N v1.5 Poll: Small Changes

[raigan]

Unfortunately, v1.5 will almost certainly break all existing replays; this is an inevitability if we're going to fix e.g the collision glitches.

However, if we're taking this step, we could try some other small changes that we've always wanted to make. For example: being shot by chaingun drones or chased by chaser drones is currently *very* random.. we'd like to make this more predictable/consistant.

We're not going to drastically alter anything, and we'll be taking great pains to ensure that the feel/physics is identical, however we'd like to know how open you are to small changes. (You can assume, of course, that we like how they turn out -- otherwise we'll scrap them!)

[Izzy]

Renaming it to v2.1 will do :D

[Universezero]

I'm going to say no; I think small things such as bounceblock double jumping and corner kicks are essential little glitches that make n that much harder to master.

[ENT474]

As long as it's nothing to do with the physics (double bounceblockjumps, etc.) Actually, I quite like the chaingun randomness, allows for more dodgings.

[faemir]

I think it depends on which quirks you want to change, as others have said. I'm guessing a '1.4 classic mode' would be too troublesome, but on the whole I like things like double bounceblock jumping, corner jumps etc.

[TheRealOne]

If all of the existing demos are going to be broken then I suppose you can make whatever changes you want as longs as you don't change the physics ie. corner jumps, bounce block triples, etc. Also I quite like the randomness of the the chain guns.

Personally I would rather the game play remain the same and demos unbroken. So many of us, especially the highscorers, have spent so much time learning how to play THIS game, we don't want to have to learn to play another. So many of the maps on NUMA are built around certain glitches and such. It would really suck to all the sudden have 200,000 maps unplayable, or not play the way they were intended.

I can't really say much more unless I knew what the changes were going to be and I wouldn't expect you guys to report exactly every change you plan to make to us seeing as it is your game and we are just fans of it, but please tread carefully when making these changes because as is this game is awesome, not that it can't be improved.

Also could you guys please clear the hackers off the boards while we wait for v1.5. I sent you guys a list of all of the hackers in an email about a week ago, I can resend it if you need it.

[aids]

Honestly, chaingun randomness is not a broken thing. It (along with the other 'glitches') is what makes N such a beautiful game. You have to play the game a lot to truly realize how essential they are. If you change that, highscorers will need to completely reevaluate their gameplay. They won't be able to do the same tricks or use the same routes. If you're going to change them, at least keep a "v1.4 classic" mode so that I don't spend my night crying into my pillow how unfair it is, that I need to change instead of the game.

[otters~1]

This is a question I'm especially glad to hear you ask. I know that many of us consider chaingun inconsistency a good thing, along with the various one-way glitches, to say nothing of double bounce block jumping and a few game mechanics that aren't really considered glitches anymore. But off the top of my head, something negative that could be changed for the better is walljumping off of trap doors.

So, I guess the answer to your poll is, depends what parts of the game you want to change. (Like, any thoughts on updating the level editor? There wasn't anything about that specifically in the blog or the thread.)

[Pheidippides]

I guess this sorta answers the question I posed over in the actual v1.5 thread about backwards compatibility. I think a lot of players are going to want backwards compatibility, so if the small changes come at the expense of this, it might as well be v2.0. Since v1.5 is the goal, I'd be against changing the physics and glitches. If, however, you guys find that the small changes you're trying out will vastly improve the game, slap a 2.0 on it and I'll still be a happy camper. I voted Bad Idea, though.

[player_03]

I personally support changing the physics in 1.5, even without changing the number to 2.0 (though, given the time since the last update and the scale of the proposed changes, that makes sense too). 1.4 would still be available, and people could use it to watch old demos and play old glitch maps and DDAs.

[origami_alligator]

So long as gravity pull stays the same and various mechanics that, when executed correctly, allow the player more choices to move around with the ninja are not touched I'd be fine with it. If you're changing collisions to increase movement ability for the player then I'm sure there would be no complaints.

[lord_day]

I do hope you don't remove oneway glitches! Things like that are awesome. I am all for removing the 'stuttering' ninja on slopes/curves however.

