Metanet's Team Fortress 2 Thread!

[T3chno]

Nice graph, slaps.

No wonder I've lost interest in the game now. The rate at which they come out is faster too, not just the amount.

[Tanner]

Best graph, Slaps.

[a happy song]

I get where you guys are coming from, but the core game is still there under the piles of hats.

And hats aren't that heavy...

OR

Hats are easy. Hats are models and skins. Aside from the Poly Set Hats, every hat is purely cosmetic. The weapons are more than that, obviously, and require much more work to fit them into the game. So obviously there are going to be more hats and cosmetics as they can churn those out WHILE they're working on other aspects.

The trading system was promised for ages. I bet most of you wanted it way-back-when. Now it's here it has caused a stir, but, as long as valve don't concentrate on cosmetics in the future, it's simply a stop-gap and a fun one.

Years of playable content Versus a fraction of that time devoted to cosmetics does not = worth a fuss.

If valve continue like this then sure, I will get the beef, but for now the core game is still there and we've all had much more than the initial payment we invested in the game given back.

[smartalco]

New theory! Valve is actively trying to ruin the game so that people stop playing it so they can cut support without looking bad!

[SlappyMcGee]

But atob, sets are actually giving you bonuses for those cosmetic items. They affect the balance of the game (because they are universally positive bonuses, and because for the game to be balanced, the weapons would need to be balanced independant of that set.)

It indicates to me that however fun you find TF2, it`s not balanced, and that takes a way the competitive and (for me) fun elements of it.

[heatwave]

Hey! I found a name tag!
Renamed my "Your Eternal Reward" to "Your Internal Reward."

edit: huh. my 440th post is in the TF2 thread. ( http://store.steampowered.com/app/440/ )

[a happy song]

The bonuses are in no way game breaking. They're balanced by the fact that the items you need to take are less effective than the items you['re giving up.

They are in no way universally positive.

Scattergun meatshot Scout is always going to be more deadly in the hands of a pro than a Milkset scout. The Shortstop is fun, but scout is not a ranged class. He's built for up close and personal hit and run.
Snaggletooth gives ok team support, but no headshots is a real expense.
Fez unclock decrease is nice, but giving up disguises is horrid.
+10% run is more than balanced by +10% boolet vulnerability.
Softcap bonus is useless.

Valve were really smart with these.

[heatwave]

... but giving up disguises is horrid.

It's sooo worth it in my opinion. Getting your first disguise becomes significantly harder, but once you've got it you're nearly invincible, especially when used along with the dead ringer.

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

I think I've pinpointed the element of the game that made me stop enjoying it:
As soon as I need to (or if the game highly encourages me to, or if I'd only be penalizing myself if I didn't, or if I'd be a fool not to) put effort into managing some totally tangential aspect of the game, it feels more like I'm working at the game rather than turning to it for temporary entertainment. Investing myself in a game makes me feel downright silly, and to be honest, disappointed with myself.
The first time I realized I was staring at the icons in my inventory and considering for an extended period of time my options for crafting items, I knew the game was no longer for me.

[SlappyMcGee]

The bonuses are in no way game breaking. They're balanced by the fact that the items you need to take are less effective than the items you['re giving up.

They are in no way universally positive.

Scattergun meatshot Scout is always going to be more deadly in the hands of a pro than a Milkset scout. The Shortstop is fun, but scout is not a ranged class. He's built for up close and personal hit and run.
Snaggletooth gives ok team support, but no headshots is a real expense.
Fez unclock decrease is nice, but giving up disguises is horrid.
+10% run is more than balanced by +10% boolet vulnerability.
Softcap bonus is useless.

Valve were really smart with these.

I don't understand how you can argue that the game is balanced if certain weapons only become balanced in specific sets. If these sets did not exist, by your reasoning, these weapons would be less good in congress. That's fine, that's true about a lot of weapon combinations in the game. The problem is that these weapons must be individually balanced to other weapons, not balanced to sets.

