One's Own Identity

[bobaganuesh_2]

So I completely sure about the rest of you, but in Canada we have this holiday on November 11, every year, to "honour" the Canadian soldiers who died "protecting" our country from "evil". The main tradition of this holiday includes wearing a fake poppy flower by pinning in onto your shirt/jacket/whatever so that everyone can see it and recognize your "respect" for the dead.

I was thinking about not wearing the poppy and the negative repercussions that would surely follow. I realized that it was by chance that I'm related to these dead soldiers and elderly veterans, and only through national identity ("being Canadian"). But what about the dead soldiers and/ot elderly verterans who fought in other battles such as the Battle of Bataan, the battle that occured on the Plains of Abraham, or even the Crusades? How come I'm not required to wear an artifical flower commemorating those soldiers? I doubt it has to do with the time frame, otherwise I's feel the need to stick some Arabian cactus into my chest in respect for those who perished in Yemen's current civil war.

I came to the conclusion that I'm not fully responsible for something that I've had no control over. I certainly didn't choose the location where I would be birthed; even though the Canadian culture and lifestyle has shaped my current personality, antics, mindset, etc., I don't think I'm fully responsible for "being Canadian", just as I don't feel fully responsible for having certain physical appearances or artistic tastes (however, in the spirit of determinism, I'm fully capable of "dealing with it"). Therefore, why should I have to wear the poppy at the risk of being scorned by everyone else if I choose not to? As far as I'm concerned, I'm as human as anybody else and despite cultural biases affecting bits of my identity, I try empathize with those that died in the battle of Constantinople or anyone who has suffered from burning diarrhea. Therefore, I should adorn myself with ornaments for every single affliction that has happened to everyone and everything in the universe; or maybe I can merely abstain for wearing decorative things since I can acknowledge that all peoples across all times have experienced suffering and enjoyment in one way or another. Currently this is the conclusion that I'm finding to provide the most appropriate course of action that will align with the the principles I've just stated.

Just because I've "been" pidgeon-holed into a set identity that I've more-or-less accepted, doesn't mean I should hold events or anything particular to the characteristics of this identity superior over happenings or things that are particular to characteristics of other identities that I am not familiar with ("being Canadian" vs "being Tajik"). Like, for sure I will never fully understand what it means to "be Tajik" or "be schizophrenic", but I don't feel it necessary to value being Canadian (and any traditions such as Rememberance Day, or values/beliefs/principles/etc.) over not being Tajik or schizophrenic.

Sorry if I sound redundant, I'm trying to make my arguments as clear as possible.

[Scrivener]

Holidays usually come to be when the leaders come to the conclusion that the people are working too hard. They then seize the first opportunity and blow it out of proportion until the people use some sort of warped logic whereby they decide not to work on that day. As for holidays where we still have to work but are simply honoring somebody(ies), I dunno. They're mostly symbolic for all similar "afflictions," as you call them, so one holiday can suffice for all the people you want to honor.

[scythe]

Celebrate your holiday with some real Papaver somniferum. Guaranteed success.

I think, really, that you have better things to worry about. People feel empathy for people the more they interact with them; Canadians spend most of their time interacting with other Canadians, and so they come to identify with that group and they do things in order to reinforce their sense of personal identity. It's a natural human tendency, and however irrational, it's not much worse than any other.

The problem comes in when people decide to kill one another over the idea.

[Tanner]

Nationalism is silly. Welcome to the ranks of the enlightened.

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

Traditions and holiday practices are fucking stupid. Many of them have even become mockeries of the original reasons they were celebrated. The only reason your culture would celebrate some events and not others are accident of birth, and this is by no means a decent reason. The practices of these remembrance holidays so bizarre as to make one wonder how people could think they were the best means to celebrate the holiday. You will never find a reason to celebrate these ridiculous holidays by their ridiculous practices apart from the fact that the majority of your culture is doing so.
In other words, I think you and I see eye to eye on this.

Nonetheless, I found it's best to shut up and wear the stupid flower, eat the stupid turkey, decorate the stupid tree, dress up like a tard and yell "bloogie-woogie-woo", etc. It's not worth it to be some kind of counter-culturalist revolutionary, because that would require taking the cause seriously, which it is far from deserving.
I'd like these stupid traditions to go away, but it'd be ridiculous to take an active stance against it (and the sheeple would unify mindlessly against you if you did anyway). Instead, I settle for begrudgingly doing the bare minimum to follow the required practices and never encourage anyone or organize anything for myself. I put my focus on enjoying the festivities for their own sake, with the silly motivations for them completely aside, because they usually feature alcohol and pretty girls.