[Vyacheslav]

Add a few little altercations and all is set for the time being.

[squibbles]

Yeah, as everyone else has said, I think the only thing that comes to mind that could use changing is that little stutter. Everything else, the bounceblock jumps, the chaingun randomness, the magic drone avoidance, it all seems very...niche. The fact that you can pull the most amazing moves out of nowhere, without really needing much skill is really quite charming I think, and I know that I would be saddened if I never got to dodge 3 firing chainguns by jumping on a launchpad again.

And yeah, the one way and door glitches add so much to the game. Taking them out would be counter intuitive, I think. I'm voting no, but I would like to see that stutter removed.

[Kablizzy]

Boy, I dunno. I'd like to say "Yes, change it all," but I sorta like how Chaser Drones sometimes "refuse" to chase you, or how you can get lucky and dodge a hail of bullets. I kinda like that you can't place one-ways facing down because you can bug them out and jump past them. Not being able to walljump off trap doors or One-ways is an integral part of a lot of maps and gives a surface that you can't just shoot up. Double-jumping off bounce-blocks is a part of the game; Cornerjumps are a part of the game now. All of these glitches are a part of how the game functions and works, and here's the important part - Unless you have a reason to fix the bugs that outweighs their current usefulness, do not fix the bugs.

Edit: Hell, I even like the stutter now. It's a part of the game. Sure, it's annoying, but it's a part of the game. I'm voting full no, because even the stutter adds to the complexity and necessary skill level of the game, and just like dying 3000 times, sometimes it's f-f-f-f-f-f-fun to stutter.

[unoriginal name]

Blizz, as usual, is dead on. I think I still miiiiiiiiight like the stuttering fixed, but otherwise everything is great as is.

[PALEMOON]

I think you should keep everything but the slope-stutter, myself. Everything else just adds so much to the gameplay of the game it would feel really different in a bad way if removed.

edit: maybe it would be possible to make wall-sliding on oneways and trapdoors easier?

[TheRealOne]

Boy, I dunno. I'd like to say "Yes, change it all," but I sorta like how Chaser Drones sometimes "refuse" to chase you, or how you can get lucky and dodge a hail of bullets. I kinda like that you can't place one-ways facing down because you can bug them out and jump past them. Not being able to walljump off trap doors or One-ways is an integral part of a lot of maps and gives a surface that you can't just shoot up. Double-jumping off bounce-blocks is a part of the game; Cornerjumps are a part of the game now. All of these glitches are a part of how the game functions and works, and here's the important part - Unless you have a reason to fix the bugs that outweighs their current usefulness, do not fix the bugs.

Edit: Hell, I even like the stutter now. It's a part of the game. Sure, it's annoying, but it's a part of the game. I'm voting full no, because even the stutter adds to the complexity and necessary skill level of the game, and just like dying 3000 times, sometimes it's f-f-f-f-f-f-fun to stutter.

As I read through this thread I start to wish I had voted No. As I said in my post before losing all of the old runs would be awful, but even worse would be losing all of the cool stuff we have figured out about this game. All of the cool little tricks like corner jumps, multiple bounce block jumps, jumping through oneways, and lesser known backwards wall jumping; these tricks have been figured out, and we now use them. If they were all lost it just wouldn't be N. If some of these things were changed it could make some user maps entirely unbeatable.

I think what N needs is not fixes to the game play; to be absolutely honest I think you guys managed to achieve perfection with 3 buttons, I think the game needs fixes to the interface especially with NED, More in game levels, and just generally new things. Make some new drones, a cool new to incorporate NUMA, maybe a way to play with friends ie. multiplayer.

[Lenny]

It seems like 1.5 will, in many ways, be almost like a sequel to the original game, so I'd make the changes.

[Kablizzy]

As I read through this thread I start to wish I had voted No. As I said in my post before losing all of the old runs would be awful, but even worse would be losing all of the cool stuff we have figured out about this game. All of the cool little tricks like corner jumps, multiple bounce block jumps, jumping through oneways, and lesser known backwards wall jumping; these tricks have been figured out, and we now use them. If they were all lost it just wouldn't be N. If some of these things were changed it could make some user maps entirely unbeatable.

