Aethiests are the New Movie Villains!

[Rhekatou]

Sad...

[Tanner]

Absolutely hilarious. I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian household and went to a Catholic school until grade 8. I was the only kid that I knew that didn't celebrate Christmas and I was the only person who could defend their position on the subject.

Christmas is, at its very core, a pagan festival. Saturnalia was adopted by early Christians purely out of convenience and has since been overwritten by a religion that flaunts its reveling in the nonsensical at seemingly every possible opportunity. There are parts of the Bible that expressly contradict the timeframe of Christmas. A most integral part (the angels appearing to the shepherds) is contradicted by every other historical source and, also, common sense in that sheep aren't put to pasture in December on account of it's the fucking winter time. It boogles the mind that this farce is so widely accepted.

[SlappyMcGee]

Absolutely hilarious. I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian household and went to a Catholic school until grade 8. I was the only kid that I knew that didn't celebrate Christmas and I was the only person who could defend their position on the subject.

Christmas is, at its very core, a pagan festival. Saturnalia was adopted by early Christians purely out of convenience and has since been overwritten by a religion that flaunts its reveling in the nonsensical at seemingly every possible opportunity. There are parts of the Bible that expressly contradict the timeframe of Christmas. A most integral part (the angels appearing to the shepherds) is contradicted by every other historical source and, also, common sense in that sheep aren't put to pasture in December on account of it's the fucking winter time. It boogles the mind that this farce is so widely accepted.

I never thought that anybody actually thought that Christmas was anything more than a Celebration of his Birth, as opposed to, indeed, his birthday. The convenience of taking the Pagan day does not harm the validity of it as a celebration, in my eyes.

[Rose]

I was embarrassed the entire time I watched this.

On a side note, I celebrate Halloween. I mostly just use it as an excuse to buy multiple-pound bags of candy corn :p

[fawk]

I'm an atheist, and I believe in this song


Tempted to post the link to the trailer on my facebook, but I think some of my friends are Christian. Maybe I should ask them, hmm?

[Tanner]

I never thought that anybody actually thought that Christmas was anything more than a Celebration of his Birth, as opposed to, indeed, his birthday. The convenience of taking the Pagan day does not harm the validity of it as a celebration, in my eyes.

You seem to be underestimating the willfulness of Christians. It is normal to celebrate "the anniversary of the birth of Jesus". It's pretty cut and dry that this isn't just a celebration of a more abstract date, this is taken as the literal anniversary of Christ's birth.

[SlappyMcGee]

I never thought that anybody actually thought that Christmas was anything more than a Celebration of his Birth, as opposed to, indeed, his birthday. The convenience of taking the Pagan day does not harm the validity of it as a celebration, in my eyes.

You seem to be underestimating the willfulness of Christians. It is normal to celebrate "the anniversary of the birth of Jesus". It's pretty cut and dry that this isn't just a celebration of a more abstract date, this is taken as the literal anniversary of Christ's birth.

I thought it was one of those things that Christians conceded behind, like, overwhelming proof. Like when we proved Evolution so they said God designed Evolution.

[Tanner]

That'd be nice. I'd like that.

[otters]

Aethiests

8(

[Rose]

I never thought that anybody actually thought that Christmas was anything more than a Celebration of his Birth, as opposed to, indeed, his birthday. The convenience of taking the Pagan day does not harm the validity of it as a celebration, in my eyes.

You seem to be underestimating the willfulness of Christians. It is normal to celebrate "the anniversary of the birth of Jesus". It's pretty cut and dry that this isn't just a celebration of a more abstract date, this is taken as the literal anniversary of Christ's birth.

I and everyone I know are fully aware that it can't possibly be Christ's literal birthday, and that Christmas was set on that date to provide an alternative to the pagan day. It's kind of like if one of the most popular girls in school throws a party, and then another more popular girl is like "Well I'll throw a bigger and better party on the same day so nobody's coming to your party!" It's stupid, but that doesn't stop us from celebrating anyway.

[Tanner]

I and everyone I know are fully aware that it can't possibly be Christ's literal birthday, and that Christmas was set on that date to provide an alternative to the pagan day. It's kind of like if one of the most popular girls in school throws a party, and then another more popular girl is like "Well I'll throw a bigger and better party on the same day so nobody's coming to your party!" It's stupid, but that doesn't stop us from celebrating anyway.

First off, that's a poor analogy because the reason for the choosing of the date was, as Slappy has already pointed out, it was a marriage of convenience on the part of young Christianity rather than it spiting the already well-established Roman paganism. The weren't so much providing an alternative as being provided one by the Romans.

