Avatar - New interactive trailer released!

[Yoshimo]

Best damn movie I've ever seen. Nice story and science behind the theism of the people, it made sense.

[a happy song]

What gets me about Avatar is the exquisite attention to detail and reality in the odd scene, which really stand out considering the overall derivative, boring, unrealistic shittiness of the majority of the film.

For example, we have a scene where an executive suit is trying to show an officer something on a high-tech computer. He walks over to it, fiddles with it for a few moments, gets harrassed and turns to an aide, saying "can you just do this for me." Or something like that.
Not anything mind-blowingly original, but refreshing enough considering how the majority of films would have handled that scene.


Not much else to say about this film. The 3D is good and the only reason you should see Avatar, but without it, the scenery and action would be mediocre- don't believe any review that tells you that Cameron has imagined a fantastic alien world or whatver. It's pretty much a massive jungle.

Will not appeal to sci-fi fans at all, will not appeal to anyone over the age of fifteen. I reckon Avatar is proof that a freakishly huge budget is as much a curse as a blessing, Cameron probably couldn't afford to not have a generic Disney plot that appealed to as many people as possible.

I can only drool imagining what the film could have been like without budget concerns, and in the hands of a more artistic or visionary team.

Please, try not to write in absolutes and tell people what their opinions are or what's good for them. Ok, you're above Avatar, we get it. You're obviously too smart for such a simple story. Well done!

Me, well, I'm just glad I'm dumb enough to have left Avatar sweep me away on a wonderfully engaging adventure. Sure, the story was simplistic, sure it lacked exposition and characterisation, but the overall effect the film achieved for me was fun and engaging.

The flaws prevented Avatar from becoming a classic in my eyes, which is a real shame considering Cameron's previous efforts and the time he took to make this, but that doesn't change how Avatar picked me up and swept me along in a state of almost childlike awe. I'm certain the special edition will attend to many flaws concerning exposition and character development, so it doesn't bother me all that much anyway.

I'm not sure what kind of action you consider to be masterful, sky, but I for one prefer the long-panned shots and carefully considered sequencing of Avatar over the shaky-cam up-close-and-can't-see-shit bayisms that flood today's excuses for decent action. Each to their own, I suppose.

[SlappyMcGee]

Are you criticizing SkyPanda for being more intelligent than you? Or are you being ironic because he didn't like the same art as you? :/

[rocket_thumped]

One thing I've learned from this thread is that if you go into a movie theater in a negative mood about the movie you're watching, you're probably going to find something wrong with it in the end.

[a happy song]

Are you criticizing SkyPanda for being more intelligent than you? Or are you being ironic because he didn't like the same art as you? :/

I'm criticising this above it all attitude that many people have adopted to lay into this film, and, as I made quite clear, using absolutes to voice his opinion.

Will not appeal to sci-fi fans at all

will not appeal to anyone over the age of fifteen

Well, I'm a massive Sci-Fi fan. I'm 28 years old. I'm certainly not stupid and I can appreciate the more intellectual side of art just as well as the rest of you. Yet, despite all of the above, I really enjoyed Avatar.

[SlappyMcGee]

Oh, I never read his post because I figured there were spoilers. He is being a dick. But you came off in your post like, Congratulations on being intelligent! Intelligent people can't enjoy good movies.

[a happy song]

Oh, I never read his post because I figured there were spoilers. He is being a dick. But you came off in your post like, Congratulations on being intelligent! Intelligent people can't enjoy good movies.

I thought the sarcasm was obvious in context. ;_;

[SkyPanda]

What's everyone going on about intelligence for? That's not what I meant. Avatar tackles some heavy themes and is not unintelligent.

It will not appeal to anyone over the age of fifteen because it's fanciful and unrealistic. Children are more likely to swallow plot events and conclusions that will jar in the throats of adults who have been more exposed to the harsh realities of life.

I'd apologise for being unclear atob, but you jumped to the conclusions and you made the dick post. As you were, gents.

