian up in this thread to defend their archaic holy book and the way that their religion interprets it.

hairscapades wrote:I'd love to get a Christian up in this thread to defend their archaic holy book and the way that their religion interprets it.

They don't exist on this forum anymore. Threads like these drove them away.

SłappyMcGee wrote:

hairscapades wrote:I'd love to get a Christian up in this thread to defend their archaic holy book and the way that their religion interprets it.

They don't exist on this forum anymore. Threads like these drove them away.

Or drove them the other way! Right? Right!?

Whatever, I'm hilarious.

Haha. That was actually pretty good. Props.