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Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.05 (23:29)
by EddyMataGallos
Nice innov man, that drone always frustrated the heck out of me, its not just a bottleneck, you can't go slower either, there's just this little frame window in which you have to pass, iirc.

Btw, I think its about time you have a go at the occupy xela movement, isn't it?

EDIT: I just realized that the fastest non-cj run for 11-0 is 149.225. For those that are using that route (golf?, Hendor?), I have a 150.500 non-cj route:


That was my first completion with it, 150.475, it can definitely be cleaned and you can beat Melchoir with it. 151 is probably not plausible for both bottleneck and cleaning issues, but its definitely worth a shot.

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.07 (06:24)
by ska
Not really an innovation, so much as a possible opportunity. A couple of years or so ago, swipenet took 06-3; however, his beginning uses a slower method. The launchpad route in the bottom-right corner (compare swipe to my run or xaelar's for example) is considerably quicker. (maybe 0.2-0.25 seconds faster.) Since the level is relatively long (about 1200 frames), swipenet's run is clean enough aside from this slower start to make up time and outrun xaelar. Consider this a big hint for Eddy or macro, or anyone else for that matter, to try to nab it.

P.S. I am having trouble pasting demo data into NHigh's demo analysis... has anyone else ever had this issue? I've never had it before (Using 2.0.1)

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.07 (15:46)
by EddyMataGallos
ska wrote:Not really an innovation, so much as a possible opportunity. A couple of years or so ago, swipenet took 06-3; however, his beginning uses a slower method. The launchpad route in the bottom-right corner (compare swipe to my run or xaelar's for example) is considerably quicker. (maybe 0.2-0.25 seconds faster.) Since the level is relatively long (about 1200 frames), swipenet's run is clean enough aside from this slower start to make up time and outrun xaelar. Consider this a big hint for Eddy or macro, or anyone else for that matter, to try to nab it.

P.S. I am having trouble pasting demo data into NHigh's demo analysis... has anyone else ever had this issue? I've never had it before (Using 2.0.1)
Oh so had anyone done that route already? If not, its an innovation! It's of course a mixture of previous routes though.

Regarding NHigh, its working fine for me. What's happening with yours?

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.10 (16:17)
by ska
EddyMataGallos wrote:
ska wrote:Not really an innovation, so much as a possible opportunity. A couple of years or so ago, swipenet took 06-3; however, his beginning uses a slower method. The launchpad route in the bottom-right corner (compare swipe to my run or xaelar's for example) is considerably quicker. (maybe 0.2-0.25 seconds faster.) Since the level is relatively long (about 1200 frames), swipenet's run is clean enough aside from this slower start to make up time and outrun xaelar. Consider this a big hint for Eddy or macro, or anyone else for that matter, to try to nab it.

P.S. I am having trouble pasting demo data into NHigh's demo analysis... has anyone else ever had this issue? I've never had it before (Using 2.0.1)
Oh so had anyone done that route already? If not, its an innovation! It's of course a mixture of previous routes though.

Regarding NHigh, its working fine for me. What's happening with yours?
I don't know, but I got it working again; it was probably just a bug.

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.12 (02:25)
by Izzy
It's probably been mentioned already, but grabbing the switch on 35-3 right after the walljump should definitely save a bit of time. Messed up the double a couple of time after getting it that way. :(

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.12 (05:01)
by ska
EddyMataGallos wrote:
ska wrote:Not really an innovation, so much as a possible opportunity. A couple of years or so ago, swipenet took 06-3; however, his beginning uses a slower method. The launchpad route in the bottom-right corner (compare swipe to my run or xaelar's for example) is considerably quicker. (maybe 0.2-0.25 seconds faster.) Since the level is relatively long (about 1200 frames), swipenet's run is clean enough aside from this slower start to make up time and outrun xaelar. Consider this a big hint for Eddy or macro, or anyone else for that matter, to try to nab it.