Secondly, be this rhetoric or not, every Christmas service or mass has been quite explicit about it being, as I've already point out, "the anniversary of the birth of Jesus Christ". Do you think it's unreasonable for me take this tidbit of absurdity at face value from a group that believes in the literal transubstantiation of their deity into bread and wine which they then consume?

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

a group that believes in the literal transubstantiation of their deity into bread and wine which they then consume?

You forgot "(but somehow they don't identify as cannibals)".

[Theodore_owens_^]

a group that believes in the literal transubstantiation of their deity into bread and wine which they then consume?

You forgot "(but somehow they don't identify as cannibals)".

It's not cannibalism because they only pretend they're eating him!

[unoriginal name]

a group that believes in the literal transubstantiation of their deity into bread and wine which they then consume?

You forgot "(but somehow they don't identify as cannibals)".

It's not cannibalism because they only pretend they're eating him!

This is the best Debate post ever.

[Skyling]

Do you think it's unreasonable for me take this tidbit of absurdity at face value from a group that believes in the literal transubstantiation of their deity into bread and wine which they then consume?

Surely you realize it's much more metaphorical than that?

[scythe]

Hm. I'm going to need a razor, a doomsday device, and a white cat named Fluffy.

And one meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellion dollars!

[Tanner]

Do you think it's unreasonable for me take this tidbit of absurdity at face value from a group that believes in the literal transubstantiation of their deity into bread and wine which they then consume?

Surely you realize it's much more metaphorical than that?

I forgive you because I'm pretty sure you've never been to a catholic mass and I want you to completely understand what I'm about to tell you.

When I went to a Catholic school and we went to mandatory mass to receive the Eucharist (of which I didn't partake because I was a sinful Protestant) the teacher discourage the students from chewing the wafer that they received because it was disrespectful to chew the body of Christ. You were supposed to let this cardboardesque wafer dissolve on your tongue until you could swallow it whole so that you did not sacrilegiously rend the body of our Lord. Can I be more plain than this? Shit is fucking crazy as fuck!

[乳头的早餐谷物]

Yeah, it's not a metaphorical thing for those who subscribe to the doctrine of transubstantiation; the bread and wine do literally become the body and blood of Jesus Christ. While we would still perceive them as normal bread and wine, the fundamental substance is supposed to have changed, so eat thy LORD and be blessed:

"Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life" (John 6:54)

[Rose]

Do you think it's unreasonable for me take this tidbit of absurdity at face value from a group that believes in the literal transubstantiation of their deity into bread and wine which they then consume?

Surely you realize it's much more metaphorical than that?

I forgive you because I'm pretty sure you've never been to a catholic mass and I want you to completely understand what I'm about to tell you.

When I went to a Catholic school and we went to mandatory mass to receive the Eucharist (of which I didn't partake because I was a sinful Protestant) the teacher discourage the students from chewing the wafer that they received because it was disrespectful to chew the body of Christ. You were supposed to let this cardboardesque wafer dissolve on your tongue until you could swallow it whole so that you did not sacrilegiously rend the body of our Lord. Can I be more plain than this? Shit is fucking crazy as fuck!

I'm not Catholic, and no Protestant church I've ever been to has ever done/said that. Maybe that's a Catholic thing?

[Tanner]

When I went to a Catholic school and we went to mandatory mass to receive the Eucharist (of which I didn't partake because I was a sinful Protestant) the teacher discourage the students from chewing the wafer that they received because it was disrespectful to chew the body of Christ. You were supposed to let this cardboardesque wafer dissolve on your tongue until you could swallow it whole so that you did not sacrilegiously rend the body of our Lord. Can I be more plain than this? Shit is fucking crazy as fuck!

I'm not Catholic, and no Protestant church I've ever been to has ever done/said that. Maybe that's a Catholic thing?

You've never been to a Protestant church that took communion? Admittedly, the Catholic church has a more literal interpretation of the whole "Blessed Sacrament" thing but that doesn't change the fact that every Protestant communion I've witnessed has been preceded by "this is the body" and "this is the blood".

[Rose]

Actually, currently I don't take communion, because I go to a discussion group instead of the main church service. But when I did go to standard church services, they just stated that it was symbolic.

[smartalco]

It is part metaphorical and part spiritual. I don't think anyone (pending crazy people, there are crazy people in every faction) is literally taking communion thinking they are eating something that has magically been transformed in to flesh. The idea is that you are symbolically taking in christ, and the wafer and wine is the embodiment of him.

