Re: Rot8 - v2.1 (pretty much the full game) now released!
- Legacy Elite
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Update #2: v0.5 released! See here for level editor goodness!
Update #3: v1.0 released! See here for bona fide graphics!
Update #4: v1.9 released! See here for loads of freakin' awesomeness!
Update #5: v2.1 released! See here for more levels, graphics and streamlining!
tl;dr: I'm making a game in VB.NET which I'm fairly proud of, and would like you to tell me how hard you like your N levels to be in order that I can aim to make my own game's levels of comparable difficulty.
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Hi all. Long time no see. I'm back for a while; with an unusual request and (for me, at least) exciting news.
Background info first. For the last month or so, I've rediscovered Visual Basic - as some of you may remember, it used to be something of a hobby of mine. After getting used to the .NET changes (from VB6 - aaargh!), I've been making a game idea that I've had bumping around in my head for a good few years now - N's been a heavy influence, although this is by no means a clone. I'm really rather pleased with it - I'm thinking that with some tweaking it's got some real potential, almost to the extent that the original N had; certainly to the extent of some of the comparable Flash games.
What I've made - am making - is a 2D physics-based platformer. So far, so N - but that's as far as it goes. The physics engine uses lines as platforms, which means that any angle is possible to interact with, though curves have to be built out of a series of straights. More significantly, a large majority of the 'moving about' gameplay - what I guess was filled in by walljumping in N - is based on gravity manipulation, which (as far as I'm aware) is fairly novel in a game, one or two Flash games notwithstanding. The game is also fully scrolling, in terms of both x/y transforms and rotation around the protagonist (currently a ball; every aspect of my graphics so far is mega-reductionist and probably will remain that way) in order to reflect gravity changes, which means that level size is as close to infinite as makes no difference - limited only by the speed of the code, which I've been optimising on the fly as best I can, though it'll be done over a few more times for sure.
I've also coded launch pads, mines, bouncing enemies, enemies that seek you out, enemies that follow paths, turrets that fire pretty (if reductionist!) lasers at you and a whole array of door options - and I'll be adding things as I think of them. Finally, I've made a pretty damn' comprehensive level creator to go with it - every level is (currently) saved in it's own text file, which can then be played with or edited further at your leisure.
Fairly soon, I'm going to hard-code in a few levels, throw together a very basic (and unrepresentative!) menu system and stick it up here for you guys to have a playtest and let me know what you think - I may have been gone a while, but I've been a fairly persistent lurker and've retained my high opinion of your tastes in gaming, so I'd definitely value your input. However, before I do that I'd like a favour.
I've been designing some levels with what I've got so far. While I am finding them addictive and fun, I've noticed that I'm something of a masochist when it comes to simple gaming - think I Wanna Be The Guy and being addicted to Sendy's more tougherer N levels. I'm not too bad at making flowing levels, but difficulty is definitely something that I only really have experience of what I like, not other people. So, I'm asking. What level of difficulty do you like in a game/N level?
And as I'm here: what do you think of my game as described so far? I'll try and get a playable version for y'all fairly soon, though I might keep my hands on the level editor for a while longer.
Hugs and hope.
~iangb
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feline disrespect from behind
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As for level difficulty, my opinion is that, at least with N, a level can be as easy or as difficult as it wants, as long as it's still fun to play. A wide-open, easy map with interesting tiles, good atmosphere, and maybe a bit of a gold challenge is just as valid a choice as a fast-paced, rocket-launching, white-knuckle f-bomb machine. In fact, you'll need a roster with both of these maps - and their various intermediates - to fill out a game.
Basically, as long as you can keep it fun, make it as difficult as you please. Just make sure it's the right kind of difficulty, I guess; avoid random difficulty spikes and extreme tedium, and I think you'll do just fine. ^_^
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also I'd be willing to map for it if you wish, and I'm sure other would.
~~Quotes~~
golfkid - "I beat kk on his map, and he got me within 6 seconds, then I did it again and he beat me in 12 seconds."
blue_tetris - "kkstrong was nothing, alot of people stood in his way, and he just fought against adversity, he learned he lived, and he was admin at nmaps.net for a while. He is a great mapper, and ya know, thats why he is on the short list for the mod pick."
Pheidi -" Despite a mapper's best efforts, highscorers will always find a way to defy his intentions."