Not just unbeatable, in a lot of cases, unplayable. I had thought this too, and then I had thought - What'd be cooler than revisiting old maps to re-do some runs? That'd be fun as Hell, and reinvigorate the community too!

Edit: Also, I think we underestimate the number of maps we'd lose entirely if even a single bug was fixed, let alone all of them - I'd even venture to say that a large portion of NUMA / userlevels rely on some sort of bug or glitch because once the techniques were found, they were used as advanced techniques for making harder maps (Think Gold delay for DDAs or corner jumping for a lot of maps).

Also, small changes are fine, but I'd think long and hard on what constitutes a "small change," and again, what you'd be losing in exchange for "fixing" it.

[a happy song]

I say make some changes. Chain gun randomness is not fun, and honestly think people here are being a little too nostalgic about them. The options for building levels around a more manageable chain gun fire would be really interesting, and I think after getting used to them people would find them much more enjoyable.

Fix the chaser drones too.

These things are machines, they're supposed to react to you with precision. And while I find a fluke can be very satisfying every now and then, I know it's frustrated me a lot more often.

Fix the chain guns, fix the slope stutter, fix the one way glitch (imo, it's fun but annoying when you have to add more objects just to get the one you really need working properly).

However, make sure you include a classic option as well.

Keep the rest. BB physics, corner jumping, etc.. are what give this game such depth.

I honestly think people would get over the one-way glitch, and I'm almost certain they'd grow to love the chaingun and drone fixes.

[Brainstone]

Fix the chaser drones. I`ve always hated when I was running under them, then wallclimbed next to them and they didn`t react the first, but the second time. Understood what I mean?
About the chainguns, I`m not so sure. I mean, just look at this demo: Just look at it:
$8-4 And so this shall be the LAST FIGHT against the dragon#brainstone#theepiccollection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|5^396,564!2^60,552,0,-1!8^276,564,3!2^276,552,0,-1!8^516,564,3!2^516,552,0,-1!2^732,552,0,-1!9^396,384,1,0,22,21,1,0,0!2^552,132,-1,0!2^240,132,1,0!9^420,36,1,1,22,18,0,0,-1!9^420,36,1,1,21,18,0,0,-1!9^420,36,1,1,20,18,0,0,-1!9^414,36,1,1,19,18,0,0,-1!9^414,36,1,1,18,18,0,0,-1!9^414,36,1,1,17,18,0,0,-1!9^408,36,1,1,16,18,0,0,-1!9^408,36,1,1,15,18,0,0,-1!9^408,36,1,1,14,18,0,0,-1!9^402,36,1,1,13,18,0,0,-1!9^402,36,1,1,12,18,0,0,-1!9^402,36,1,1,11,18,0,0,-1!9^402,36,1,1,10,18,0,0,-1!9^372,36,1,1,13,8,0,0,0!9^372,36,1,1,14,8,0,0,0!9^372,36,1,1,15,8,0,0,0!9^378,36,1,1,16,8,0,0,0!9^378,36,1,1,17,8,0,0,0!9^378,36,1,1,18,8,0,0,0!9^384,36,1,1,19,8,0,0,0!9^390,36,1,1,20,8,0,0,0!9^390,36,1,1,21,8,0,0,0!9^396,36,1,1,22,8,0,0,0!9^396,36,1,1,12,8,0,0,0!9^396,36,1,1,11,8,0,0,0!9^396,36,1,1,10,8,0,0,0!9^426,36,1,1,23,18,0,0,-1!9^366,36,1,1,9,18,0,0,-1!1^300,516!1^492,516!1^624,420!1^168,420!7^552,252,3!7^240,252,3!2^552,108,-1,0!2^240,108,1,0!9^360,36,0,1,8,3,0,-1,0!6^612,372,1,0,2,3!6^156,228,2,0,2,0!6^180,228,2,0,2,0!6^204,228,2,0,2,0!7^396,300,3!7^420,300,3!7^372,300,3!1^480,252!1^312,252!1^396,156!0^330,342!0^336,330!0^330,312!0^462,342!0^462,312!0^456,330!0^252,342!0^396,186!0^414,192!0^378,192!10^396,336!2^516,492,-0.707106781186547,-0.707106781186547!2^276,492,0.707106781186547,-0.707106781186547!2^552,276,-1,0!2^240,276,1,0!9^396,384,1,0,10,21,1,0,0!9^636,276,0,0,18,1,1,0,0!9^516,276,0,0,18,1,1,-1,0!9^276,276,0,0,14,1,1,0,0!9^396,120,0,0,30,2,1,0,0!11^768,60,396,36!2^396,288,0,-1!9^156,276,0,0,14,1,1,-1,0!6^180,372,0,0,2,3!9^228,336,1,0,9,13,0,0,0!9^252,336,1,0,10,13,0,0,0!9^276,336,1,0,11,13,0,0,0!9^564,336,1,0,23,13,0,0,0!9^540,336,1,0,22,13,0,0,0!9^516,336,1,0,21,13,0,0,0!0^528,324!0^534,342!0^258,324!9^372,456,1,0,15,18,0,0,0!9^396,456,1,0,16,18,0,0,0!9^420,456,1,0,17,18,0,0,0#1009:17895697|17895697|17895697|17895697|17895697|17895697|35782929|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|201466402|107374148|40265318|107376162|107374182|107374182|139814|201344076|201344068|16777284|17895697|17895697|17895697|17895697|17895697|201396497|107374148|89474662|219222357|17895765|1118481|0|17895680|1|17895680|17895697|17895697|273|17891328|17895697|17895697|17895697|17895697|17895697|1118481|0|0|0|0|0|0|71584768|71582788|1092|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|71582912|89478485|106762581|107374182|107374182|35792486|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|201466402|107374180|36071014|107880994|35791462|107376162|107374182|107374182|35791398|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|0|17895424|17895697|17895697|17895697|35790849|35791394|17891874|17895697|17895697|71614737|107374148|107374182|107374182|237397606|107374182|107374182|107374182|107374182|89615910|22369621|17895697|33554449|2236962|35791360|35791394|35791394|35791394|107880994|71582822|107365444|107374182|107374182|89007718|89478485|89478485|89478485|89478485|89478485|17895701|17895697|35721489|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|107880994|107374182|107374182|107374182|35792486|35791394|35791394|546|35782656|35791394|35791394|35791394|2