Also, it mirrors the last supper, where Jesus said something to the same sort of the whole 'Eat my flesh, drink my blood' thing. No, the 12 did not take a big ol' bite out of Jesus' hand.

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

I'm failing to understand how cannibalism becomes okay when it's symbolic. God, in His infinite wisdom, couldn't come up with a less revolting metaphor for following Christ's example?
The amusing thing to me is how cheerful most Christians I know are about this. Once it becomes the status quo, it's easy to miss that the faith is actually very morbid. The same amount of fixation on blood and death without a religious component would be Not Okay in any other circumstances.

In particular, the fact that Christians symbolize their faith with their leader undergoing a torturous execution confuses the hell out of me.
Consider a parallel situation:
I'm about to be hit by a bus when a total stranger runs in and shoves me out of its path, leaving the bus to kill him, instead. I want to honor him at his funeral.
Acceptable behavior:

• Represent his likeness with the most heartwarming and flattering photo I can find.
• Celebrate his accomplishments and his goals.
• Put a high emphasis on praising his positive qualities, particularly the selflessness and bravery which led him to trade his life for mine.
• Dedicate my life to the pursuit of something meaningful.

Christian behavior:

• Present him to others at his absolute lowest point, putting the focus on the consequences he suffered rather than his personality or his good deeds. Litter the procession with photos of his mangled corpse wrapped around the bus tire.
• Describe his good deeds only to emphasize how great the person was whom I murdered with my negligence.
• Fixate obsessively on the fact that he was killed. Make this the central point of conversation about him, and make sure that others closely associate his name with his death.
• Devote my life to ensuring that everyone knows just how dead he is because of me. Show the photos of the gruesome scene to strangers to show what he was willing to suffer on my behalf. Claim it isn't about me, though.

People sit through this latter kind of ceremony every Sunday, even though they'd be furious if something like it was held for someone they were close to.

Related:
Det Satan Club

[Rose]

I don't know what Christians you've been hanging around, but I (and once again, just about everyone I know) have always focused on what he did while he was alive.

Obviously, photos of Jesus don't exist, but...

- Celebrate his accomplishments and his goals.
- Put a high emphasis on praising his positive qualities, particularly the selflessness and bravery which led him to trade his life for mine.
- Dedicate my life to the pursuit of something meaningful.

All of these are what I've seen most Christians do, much more than focus on his death. If you're just talking about the communion tradition, then...

Also, it mirrors the last supper, where Jesus said something to the same sort of the whole 'Eat my flesh, drink my blood' thing. No, the 12 did not take a big ol' bite out of Jesus' hand.

(I spent minutes trying to word this sentence properly; eventually I just thought "screw it") Like he said, it's metaphorical, and if we don't do what the most prominent figure in our religion told us to do (and the night before he died, no less), how the hell can we consider ourselves followers of said religion?

[Tanner]

Also, it mirrors the last supper, where Jesus said something to the same sort of the whole 'Eat my flesh, drink my blood' thing. No, the 12 did not take a big ol' bite out of Jesus' hand.

(I spent minutes trying to word this sentence properly; eventually I just thought "screw it") Like he said, it's metaphorical, and if we don't do what the most prominent figure in our religion told us to do (and the night before he died, no less), how the hell can we consider ourselves followers of said religion?

This is absurd. You can be dumbstruck by this particular aspect of Christianity all you want (I can hardly say I blame you) but the fact remains that this is doctrine, it's canon, it's believed! I quote the Encyclopedia Britannica article on transubstantiation:

TRANSUBSTANTIATION, the term adopted by the Roman Catholic Church to express her teaching on the subject of the conversion of the Bread and Wine into the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist. Its signification was authoritatively defined by the Council of Trent in the following words: "If any one shall say that, in the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist there remains, together with the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the substance of the Bread and Wine, and shall deny that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the Bread into (His) Body and of the Wine into (His) Blood, the species only of the Bread and Wine remaining - which conversion the Catholic Church most fittingly calls Transubstantiation - let him be anathema." The word Transubstantiation is not found earlier than the 12th century. But in the Eucharistic controversies of the 9th, 10th and 11th centuries the views which the term embodies were clearly expressed; as, for example, by Radbertus Paschasius (d. 865), who wrote that "the substance of the Bread and Wine is efficaciously changed interiorly into the Flesh and Blood of Christ," and that after the consecration what is there is "nothing else but Christ the Bread of Heaven."

I don't see anyone defending a metaphorical interpretation of turning water into wine so why are you defending a metaphorical interpretation of wine into blood? Why are you having such a hard time believing that people still think this? Can you give me a better argument than "The Christians I know..."?