Metanet Forums

It is my personal opinion that the community on NUMA is rapidly declining. Talented authors are leaving every month and are getting replaced by younger, albeit nice folks who submit extremely poor maps. Even when given advice, they still submit rubbish.

My main concern, however, is how little attention maps are receiving. I seldom see any comments containing half-decent advice/praise. Mostly just: "REALLY FUN MAN 5/5 HEYYYYY PLAY MY MAP!!111!" And that's if your lucky enough for someone to see your map. Don't even get me started on how maps can float on the hot maps for 12+ hours.

And what about rates? I just looked through 10 pages on hotmaps and only ten were rated. That's 10%.. What the giraffe is this? Sure you can argue "Map for yourself!" but that is completely invalid considering NUMA was created to SHARE your maps with others.

I just don't find this place that much fun anymore.. I think that the reason maps aren't getting seen is because the majority of submitted maps are absolutely worthless. Who wants to play a map that has 23 rockets and z-snapped gold embedded in tiles?

I'm not sure this can be fixed.. this community is slowly but surely decaying..

I think you just flamed the entire NUMA community...

Screw what I said. I still love NUMA, and always will.

So lemme get this straight... you just made a topic that basically says "all of you suck."
I'm not sure what sort of response you're expecting here...

Tsukatu wrote:So lemme get this straight... you just made a topic that basically says "all of you suck."
I'm not sure what sort of response you're expecting here...

Um.. No. I made a topic sharing my view on what NUMA has become. And Tsutaku, you aren't even active on NUMA so you wouldn't understand.

Radium wrote:

Tsukatu wrote:So lemme get this straight... you just made a topic that basically says "all of you suck."
I'm not sure what sort of response you're expecting here...

And Tsutaku, you aren't even active on NUMA so you wouldn't understand.

Even so, he is constantly around N mappers and he hears his share of complaining. I think you need to actively try to make the maps on NUMA become better rather than start threads saying "NUMA sucks and there's nothing I can do."

Maybe try to guide new users, because I'm sure you didn't learn all of NUMA's tips and rules by yourself. Be a mentor, not a dick. Please?

Life247 wrote:Even so, he is constantly around N mappers and he hears his share of complaining.

It's not the same as actually being on NUMA.

Life247 wrote: I think you need to actively try to make the maps on NUMA become better rather than start threads saying "NUMA sucks and there's nothing I can do."

I am good. My mapping is fine. But that's irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that maps are ignored and most of them suck shit.

Life247 wrote:Maybe try to guide new users, because I'm sure you didn't learn all of NUMA's tips and rules by yourself. Be a mentor, not a dick. Please?

...

I'll try. But this is an epidemic. I can help, but I can't stop it alone.

Radium wrote:It's not the same as actually being on NUMA.

True. You win.

Radium wrote:I am good. My mapping is fine. But that's irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that maps are ignored and most of them suck shit.

You make great maps, which is why you are an excellent candiate for teaching new members how to map properly.

Radium wrote:I'll try. But this is an epidemic. I can help, but I can't stop it alone.

Ha, you're hardly alone.

Life247 wrote: You make great maps, which is why you are an excellent candiate for teaching new members how to map properly.

Thx :D

Life247 wrote: Ha, you're hardly alone.

Ooo!

You're being way too dramatic. It's a normal cycle, and I've seen far better authors leave than the one creating this recent surge of goodbye maps. They were replaced by people like you, Riobe and GTM. New mappers will step up.

As to ratings, it's understandable that less maps can get rated because they're being submitted at a much faster rate than they used to be, but this doesn't mean that you can't find good maps when you want. The the maps of new mappers are rarely going to get rated until they build a name for themselves, this isn't a new development, although Hot Maps has made it harder for them.

wolfgang wrote:You're being way too dramatic. It's a normal cycle, and I've seen far better authors leave than the one creating this recent surge of goodbye maps.

Wolfgang has a good point here. I remember NUMA was going through a similar decline in late 2007, as old mappers were leaving and NUMA was dominated by spam maps. A lot of the mappers you currently view as incompetent will improve their skills and become good map makers. At the same time, if you are so worried about maps being rated, that is what the forums and IRC are for. They provide a much more easy and efficient way to play others' maps and give feedback. Try not to worry too much about it. Just do what you can to help keep the quality level up.

Radium wrote:

Tsukatu wrote:So lemme get this straight... you just made a topic that basically says "all of you suck."
I'm not sure what sort of response you're expecting here...

Um.. No. I made a topic sharing my view on what NUMA has become. And Tsutaku, you aren't even active on NUMA so you wouldn't understand.

AHAHAGHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

NUMA has been dead since late '05, fellas. I'm shocked we're just noticing now. Suki knew about this back when we all mapped for NUMA.

I agree with Radium. At the moment, I haven't had a rated map for ages. I'll be lucky for a single comment or rating nowadays, when a month ago I could have between 5-30 ratings on all my maps, with dozens of comments.
What needs to be done is control. There are a huge amount of multiaccounters, oversubmitters, and advertisers. Admins need to set strong guidelines and follow through (with warnings, and temporary and permanent bans). If the new authors only submitted 2-3 maps a day and multiaccounters were caught, perhaps it would solve some problems. Advertising should be heavily discouraged also.

bad community or not, it's still going to archive maps, and that's basically what i use it for.

edit: this has been a problem since i joined, and i joined in like 2005.

True, but improvement in mapping is based entirely on feedback. You may be sure about your style Palemoon, but new users, namely me, with only 170 maps under my belt, aren't so confident.

Amadeus wrote:True, but improvement in mapping is based entirely on feedback. You may be sure about your style Palemoon, but new users, namely me, with only 170 maps under my belt, aren't so confident.