recorded by ChrisE



EDIT: And please keep this glitch: click.
Sorry I have no other example map than my own. :(

[nevershine]

I say make some changes. Chain gun randomness is not fun, and honestly think people here are being a little too nostalgic about them. The options for building levels around a more manageable chain gun fire would be really interesting, and I think after getting used to them people would find them much more enjoyable.

Fix the chaser drones too.

These things are machines, they're supposed to react to you with precision. And while I find a fluke can be very satisfying every now and then, I know it's frustrated me a lot more often.

Fix the chain guns, fix the slope stutter, fix the one way glitch (imo, it's fun but annoying when you have to add more objects just to get the one you really need working properly).

However, make sure you include a classic option as well.

Keep the rest. BB physics, corner jumping, etc.. are what give this game such depth.

I honestly think people would get over the one-way glitch, and I'm almost certain they'd grow to love the chaingun and drone fixes.

I agree 100% with everything atob said, except for that oneway glitch fix. it's become an important element of mapping and fixing it would just screw up too many maps on numa, imo.

[a happy song]

except for that oneway glitch fix. it's become an important element of mapping and fixing it would just screw up too many maps on numa, imo.

Which is why I've called for the inclusion of a classic mode. People will be able to denote which mode their map is meant for.

[maya]

except for that oneway glitch fix. it's become an important element of mapping and fixing it would just screw up too many maps on numa, imo.

Which is why I've called for the inclusion of a classic mode. People will be able to denote which mode their map is meant for.

Yeah, if possible, a classic mode would be amazing. Or we could just open them up in v1.4, right?

I think small changes should be made; obviously things like double bb jumps and corner jumps will remain. At least I hope so. Pulling off amazing corner jumps is one of /the/ best things in this game.