NUMA: Declining as we speak

[Radium]

Heh, Radium, I still see you as one of those new users who submits maps too much.

What the rabbit Obviously you don't know what your talking about.

[//Zander]

and... why do you think I summoned up the will to leave... because NUMA is becoming a "hole in the world like a great black pit, and it's filled with people who are filled with 'fecal matter'..." etc...
I used to love that place, but is does suck now, and it will only get worse.

[Ampersand]

Heh, Radium, I still see you as one of those new users who submits maps too much.

What the fuck? Obviously you don't know what your talking about.

Dude, I haven't submitted a map since late '05.

[//Zander]

I reckon, that NUMA has gone downhill, but what pisses me off...
is when people decide to stop whining about how their maps disappear without notice and start getting all crappy about someones map staying on the hotmaps for longer than an hour. seriously, because you bastards don't get this attention you have to bitch about everyone who does.I think this is slightly unfair yes, but the map is getting attention for reasons, because people like it. now how hard, really, is it to rate, comment and move to the other maps on the dam page. it's not as if the page is taken up by one map. and, what's this i hear? there's another page after that... wow...

[mintnut]

Heh, Radium, I still see you as one of those new users who submits maps too much.

What the rabbit Obviously you don't know what your talking about.

I was talking about perceptions. I perceive you to be like that. We both know that you no longer are. You should stop seeking any conflict with me, since my, for want of a better word, retirement, I don't really care so much.

xxx

[Radium]

I was talking about perceptions. I perceive you to be like that. We both know that you no longer are. You should stop seeking any conflict with me, since my, for want of a better word, retirement, I don't really care so much.

xxx

...

Then say I perceive rather than I see. Simple as that.

[capt_weasle]

I may be late to the party, but are you kidding me? So some mappers left, and some newbies joined. Whatever, it's how life rolls. I remember that a lot of people thought NUMA was declining years ago. Back when I made maps and played N, there was always a fluctuation between the good and the bad. It's called a cycle.

[Pikman]

I think I can speak for all of us when I say we enjoy these kinds of maps.

[Riobe]

I tend not to attempt to join these kinds of topic, but here goes...

Firstly, I do feel that the quality of NUMA is declining (based on mapping quality). But the matter of fact is, how are we supposed to change the joining of less experienced mappers? I know this has been said over and over again, but noobs will continue to join NUMA, there's no stopping that. People can whine and whine over the fact that 'map quality is decreasing' or 'maps aren't getting rated or attention', but the fact is that it has always been declining, as gloomp said. NUMA will continue to grow, and there will be noobs that make the place 'decline in quality'. But that's just the way it is, and there's no stopping that.

The fact is, however, that people are being overly melodramatic about this whole thing, and it's making the more stable-minded members of the community less secure, and it's what is also contributing to the 'Declining quality of NUMA'. Such as today, the big "Stacey Experiment" went down. To sum up the whole 'ordeal':

[23:01] <Blackson> Someone makes an account with a female avatar, comments on two maps, and the whole community reacts.
[23:01] <Blackson> Jesus, desperate much?

We all know of how this harmless joke managed to escalate into, unnecessarily, a huge issue. The reaction to that map is why NUMA is apparently 'spiraling' downwards. Sometimes, people need to step back, chill out, and realize that a joke is a joke.

Now, as for the whole unrated maps on the Hot Maps page. So what? People do actually have lives outside of N, and even if you think your maps are great and deserve loads of attention (and even if they do), you should not be entitled to complain about getting attention (or maps overall getting attention), as you should for the most part hope for attention, not ask for it. Eventually, as you get better at mapmaking, you will earn attention. Actually, to be honest, most maps on the Hot Maps page actually do deserve attention, because those maps are from dedicated mappers who are actually trying to get better, or new mappers just joining into the fun. When I was a noob (as I hope I've made it past that stage :D), I actually attempted to make better maps. I remember getting feedback that I couldn't just put into action. I mean, when people tell you to not 'spam gold' or 'don't put in too many enemies', it's not like I instantly knew how much enemies are too much enemies. Noobs take time to learn the normal rules of mapmaking. So no, feedback is definitely not the only thing that plays a role in improving your mapmaking, as experience plays a much larger, more important role in it. Now I'm not saying that feedback is useless, as it isn't. Little tips such as 'don't spam enemies' or 'try to make a more good looking tileset' will most definitely help. I just think that people should at least attempt to be more tolerant of noobs, and their mapmaking.

As far as noob behavior goes, usually just telling them how to act properly around NUMA works, and if that's not the case, they will get a warning, or suspension, or perma-ban if bad enough. Though, when it comes to noobs and rating, it's more of a matter of experience for that too. I think people need to be more understanding of people's rates. Noobs, usually at first, rate almost every map they see a 4 or 5. This is because they haven't yet played enough maps to see the difference between a 'good' map and a 'bad' map, or a 'very good' and a 'below average' map. Of course, people's opinions will differ most the time, and that's not going to change. But after a while, noobs will start to understand when a map is definitely 'good' and when a map is definitely 'below average' (as they play more maps, they gain more experience).

So, in the end, I do think that NUMA is declining in quality as far as mapping quality goes, but I do not think that the NUMA community is declining (as in the people on NUMA). I also agree with this:

I may be late to the party, but are you kidding me? So some mappers left, and some newbies joined. Whatever, it's how life rolls. I remember that a lot of people thought NUMA was declining years ago. Back when I made maps and played N, there was always a fluctuation between the good and the bad. It's called a cycle.

Sometimes though, people need to chill back, chill out, and relax with the rest of the NUMA community as a whole.