It is a really complex soup of game balance that I sincerely doubt the developers understand. Creating weapons that are less good than their slotsakes and then balancing them by saying you should use them in congress with other weapons to balance them is not game balance; it's more likey than not what smartalco suggested; fuck this game, let's make more money and abandon it.

[a happy song]

The entire point of the set bonus is to give a set of alternative slightly underpowered weapons a buff enough to use. And it works. The set items are supposed to be used with the hats. That's the entire point of them.

The hats are /very/ easy to obtain, and you can trade the set hat you craft or buy (can buy them on the market for 3 refined in minutes) 1:1 wiith any other when you want to switch up.

Plus, unless you're playing competitively, it really doesn't matter. Public server games can be played with any weapon in any combination and you can enjoy the thing without too much worry.

The only weapons that don't UP are the pyro's, which is why he has an inherent negative attribute attached.

The developer's know exactly what they're doing.

[SlappyMcGee]

Well that's great for you but my graph is fucking true and I hate the game and there is nothing you can do to change my mind

[bufar]

Nobody's denying that they're making more hats. But given the huge amount of fan-made hats, they seem pretty easy to crank out (I could be wrong; I've never tried). Meanwhile, nobody's suggested a way that they balance all the weapons. People just complain about the new ones whenever they come out. I totally understand this sentiment (Bodyshot-only sniping? Really?) but it's not a game-breaker for me. If some guy wants to blow $20 for sentry resistance he can be my guest.

[a happy song]

there is nothing you can do to change my mind

I was never interested in trying.

[SlappyMcGee]

there is nothing you can do to change my mind

I was never interested in trying.

If you are not trying to change people's minds in an argument, you should probably save both of your times and not post.

[a happy song]

there is nothing you can do to change my mind

I was never interested in trying.

If you are not trying to change people's minds in an argument, you should probably save both of your times and not post.

That's not what I was interested in. I was simply interested in offering a counter point for anyone reading.

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

That's not what I was interested in. I was simply interested in offering a counter point for anyone reading.

Now here's a man who's well familiar with the point of a debate.
The point of the debate isn't to convince your opponent; it's to convince the audience. Ideally, you should debate people who will bring up questions that the audience will have in mind so that you can crush them without triggering that defensiveness which would otherwise just entrench them in their position.

[SlappyMcGee]

Sorry, you're right, atob. I just be making a bunch of foolish points all morning.

That said, I think that you chose to respond to my obviously ironic post is a little sad.

And also audience, i have graphs

[Tanner]

And also audience, i have graphs

I know you're being silly again but I really am naturally inclined to repose myself on the side of the fence that has graphs.

[heatwave]

atob needs to fight back with some infographics.

[a happy song]

I'm not fighting man, I'm wearing hats and taking names.

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

Someday, someone out there is going to make a map called fashionshow, and it's going to be popular.

[bobaganuesh_2]

That's not what I was interested in. I was simply interested in offering a counter point for anyone reading.

Now here's a man who's well familiar with the point of a debate.
The point of the debate isn't to convince your opponent; it's to convince the audience. Ideally, you should debate people who will bring up questions that the audience will have in mind so that you can crush them without triggering that defensiveness which would otherwise just entrench them in their position.

Exactly. That is the reason I am browsing this thread, because frankly I need to whether I'll get my money's worth out of the load of Steam games that I'll be buying in late December.

[SlappyMcGee]

That's not what I was interested in. I was simply interested in offering a counter point for anyone reading.

Now here's a man who's well familiar with the point of a debate.
The point of the debate isn't to convince your opponent; it's to convince the audience. Ideally, you should debate people who will bring up questions that the audience will have in mind so that you can crush them without triggering that defensiveness which would otherwise just entrench them in their position.

Exactly. That is the reason I am browsing this thread, because frankly I need to whether I'll get my money's worth out of the load of Steam games that I'll be buying in late December.

Well, even though I am con, this game is like 2.50$. You should buy it.

[heatwave]

Today was a good day.
I now have:
The Brass Beast
The Warrior's Spirit
The Claidheamohmor
The Loch-n-Load (all you demospam haters will love this)

and I got three new achievements. woo hoo!