Completely untrue. Feedback is important, and to you should take heed of it to a degree, but the best mappers will push forward with their ideas regardless.

If you're having trouble with confidence, or inspiration, or anything to do with creative design after 170 maps, then it might just be that you don't have the same inherent talent as the authors you reference.

Feeback guides you, it can't create ability where there is none. Chances are, If you have no originality in your work to begin with, then all feedback will do is build generic or derivative shapes and play or 'pretentious for the sake of different' disasters.

I will agree that the best authors of NUMA (and I believe the impact they made outweighs arguments about subjectivity, to a point at least) grew with a stronger and fuller community around them, but the vast majority of those maps and comments are still available for you to find and gleen the same quality of inspiration from.

I complained like this about three months into when I started. For a while I spent time helping noobs and myself by listening to what other people have to say. I am still ignored to an extent.
I don't help all noobs, its pointless. But I do like giving advice to peeps who have potentail.

Yes, good mappers leave, but they are replaced. It is just that time of the year or whatever when people leave.
It happens, numa is declining, Badly actually.
The problem is that we are subbing maps to fast compared to the hot maps. and since alot of people actually only care about their map the won't give a shit about others so no maps gets rated and just kicked off, so they sub another one to see if that one gets rated and so a chainreaction happens.
If you want to find good maps. look through active authors not hot maps.

I have the holidays coming up so its going to be hectic for me to do something around here.

AltArc isn't looking any better.. sadly to say its not finished. and I am hoping that no noobs find out. otherwise AltArc could be usefull.

Numa is designed for sharing maps, yet all it has become is a stock place for noob maps.

Complaining won't help.

[zissou]Goddammit, Brizzly put it /so/ perfect. I haven't been around since '05, but it's still obvious to me that NUMA's been "declining" for ages. It's all about size. Once you reach a critical mass on any sort of public archive, the penis maps start outweighing the perfect ones. It's really not a new thing, it's just everyone starts out with a pair of novelty goggles over their eyes. All they see is all the maps and people and fun and they think, "Wow, what a great place!"[/zissou]

Of course, those goggles come off eventually. The style wears off, they learn who's who. Then they start looking around and they see all the sniping and spam and advertising and they think, "Oh God, what's happened to my beloved NUMA?"

And then if they're Radium, they make a thread akin to one of those "Enb ls NIGH" signs. If they're most people though, they get some P-E-R-S-P-E-C-T-I-V-E and realize this really isn't a new thing.

gloomp wrote:

And then if they're Radium, they make a thread akin to one of those "Enb ls NIGH" signs.

I believe it is "End" good sir.

gloomp wrote: If they're most people though, they get some P-E-R-S-P-E-C-T-I-V-E and realize this really isn't a new thing.

. . .

Fine, you got me there. My point is NUMA isn't all that great community wise.

Radium wrote:

gloomp wrote:

And then if they're Radium, they make a thread akin to one of those "Enb ls NIGH" signs.

I believe it is "End" good sir.

Quite purposeful. Notice how that's an "L" before the s?

Radium wrote:

gloomp wrote:

And then if they're Radium, they make a thread akin to one of those "Enb ls NIGH" signs.

I believe it is "End" good sir.

Radium, he was poking fun at how those guys holding the sandwich boards are portrayed to put the d's the wrong way around. Just so you know :)

Anyways, I agree in that the community has declined even since I started a few months ago. But progress is being made; old and new users are taking charge and setting up products, AltArc is almost up and running, and The RealnN Forums are stronger than ever, imo. I'm sure we can take charge of this problem is a community and stop it from running into the ground.

Plus, I'd agree in that feedback isn't as important as everyone makes it out to be. I've noticed from the new users in particular that they generally use feedback or a lack of it as an excuse for poor maps, rather than something constructive. I'd agree with atob in that inspiration, originality and talent are more important than feedback in a creative medium like this; it's not the basics that should be pushing you forward here.

I mean, I've made over 300 maps, but despite the reams of feedback I've received for these I'm definitely not as good as other authors who've gotten less feedback. Drikam, Lucidium and theAdster being examples, I think.

Suggestion: Take a step back. Most of the semi-established mapmakers, like ganteka, for instance, submit way too many maps. If none of your maps are getting attention, only submit one every two weeks (or longer, if you can stand it), and you'll get more feedback. This will also give you more time to improve your maps. Funnily enough, I never see really good mappers complaining about the amount of comments they get...

GTM wrote: Anyways, I agree in that the community has declined even since I started a few months ago.

I mean, I've made over 300 maps, but despite the reams of feedback I've received for these I'm definitely not as good as other authors who've gotten less feedback. Drikam, Lucidium and theAdster being examples, I think.

Ahahaha.

The real problem here is that the only people telling newbies to make better maps are fellow members. NUMA itself doesn't tell users how to improve their maps. What if there were a special page for beginners that demonstrated better map-making, that appeared either immediately after registering and logging in, or right before submitting one's first map?

GTM wrote:

Radium wrote:

gloomp wrote:

And then if they're Radium, they make a thread akin to one of those "Enb ls NIGH" signs.

I believe it is "End" good sir.

Radium, he was poking fun at how those guys holding the sandwich boards are portrayed to put the d's the wrong way around. Just so you know :)

Goddamn. He gets the best of me at every turn D:

Gforce wrote:The real problem here is that the only people telling newbies to make better maps are fellow members. NUMA itself doesn't tell users how to improve their maps. What if there were a special page for beginners that demonstrated better map-making, that appeared either immediately after registering and logging in, or right before submitting one's first map?

http://jeffkillian.com/NUMA

You should put that on AltArc.

gloomp wrote: http://jeffkillian.com/NUMA

We need that to be on the Home Page again.