- Legacy Elite
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Rot8 v0.1 (extremely alpha!)
This is a 6-level demo I've thrown together overnight. Controls are described in-game. Play about with it, and please tell me what you think! All of the levels were created in the level editor (not included) and then hard-coded into the game, which is really easy to do in vb.net. I've tried to show off all the different features/posibilities, although there's always going to be more to add.
You will need the .NET framework for the program to run. Pretty much every windows user should have it - I seem to remember it being an unavoidable update quite some time ago and it runs on my work laptop, which is a good sign - but there is a tiny chance it won't play on your PC. Macs, forget it. Sorry. Beyond that - download, unzip and run! Like N; No installer is required.
My current thoughts:
I'm not convinced on the 'jumping' function, and think it could be improved a fair amount.
I'd quite like to include a mechanic which only opens the exit after a certain number of tokens (not yet coded!) have been collected - alternately, I just need to code in a points-for-tokens system so that there is some replay/contest value.
I'd also like to introduce a time-trial system, so that the player can either go for tokens (points), speed (collecting optimum tokens en-route) or just pure speed.
Demo recording should be fairly easy to implement - and will be done as such, sooner or later. Online highscores are less likely as I know zilch about web interfacing, but that might one day change, in the distant future.
Oh, and it needs reskinning. Minimalism is grand, but I'm not a fan of the bland grey background. Seeing as I've written the code with it in mind, mondo-personalisation will be available once I get around to actually making it into a game, rather than a funky physics demo.
Enjoy!
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I will not rant, just write some flaws & goods within the game.
Mechanics/Physics
I played through the entire 6 levels, which took me about twenty minutes. The first thing I realized in the game that gravity rotating is not entirely manipulated with the physics of the ball, when I rotate the gravity it feels like the ball is sticked to the ground. I don't know what exactly you're aiming for in the physics but it kinda feels like the ground is submerged in oil and sticky stuff, but justsoyouknow, I love the way ball moves, (it speeds up a bit fast tho', you might want to fix that) smooth and easy, in-game physics are good overall, for the first version. Oh, I'm not good at word puttings, so I wrote this a bit disorganized, apologiez. Moving on. ;D
Enemies/Obstacles/Objects
You don't need too much comment for this, maybe add a gold/tokens, although the little red balls moves a bit fast (in my opinion) and you can include things like chainguns, etc. I know it would look like N, but it would be awesome when compiled with this game. A little suggestion about enemies/obstacles; you can do physic related obstacles, it would be fun to trying to get the ball through some holes, etc. Keep that in mind...
Design
I know you said that levels can be big as you want (or I understood you said that, eh, I read all the posts, no matter how long they are) but you can make level borders similar to N, and I think plain gray background is okay, but customizing it would be way more cool.
That's all! I know I pointed out more bad stuff than good stuff, apologiez, but because this is v0.1, I think this is really cool. ;D
- Depressing
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I think there are three things that would be really cool to add it this game.
1. In addiction to O and P to rotate the gravity, some keys to make the gravity rotate 90 degrees clockwise or anticlockwise would be really handy, because the two normal gravity changers are a bit slow.
2. This isn't really something you need to add, just change. I think the little guy needs to jump higher; he seems a bit useless if you don't change the gravity.
3. More gravity affected objects. At the moment the main character is the only thing seriously affected by the gravity changes; some other objects, maybe even just some blocks or something that you have to move somewhere using the gravity controls to achieve a goal would be really cool.
Other than that, this game looks really promising. Good work!
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~~Quotes~~
golfkid - "I beat kk on his map, and he got me within 6 seconds, then I did it again and he beat me in 12 seconds."
blue_tetris - "kkstrong was nothing, alot of people stood in his way, and he just fought against adversity, he learned he lived, and he was admin at nmaps.net for a while. He is a great mapper, and ya know, thats why he is on the short list for the mod pick."
Pheidi -" Despite a mapper's best efforts, highscorers will always find a way to defy his intentions."
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- La historia me absolverá
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Glad to know I wasn't the only one who first thought of this.Tsukatu wrote:Q'u kczqwca ijwcb epib bpm bpmum / jiks-abwzg gwc'zm bpqvsqvo wn nwz bpqa, qn ivg.