In the long term, holidays disappear because people stop caring about them and taking them seriously, not because of activism like refusing to wear a flower.
So wear the stupid flower.

[SkyPanda]

Identity is only one reason to pay respects to a particular group of soldiers in a particular war. Other good reasons might be that you or your friends are related to them, or that you directly enjoy the results of their sacrifice, or that they had you (as the future generation) in mind when they threw down their life, and so on.

On the topic of stupidness of national holidays, Rememberance day is about as least stupid as they come.

[SlappyMcGee]

There's a great quote at the beginning of Breakfast of Champions;

“I will come to a time in my backwards trip when November eleventh, accidentally my birthday, was a sacred day called Armistice Day. When I was a boy, all the people of all the nations which had fought in the First World War were silent during the eleventh minute of the eleventh hour of Armistice Day, which was the eleventh day of the eleventh month.

“It was during that minute in nineteen hundred and eighteen, that millions upon millions of human beings stopped butchering one and another. I have talked to old men who were on battlefields during that minute. They have told me in one way or another that the sudden silence was the voice of God. So we still have among us some men who can remember when God spoke clearly to mankind.

“Armistice Day has become Veterans’ Day. Armistice Day was sacred. Veterans’ day is not.

“So I will throw Veterans’ Day over my shoulder. Armistice Day I will keep. I don’t want to throw away any sacred things.

“What else is sacred? Oh, Romeo and Juliet, for instance.

“And all music is.”

[smartalco]

eat the stupid turkey

As totally and completely meaningless as it may be, Thanksgiving is still fucking awesome because I can stuff myself with turkey and mashed potatoes and pumpkin pie at pretty much any location in the US. Don't be dissin' my turkey.

In general though, I agree with the theme of this thread. Which is why I treat halloween as simply an excuse to eat more candy.

[Kablizzy]

Nonetheless, I found it's best to shut up and wear the stupid flower, eat the stupid turkey, decorate the stupid tree, dress up like a tard and yell "bloogie-woogie-woo", etc. It's not worth it to be some kind of counter-culturalist revolutionary, because that would require taking the cause seriously, which it is far from deserving.
I'd like these stupid traditions to go away, but it'd be ridiculous to take an active stance against it (and the sheeple would unify mindlessly against you if you did anyway). Instead, I settle for begrudgingly doing the bare minimum to follow the required practices and never encourage anyone or organize anything for myself. I put my focus on enjoying the festivities for their own sake, with the silly motivations for them completely aside, because they usually feature alcohol and pretty girls.

In the long term, holidays disappear because people stop caring about them and taking them seriously, not because of activism like refusing to wear a flower.
So wear the stupid flower.

I love you, man. When are we hangin' out? I'm bringing the Kvas. Anyway, most societal norms that we have are stupid. Most things we do as humans are stupid. But we do them because it's something to do. You've got a good head on your shoulders, your logic is solid, but oftentimes, logic can't fix what's wrong. Logic hasn't saved either of my perfectly-executed relationships, because sometimes, SHIT JUST DON'T MAKE NO SENSE. You've reached a solid conclusion, you've backed it up with an impeccable argument, now just wear the damn flower. It'll make you look better, and sometimes, you have to manipulate people to get what you want.

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

I love you, man. When are we hangin' out? I'm bringing the Kvas.

KVAS.
☭_☭

[Rose]

eat the stupid turkey

As totally and completely meaningless as it may be, Thanksgiving is still fucking awesome because I can stuff myself with turkey and mashed potatoes and pumpkin pie at pretty much any location in the US. Don't be dissin' my turkey.

In general though, I agree with the theme of this thread. Which is why I treat halloween as simply an excuse to eat more candy.

You don't need an excuse to eat more candy :D

In regards to the OP, is it really that much of an inconvenience to wear the flower? I would think that by looking out of place and giving the impression that you don't support the holiday (which may not be true, but people may perceive it that way), you'd end up with more problems by not wearing the flower than you would by wearing it. It's not like you have to wear ankle weights or something; just put the flower on for one day and be done with it.