P.S. I am having trouble pasting demo data into NHigh's demo analysis... has anyone else ever had this issue? I've never had it before (Using 2.0.1)
Oh so had anyone done that route already? If not, its an innovation! It's of course a mixture of previous routes though.
I must have missed this part of your reply. I would have just called the launchpad route the "normal" route. I certainly won't take and credit for being an "innovation". For some reason swipenet used a slightly slower wall-jump route; perhaps under the mistaken belief that it was faster than the wall-jumps.
Izzy wrote:It's probably been mentioned already, but grabbing the switch on 35-3 right after the walljump should definitely save a bit of time. Messed up the double a couple of time after getting it that way. :(
It is known; it's just not that easy.

MBD for proof:

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.12 (23:47)
by EddyMataGallos
ska wrote:
EddyMataGallos wrote:
ska wrote:Not really an innovation, so much as a possible opportunity. A couple of years or so ago, swipenet took 06-3; however, his beginning uses a slower method. The launchpad route in the bottom-right corner (compare swipe to my run or xaelar's for example) is considerably quicker. (maybe 0.2-0.25 seconds faster.) Since the level is relatively long (about 1200 frames), swipenet's run is clean enough aside from this slower start to make up time and outrun xaelar. Consider this a big hint for Eddy or macro, or anyone else for that matter, to try to nab it.

P.S. I am having trouble pasting demo data into NHigh's demo analysis... has anyone else ever had this issue? I've never had it before (Using 2.0.1)
Oh so had anyone done that route already? If not, its an innovation! It's of course a mixture of previous routes though.
I must have missed this part of your reply. I would have just called the launchpad route the "normal" route. I certainly won't take and credit for being an "innovation". For some reason swipenet used a slightly slower wall-jump route; perhaps under the mistaken belief that it was faster than the wall-jumps.
Oh no, I meant my 11-0 no-cj route. It takes parts from 2-3 different routes, plus a new ending. I don't think this had ever been used before, hence why I called it new route, or innovated route.

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.16 (03:09)
by TheRealOne
57-4

Are either these possible while still avoiding the rocket?

Normal (Down, Up, Down, Up): 225f --- Current route.


Wall Jump and Only One Double Jump (Up, Down, Up): 209f --- Easy, but will probably get caught by the rocket.


Double Jump to Backwards Wall Jump (Down, Up): 190f --- Definitely possible with current route, but hard and a complete run ruin-er if failed.

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.16 (06:31)
by ska
TheRealOne wrote:57-4

Are either these possible while still avoiding the rocket?

Normal (Down, Up, Down, Up): 225f --- Current route.


Wall Jump and Only One Double Jump (Up, Down, Up): 209f --- Easy, but will probably get caught by the rocket.


Double Jump to Backwards Wall Jump (Down, Up): 190f --- Definitely possible with current route, but hard and a complete run ruin-er if failed.
Man! That' a nifty idea.

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.16 (13:26)
by alsojp27ace
TheRealOne wrote:57-4

Are either these possible while still avoiding the rocket?

Normal (Down, Up, Down, Up): 225f --- Current route.


Wall Jump and Only One Double Jump (Up, Down, Up): 209f --- Easy, but will probably get caught by the rocket.


Double Jump to Backwards Wall Jump (Down, Up): 190f --- Definitely possible with current route, but hard and a complete run ruin-er if failed.
Woah that last one looks awesome, that would definitely be the fastest if someone can pull it off.
I tested the first one and was running into the rocket all the time, this way avoids the rocket and I found it to be slightly faster too:


Edit: Taken

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.16 (16:36)
by vankusss
Nice finds.
This is a faster beginning:


works also with the rocket:

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.16 (16:49)
by alsojp27ace
vankusss wrote:Nice finds.
This is a faster beginning:


works also with the rocket:
I sat here for about a minute thinking I swear I tried that jump, before I realized you raised the ground :p
That said, you could try something like this:

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.16 (16:54)
by vankusss
alsojp27ace wrote:I sat here for about a minute thinking I swear I tried that jump, before I realized you raised the ground :p
That said, you could try something like this:
It's not raised in the first map, you need a cj. I raised it out of lazyness, to prove the rocket part. I hoped it would confuse people, so +1 me.