:)

[sidke]

<insert that wall of text>

qft

Riobe, you're my hero. :3

[Atilla]

Everyone has their knickers in a twist over some alleged female again? Atilla swears this happens every two weeks. She finds it disappointing that people still make such a fuss over it.

[blackson]

Everyone has their knickers in a twist over some alleged female again? Atilla swears this happens every two weeks. She finds it disappointing that people still make such a fuss over it.

She? SHE?!? </community freakout>

[Cheez]

I certainly didn't help the declining.

[otters]

Everyone has their knickers in a twist over some alleged female again? Atilla swears this happens every two weeks. She finds it disappointing that people still make such a fuss over it.

She? SHE?!? </community freakout>

~_^

[Brttrx]

I think Numa is doing just fine, just changing. Do not be afraid, I promise everything will be okay.

[PALEMOON]

I think Numa is doing just fine, just changing. Do not be afraid, I promise everything will be okay.

and there you have it, folks. this thread's over :)

[wedgie]

good luck enforcing that. hey guess what? PEOPLE HAVE LIVES TO LIVE THATS NOT ON THEIR ASS IN FRONT OF A COMPYUTOR

The point remains that NUMA needs some more mods/admins. Ones that are active/vigilant.

Well the NUMA mods and admins need everyones help though to actually monitor the massive amounts of maps that are posted. If you see a problem with a map, or problems with certain members posts on maps, then report them. If nothing is reported, then I have no way of seeing what problems there are without looking through all new maps myself. So if you are already looking at a map that has some issues then report it. Then, the mods can check the mod queue and go and look at the maps and comments that have been reported and take necessary action.

I think the main reason NUMA looks a lot worse now than it did is purely because of the volume of people using it. If you look back a few years, the great mappers like tktktk, maximo, Heartview, Aju, Stepself, Sweep, Lucidium, formica, Nevermore and Sendy, to name a few, used to make up a fairly large percentage of the total maps that were posted, as there were fewer members in total. But now, there are so many members that the good mappers are overwhelmed by the 'average/poor' mappers, so you see a lot more of the filler than the good content. There are probably just as many good mappers now as there used to be, maybe even more, but they make up a far smaller percentage overall because of the massive rise in members.

Learn to look through the rubbish and continue making maps. NUMA has been around for 4 or so years now, so you have to expect the average quality to drop a little.

I do however, think that NUMA's tabs and categories need to be tweaked a little more. The new categories have received more complaints than anything, but yet everything has remained the same. I think the communities views need to be considered a little more. Rather than just moaning about what is wrong, lets talk about what can be done to resolve these problems and make this place better.

[a happy song]

Oh, and it's declining as we TYPE. I don't hear any voices here.

Noobs.

[SkyPanda]

Oh, and it's declining as we TYPE. I don't hear any voices here.

It's a figure of type.


:D :D

[MattKestrel]

Oh, and it's declining as we TYPE. I don't hear any voices here.

Lucky you. Some of us here are schizo -_-

[blackson]

I think the main reason NUMA looks a lot worse now than it did is purely because of the volume of people using it. If you look back a few years, the great mappers like tktktk, maximo, Heartview, Aju, Stepself, Sweep, Lucidium, formica, Nevermore and Sendy, to name a few, used to make up a fairly large percentage of the total maps that were posted, as there were fewer members in total. But now, there are so many members that the good mappers are overwhelmed by the 'average/poor' mappers, so you see a lot more of the filler than the good content. There are probably just as many good mappers now as there used to be, maybe even more, but they make up a far smaller percentage overall because of the massive rise in members.

Well said, I agree with this.

[Cheez]

I think the main reason NUMA looks a lot worse now than it did is purely because of the volume of people using it. If you look back a few years, the great mappers like tktktk, maximo, Heartview, Aju, Stepself, Sweep, Lucidium, formica, Nevermore and Sendy, to name a few, used to make up a fairly large percentage of the total maps that were posted, as there were fewer members in total. But now, there are so many members that the good mappers are overwhelmed by the 'average/poor' mappers, so you see a lot more of the filler than the good content. There are probably just as many good mappers now as there used to be, maybe even more, but they make up a far smaller percentage overall because of the massive rise in members.

I suppose I would be one of them "average" mappers, then.

[remm]

Just to put my side on the matter, I do actually try to get noobs to make better maps by posting comments telling them what they could've done.
sometimes that turns out fine, its hard to know whether or not they listen, but sometimes like on http://nmaps.net/164149 this map, I rated him a 1, with explanations.
then http://nmaps.net/164148 he posts this as some sort of retaliation on my map

It stinks. Its impossible to get under the "tent" plus you overused:Zap drones, doors, unlocable doors and the map just plain sucks

some people cant be helped.


My other problem is noobs don't get the rating system. I know it has explanations of what the rate means next to each option, but they hand out 5's if the map shows a hint of being good. . .

mmm

[otters~1]

Just to put my side on the matter, I do actually try to get noobs to make better maps by posting comments telling them what they could've done.
sometimes that turns out fine, its hard to know whether or not they listen, but sometimes like on http://nmaps.net/164149 this map, I rated him a 1, with explanations.
then http://nmaps.net/164148 he posts this as some sort of retaliation on my map

It stinks. Its impossible to get under the "tent" plus you overused:Zap drones, doors, unlocable doors and the map just plain sucks

some people cant be helped.


My other problem is noobs don't get the rating system. I know it has explanations of what the rate means next to each option, but they hand out 5's if the map shows a hint of being good. . .

mmm

I saw that map and laughed at that comment. The map was very nice, I think I faved it.
*shrug*