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- Legacy Elite
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With regards to a theme (Suki/unversezero) - I'm thinking of some sort of loose ideas based on salvaging adrift spaceships - hence the funky gravity manipulation. No real firm ideas, though.
Have the next mahoosive update. When I say 'mahoosive', I mean mahoosive. Read on...
Rot8 - v0.5 (getting-there alpha)
The levels are the same as before. However, there are two real changes.
Firstly, a small change - I've changed the jumping system a bit. Previously, jumping just added a fixed-size force vertically upwards to the ball, which made it seriously underpowered when going downhill - in most cases it wouldn't even make you move upwards, it'd just slow your vertical descent speed a little. Now, if you jump when going downhill, the force is proportional to your vertical speed such that you will always end up going upwards at a fixed speed. If you're going uphill and jump, your vertical speed will be added to rather than cancelled out and then added to - just as before. I'm still not convinced by this jumping style, but it's certainly an improvement over the previous incarnation. Something to look at for v0.6, methinks.
The mahoosive change is that I've included the level editor, which I'm moderately proud of. You can save/load levels as text files (which will be stored in the same folder as the .exe file) - these files can be edited in a fairly comprehensive fashion, and then played at your leisure. The editor itself is fairly easy to use, but has one or two features that make level creation much, much easier. Click on the spoiler below to view a quick guide to using it.
The editor has two main modes - 'ball mode' and 'line mode'. Ball mode allows you to interact with all of the circles in-game, and line mode is equally unsurprisingly titled. Once in a mode, you will be either in 'new object' or 'select object'.
'New object' displays a red ball/line, which you can move around with the mouse - this red ball/line is not an in-game object, just where one will be. Move the red ball/line to the desired location (right-click to switch the end which you control, if you are moving a line), and then click on the appropriate button to actually create an object. Many objects will require a second or even third mouseclick to set other features of the object - for example, the direction which a jump pad bounces you in, or the 'open' switch for a door. Look at the header of the level editor - it will tell you what your next click will do. Although it's possible to click on the other level editor button while you're doing this, the results would be unpredictable and I don't recommend it - later versions of the editor will prevent you from doing this.
'Select object' displays a green ball/line. This is already an in-game item - the green just indicates that it is the currently selected object. Click on any ball/line (depending on the mode) to select it. Once selected, you can move your ball/line around in the same way as described above, delete it, or turn it into a different object - for example, a closed door can become an open door, or a mine can become a homing bouncer - although, just as before, you will need to re-click to set up the features of the object.
Other features are the 'snap to line' button - this turns on/off linesnap, which automatically jumps your mouse to the nearest point on a line if you get too close to it, which makes precision levelmaking much easier. Also worth a mention is the 'bounceguides' - these balls are never displayed when you're playing the game, but if a 'guided bouncer' hits one then it will head in the direction associated with the bounceguide. To make creation of these easier, I've set things up so that rightclicking when setting the direction of a bounceguide or a guided bouncer will set the direction and then create a new bounceguide at the point of the click, ready to have it's own direction set. This makes setting up a path for the guided bouncers to follow really quite easy - just don't let a line get in the way! A final mention goes to the Q key, which will create a line/mine without you having to click on the appropriate button. There may be other keyboard shortcuts...
Included with the game is an example level to show off how the bounceguides work. Any questions, feel free to post them here!
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- "Asked ortsz for a name change"
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- Legacy Elite
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Just a minor update/bump to let you know how things are going. No updated version, though, sorry - but that's only because I want to push the next version into a 1.0 beta release, so the next update will be another fairly huge one. There's been lot's of progress already...
News so far:
Level editor is pretty much complete - I think I've included all the features I want to include, which have now stretched to include automatic doors and tokens (you can set the number of tokens needed to activate the exit, which allows for fun route-making decisions). There are also handy keyboard shortcuts, buttons which autohide so that you can make use of the full screen, and an improved layout.
The game itself has been skinned (in a very basic, proof-of-concept way) and I've rehashed the jumping mechanism - again - so that it takes note of the slope you're standing on when you make the jump. I'm still not fully happy with jumping, but it's getting much closer to being good.
Level creation is going (unsurprisingly) slowly - I've made four more decent levels and have several other works-in-progress, but it takes time - and frankly, I don't have a huge amount of that. I'm aiming to make ~50 levels to hardcode into the game proper, and I've ideas a-plenty, so that's not too worrying; I always knew that this would be the long part.