[Tanner]

In regards to the OP, is it really that much of an inconvenience to wear the flower? I would think that by looking out of place and giving the impression that you don't support the holiday (which may not be true, but people may perceive it that way), you'd end up with more problems by not wearing the flower than you would by wearing it. It's not like you have to wear ankle weights or something; just put the flower on for one day and be done with it.

Congratulations on completely misunderstanding everything so thoroughly. You really don't mess around, do you?

[unoriginal name]

In regards to the OP, is it really that much of an inconvenience to wear the flower? I would think that by looking out of place and giving the impression that you don't support the holiday (which may not be true, but people may perceive it that way), you'd end up with more problems by not wearing the flower than you would by wearing it. It's not like you have to wear ankle weights or something; just put the flower on for one day and be done with it.

Congratulations on completely misunderstanding everything so thoroughly. You really don't mess around, do you?

It's sort of amazing. Like a train wreck.

[otters~1]

*failed to find any Google images linking Kvas and trainwrecks*

*surprised*

[Rose]

In regards to the OP, is it really that much of an inconvenience to wear the flower? I would think that by looking out of place and giving the impression that you don't support the holiday (which may not be true, but people may perceive it that way), you'd end up with more problems by not wearing the flower than you would by wearing it. It's not like you have to wear ankle weights or something; just put the flower on for one day and be done with it.

Congratulations on completely misunderstanding everything so thoroughly. You really don't mess around, do you?

Rather than being a jackass, care to explain how?

...Nah, you know what, forget it. I'm out of friends on this forum anyway. Fuck you all.

[squibbles]

In regards to the OP, is it really that much of an inconvenience to wear the flower? I would think that by looking out of place and giving the impression that you don't support the holiday (which may not be true, but people may perceive it that way), you'd end up with more problems by not wearing the flower than you would by wearing it. It's not like you have to wear ankle weights or something; just put the flower on for one day and be done with it.

Congratulations on completely misunderstanding everything so thoroughly. You really don't mess around, do you?

Rather than being a jackass, care to explain how?

...Nah, you know what, forget it. I'm out of friends on this forum anyway. Fuck you all.

I still heart maxson. :/

[Amadeus]

What smartalco said, if you asked people about thanksgiving or Halloween most wouldn't give a shit about pilgrims and Nordic holidays, most holidays have just become an excuse to have a good time with friends or families. As for veterans, no matter how dumb nationalism may be, that doesn't take away from the fact tens of millions of men gave their lives so we're not living in the Third Reich right now. Which is why Veterans Day might be a joke but honoring heir sacrifices which benefit us isn't.

[SlappyMcGee]

In regards to the OP, is it really that much of an inconvenience to wear the flower? I would think that by looking out of place and giving the impression that you don't support the holiday (which may not be true, but people may perceive it that way), you'd end up with more problems by not wearing the flower than you would by wearing it. It's not like you have to wear ankle weights or something; just put the flower on for one day and be done with it.

Congratulations on completely misunderstanding everything so thoroughly. You really don't mess around, do you?

Rather than being a jackass, care to explain how?

...Nah, you know what, forget it. I'm out of friends on this forum anyway. Fuck you all.

«Does that mean you are finally leaving?

[otters~1]

It's a wonder we ever get any new members.

[SlappyMcGee]

It's a wonder we ever get any new members.

I love the new members. They love the ninja game and mostly want to contribute. I hate old assholes who go around arguing about everything.

The oldest stereotype in the book: I'm a self-loathing administrator.

[scythe]

It's a wonder we ever get any new members.

Far as I'm concerned, you're a new member.

[smartalco]

The oldest stereotype in the book: I'm a self-loathing administrator.

Stereotypes exist for a reason you know.

And that reason is purely for guys like me to come along and say that whenever they are mentioned.

Even though most stereotypes are true.

[乳头的早餐谷物]

What's that angry-limbless-duck-looking thing the bear is holding?

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

What's that angry-limbless-duck-looking thing the bear is holding?

That would be a traditional Russian ladle.

[Kablizzy]

...Nah, you know what, forget it. I'm out of friends on this forum anyway. Fuck you all.

I love how this plus the first quote in his signature ==== hilarious!