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.16 (17:03)
by alsojp27ace
vankusss wrote:
alsojp27ace wrote:I sat here for about a minute thinking I swear I tried that jump, before I realized you raised the ground :p
That said, you could try something like this:
It's not raised in the first map, you need a cj. I raised it out of lazyness, to prove the rocket part. I hoped it would confuse people, so +1 me.
Ah yeah I just went and re-watched it, it certainly had me confused for a bit, I've never gotten the hang of that kind of cj.

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.16 (23:08)
by ska
well done, JP! I'm looking forward to this map breaking 160!

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.17 (03:43)
by TheRealOne
alsojp27ace wrote:
TheRealOne wrote:57-4

Are either these possible while still avoiding the rocket?

Normal (Down, Up, Down, Up): 225f --- Current route.


Wall Jump and Only One Double Jump (Up, Down, Up): 209f --- Easy, but will probably get caught by the rocket.


Double Jump to Backwards Wall Jump (Down, Up): 190f --- Definitely possible with current route, but hard and a complete run ruin-er if failed.
Woah that last one looks awesome, that would definitely be the fastest if someone can pull it off.
I tested the first one and was running into the rocket all the time, this way avoids the rocket and I found it to be slightly faster too:


Edit: Taken
Nice work JP. I had a feeling that the two options I showed weren't the only possibilities; the previous route to your 0th just seemed unnecessarily slow. Great innovation and run executing it.
alsojp27ace wrote:
vankusss wrote:Nice finds.
This is a faster beginning:


works also with the rocket:
I sat here for about a minute thinking I swear I tried that jump, before I realized you raised the ground :p
That said, you could try something like this:
Things are escalating quickly. This map definitely has a lot left in it with these innovations and some cleanliness.

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.17 (12:24)
by ska
154232 hs (used several minor innovations to secure the 0th by half a second.)

occupy xaelar

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.19 (01:05)
by alsojp27ace
For occupy xaelar, if you have a look at my 38-4 run, I'm convinced there's enough time left in cleaning to grab that first gold and still beat the same drone cycle.
My fingers just aren't quick enough for that first jump though, I hit the mine every time.

Edit: An example run with a purposefully slower start, so it's definitely possible for those of you with quick fingers:

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.19 (01:54)
by ska
alsojp27ace wrote:For occupy xaelar, if you have a look at my 38-4 run, I'm convinced there's enough time left in cleaning to grab that first gold and still beat the same drone cycle.
My fingers just aren't quick enough for that first jump though, I hit the mine every time.

Edit: An example run with a purposefully slower start, so it's definitely possible for those of you with quick fingers:
It's interesting, because I was shortlisting this 0th as a possible candidate for de-xaelaring, but I think we'd need an N veteran with expertise in mathematical networks to determine the most optimal route (or close to it.)

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.20 (16:48)
by macrohenry
82-3

Start
Current (117f):

New (crappy execution, 100f):


Gold in the middle
Current (366f):

New (355f):

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.23 (22:13)
by EddyMataGallos
Hmm, for some reason I kind of rememeber the first innov, I thought there was an MBD using that but its not in the collection.

Regarding the second one, I have a slightly faster one (349f):

That thing has much more potential though, I think. Specially by doing this:
Image
Man that must save a bunch :P

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.24 (02:11)
by ska
Woah, did Eddy just come up with an innovation by himself? Freaky.

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.24 (02:23)
by EddyMataGallos
Image

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.24 (05:38)
by ska
that's the creepiest picture of Milhouse I've ever seen...
(He looks way older...)

Re: The N Holy Mosqachurchagogue of Innovation

Posted: 2014.12.28 (04:15)
by ska
Sorry for the double post, but watch my speedrun for 162-1; it's a pretty axiomatic innovation, but if you nail it with an optimal route, there's a chunk of time to be taken off.