The main menu, etc hasn't changed much. I can't decide if I want a n-style menu system for selecting levels, or make an overworld a la Crystal Caves, with savepoints dotted around. So far, that's the more attractive idea, though it'll be more tricky to make. I'm probably going to use a menu system for the beta version (watch this space...) and then switch to an overworld a bit later.
Other Things to Do (some of which will be included in the next version, with any luck) are: include a stopwatch mode/setting so races through levels are possible, make a tutorial level/readme for both gameplay and level making and get demo recording/playback working. All soon to come....
As always, I <3 your feedback. Has anyone tried making a level yet? (Example levels may result in speedy v1.0 beta posting...)
- Legacy Elite
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Attached is the latest and greatest version of rot8. Bask in the updated graphics! Revel in the new how-to-win-a-level and jumping mechanisms! Marvel in the newly streamlined level editor, complete with 4 example levels that have actually been playtested! Encourage others to try and beat your framecount when beating a particular level, and triumph in reliving your most recent experience in-game!
*ahem*
Rot8 v1.0 (beta)
Actually, the above sums up the changes from 0.5 quite well. Actual graphics (hit 'v' in-game to change back to the old style), new and improved jumping, a more comprehensive level editor with four example levels (just hit 'load' and type the name of one of the maps to load it, as long as it's in the same unzipped folder as the .exe), a timer and automatic demo recording in-game.
Enjoy! Any problems, let me know - any levels you make, please share.
EDIT: Just a minor update; I included a readme file with basic instructions for playing and editing. Sorry, person-who's-already-downloaded!
EDIT2: Yes, trying to open the readme file in the level editor will generate an error message and crash the program. Error checking later.
EDIT3: LOOK GUIZ A SCREENSHOT!!!1
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- Legacy Elite
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Big things a-comin'. Jus' sayin'.
- Depressing
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I've been meaning to ask... why was this lost in the v1.0 version? I seriously noticed it on the level 'curved'.iangb wrote:The game itself has been skinned (in a very basic, proof-of-concept way) and I've rehashed the jumping mechanism - again - so that it takes note of the slope you're standing on when you make the jump. I'm still not fully happy with jumping, but it's getting much closer to being good.
Just an idea: could you perhaps make the speed at which you rotate the screen increase the longer you hold it? Not a huge amount; definitely not enough for it to have an effect on game play. I just thought it would make it look a little smoother. Oh, and make the lines a little wider. That would be nice.
Oh, by the way, keep it up. Already this is a seriously addictive game. ;)
- Legacy Elite
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It's back! Rot8 v1.9 (still just about beta) now released!
This is a mahoooosive update - as evidenced by the number increase.
Changelog (probably not complete!):
- Graphics that are actually semi-good, courtesy of my girlfriend's excellent pixelart.
- Level count seriously updated - 21 full levels and a tutorial level now included.
- User system introduced - you need to beat the previous level to unlock the next one; changing users is possible so that more than one person can play the game on one PC and still need each user to unlock all levels.
- Just done a run you liked? Save the replay as a text file and replay it later!
- Savefile/highscores implemented, so closing the game and reopening it will not affect your progress; a 'savefile' will be created in the same folder that the rot8.exe is stored in. Included in the savefile is a record of the fastest run for every level, complete with which player made it. Challenge your friends to beat your framecounts!
- Minor tweaks to level editor, etc.
Please, please, please, let me know what you think. Also feel free to boast about how fast you got around Sprint :p
Obligatory screenshot:
EDIT: Blog page now live. here
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- Depressing
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Temporary hiatus for learning and shit.
- Legacy Elite
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@Universezero: My best time on Sprint is currently ~750 frames. Just sayin' :p
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Temporary hiatus for learning and shit.
- Legacy Elite
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The game has that kind of ai,r like N, where you can be doing other things but still leave it in the background, and go back to it from time to time. I like that.
Temporary hiatus for learning and shit.
- Depressing
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What the?... How do you do that? The best I can get at the moment is 800...iangb wrote:My best time on Sprint is currently ~750 frames. Just sayin' :p
Oh, by the way; is the game going to have any background graphics or music? I think those should be included. A better main menu might be nice, with an options page as well. Oh, and a logo. Gotta have a logo.
Gameplay is fantastic. Don't go changing. ;)
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