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Note: This is NOT intended to be a thread debating the ethical issues of piracy. I just couldn't think of a better topic title.

Note 2: I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in General Discussion. If a mod feels that this goes better in GD, then go ahead.

Now then: read this.

I'm not sure whether to be concerned. One of the four ISPs listed is Verizon, which I use. Is this something that downloaders should be worried about, or is this just another futile attempt by the companies to make even more money?

Probably not much. It's not like they're getting any better at detection, they're just circumventing a legal system which they had previously been abusing. It's basically a reaction to the fact that judges have lately been hostile towards the RIAA and its interests.

Since New Zealand is (I assume) not mentioned a lot in American news, it is probably not common knowledge that here you can have your internet cut off by your provider if they catch you torrenting large amounts of content. Suffice to say, I don't know anyone that's had their internet cut off yet; even heavy torrenters, so I think you're safe.

This will end up hurting more innocent people than otherwise. Given the amount of American people that have little idea about wifi security, most smart torrenters or pirates will just find an open connection or use aircrack, and use someone else's connection anyways. Since it's not law enforcement, just emails then service cutoffs, people are going to get pissed when they start losing their internet for no apparent reason. And actual filesharers can just clear a password, leave it open with wifi pineapple or something running, then just collect data, share, and claim that it was a neighbor when the ISP contacts them, and change their MAC.

I couldn't find the list of ISPs, where did you find yours?

Rhekatou wrote:This will end up hurting more innocent people than otherwise. Given the amount of American people that have little idea about wifi security, most smart torrenters or pirates will just find an open connection or use aircrack, and use someone else's connection anyways. Since it's not law enforcement, just emails then service cutoffs, people are going to get pissed when they start losing their internet for no apparent reason. And actual filesharers can just clear a password, leave it open with wifi pineapple or something running, then just collect data, share, and claim that it was a neighbor when the ISP contacts them, and change their MAC.

We have that problem here... although when I say problem, I mean that loosely, since the problem is (at its roots) simply caused by idiocy. If you leave your internet unprotected and get mad when your internet is cut off, then you should actually be thankful that your neighbours weren't malicious enough to install keyloggers on your computer via the network. It really isn't that hard to put a password on it; even a simple one. (After all, if anyone's going to try and hack your password, it doesn't really matter how complicated it is; they'll just keep going until they get it). As for leaving it unprotected and claiming it was your neighbours downloading things... When a gang comes a knocking for their brick of heroin that went missing, if it's sitting on your couch, doesn't matter who you blame; you one dead bitch.

Universezero wrote:We have that problem here... although when I say problem, I mean that loosely, since the problem is (at its roots) simply caused by idiocy. If you leave your internet unprotected and get mad when your internet is cut off, then you should actually be thankful that your neighbours weren't malicious enough to install keyloggers on your computer via the network. It really isn't that hard to put a password on it; even a simple one. (After all, if anyone's going to try and hack your password, it doesn't really matter how complicated it is; they'll just keep going until they get it). As for leaving it unprotected and claiming it was your neighbours downloading things... When a gang comes a knocking for their brick of heroin that went missing, if it's sitting on your couch, doesn't matter who you blame; you one dead bitch.

Way to make the issue about 70x shallower than it actually is.

What if I'm running a TOR exit node on my network (people shouldn't be using TOR for torrenting but what can you do?)? What if I'm an old man who wants to have internet because email is the only way his grandchildren will talk to him any more? What if I'm a ex-convict who just got out after being in prison for 10 years and I have a vague understanding of what a computer is but the last time I actually saw one they were giant boxes with tiny green screens but I need the internet because that's how my parole papers get filed?

The best thing about the internet is that it connects people from all walks of life. Making it potentially criminal for people who are less technically inclined to connect to the internet is the worst fucking idea ever.

You're blaming the victim here, Universezero.

I find it really odd that big companies¹ are throwing so much money at this problem. Far be it from me to be an unbiased arbitrator in this particular scenario (I'm not) but I note the two differing strategies.

On one hand you have really big corporations¹ hamming it up about the potential amount of money they are going to lose and their solution is to throw more and more money at the problem on the slight chance that more money will be earned by the end of it. You have the entertainers and artists who file a 'first thought of, first served" to the patent office as if anyone couldn't always replicate someone's brain matter. (DNA Copyright Laws coming to a dystopian¹ reality show near you)

On the other hand as long as someone has created a device there is always a way to obtain the information for said device, or safe, or bits of data wherein I suppose mathematics could also be copyrighted¹. (I don't think Isaac Newton minds² too much) Nearing much closer to post-scarcity than I could have anticipated, we have people on this side who would give everyone everything they want from nearly nothing. The only thing really holding them back is a more efficient energy gathering system. (A whole universe of transfinite things?)

That said even if I did agree with ISP companies¹ I would not be going Minority Report³ on your asses.

¹ See 1984
² See Modern Calculus
³ See this please?

EDIT: Oh spoke too soon. I just looked up gene patents, we are fucked.

Duchess of Awesome wrote: What if I'm running a TOR exit node on my network (people shouldn't be using TOR for torrenting but what can you do?)? What if I'm an old man who wants to have internet because email is the only way his grandchildren will talk to him any more? What if I'm a ex-convict who just got out after being in prison for 10 years and I have a vague understanding of what a computer is but the last time I actually saw one they were giant boxes with tiny green screens but I need the internet because that's how my parole papers get filed?

You're blaming the victim here, Universezero.

That's because if you can set up a wireless network, you can add simple password for that network as well. If you can't even do that, then you "have what's coming to ya". After a certain amount of negligence on the victim's part it's their fault.

As for the grandfather and the parolee, if they REALLY have that little understanding of computers, it's unlikely they have a wireless modem in the first place.

Duchess of Awesome wrote:You're blaming the victim here, Universezero.

I apologise. It's just that I have a problem with people who are less able with me than computers. And when I say problem, I mean that I hate them on a personal level. I know. I'm not well.

jinxed_07 wrote:

Duchess of Awesome wrote: What if I'm running a TOR exit node on my network (people shouldn't be using TOR for torrenting but what can you do?)? What if I'm an old man who wants to have internet because email is the only way his grandchildren will talk to him any more? What if I'm a ex-convict who just got out after being in prison for 10 years and I have a vague understanding of what a computer is but the last time I actually saw one they were giant boxes with tiny green screens but I need the internet because that's how my parole papers get filed?

You're blaming the victim here, Universezero.

That's because if you can set up a wireless network, you can add simple password for that network as well. If you can't even do that, then you "have what's coming to ya". After a certain amount of negligence on the victim's part it's their fault.

As for the grandfather and the parolee, if they REALLY have that little understanding of computers, it's unlikely they have a wireless modem in the first place.

That's not true at all. Wireless modems are standard issue from most ISPs at this point. Many of them will either put leave the default password on it (not even a little bit secure), put the customer's phone number as the password (barely secure at all) or just leave it open. Many of them still use WEP as well which is easily crackable. The users we're talking about here don't have the know-how to log into their router and change the password and the type of legislation you're considering here would, potentially, criminalize them for it.