[Luminaflare]

What? 90% of the people of a full cinema I went to were over 15 because it's fanciful and unrealistic? While the movie does have a fairly simple plot it's still very well written and thought out. Cameron didn't just make a movie and chuck things in off of a clip board or something, he thought out and created an entire world, I mean you can even see convergent evolution at work (The monkey things earlier, notice how they have a fused upper arm and two fingers on each hand? Then notice how the na'vi have just one arm but 4 fingers per hand implying that at some point in time their four arms fused in to two arms) and beyond that he didn't just make up a few words for the na'vi he created a language. As for human tech I fail to see lack of realism there, the mining machine is based off of a real world one, hell the freaking space ship was actually thrusting in the opposite direction it was going in to counter inertia so as to not crash in to the planet, people have to wear oxygen masks to not fall unconcious/die outside (For those of you who didn't notice the general with the scars holds his breath), there's no fanciful laser guns or anything. All in all a lot of time and effort has been put in to this and in my opinion it has payed off.

[SkyPanda]

The aliens in Avatar were one of the biggest disappointments for me. Every single creature is essentially an earth creature with a few tentacles, feathers, limbs or flaps stuck on. There's horses, monkeys, dogs, birds, rhinocerouses... rhinocerosi... rhinoceroses... rhino things, even a fucking jellyfish. And that's supposed to be creativity? I don't think so. The only slightly non-earthlike creature was a lizard that spun around like a gyroscope and I couldn't admire it because I was so busy laughing at how ridiculously stupid it was.

The luminescent environment was interesting and very pretty.

The entire-language-for-a-movie shows dedication, but it doesn't excuse the bold orange papyrus-font subtitles splashed across the scene, ruining all atmosphere and immersion.


The realism problems with Avatar aren't with specific aspects like oxygen masks, but with plot events. LIke I said, it's in the little things that Avatar shines. Little details and brief bursts of realism that are almost drowned out in the overall poop. In real life, as Tsukatu has mentioned I believe, the humans would return in 5 years and raze the place to the ground. (perhaps that's an opening for a sequel)

Another example, Michelle Rodriguez's character. Halfway through a simple shock-and-awe strike she, as hardened soldiers tend to be, is suddenly inflicted with a burst of fanciful idealism. She flees, signing herself up for court-martial and disgrace. Well actually no, she avoids that problem by changing sides and turning her guns upon the men and women she no doubt developed friendships and bonds with in the time before she became a traitor. Very believable character.

She shares the screen with Sam Worthington, who is absolutely brilliant. He has dumb grunt down to a fine art, his character is believable, the scene where he confuses multiplication and addition.. i'm a huge fan of him after watching this movie. His dialogue is perfect.
But only when he's playing a human. In his blue hulk mode, he seems to undergo a personality change and is annoying and goofy. He's hard to connect with as big blue, probably for the same reasons that his alien sex scene was creepy and a bit revolting. It's hard to connect with somebody who isn't actually a human.

The overall plot, and message, is essentially that of Disney's Pocahontas. The bird flying scene is too similar to that of the one in Dinotopia to be enjoyable. The scene where Worthington grapples on the floor for the mask, nearly dying only to have a woman rush in and save him, we watched a while back in Iron Man. The huge battle scenes are from Star Wars- the slow motion scene where a blue dude attacks humans in the back of a ship, I could swear there's an identical scene in SW Episode III (minus the ship).

[a happy song]

I'd apologise for being unclear atob, but you jumped to the conclusions and you made the dick post. As you were, gents.

The connotations of telling us that only 15 year olds would enjoy the movie implies a state of lesser intelligence of awareness is needed to fully enjoy it. Don't play coy.

I didn't call you a dick before, but you're certainly being one now by throwing the insults about.

-

Another example, Michelle Rodriguez's character. Halfway through a simple shock-and-awe strike she, as hardened soldiers tend to be, is suddenly inflicted with a burst of fanciful idealism. She flees, signing herself up for court-martial and disgrace. Well actually no, she avoids that problem by changing sides and turning her guns upon the men and women she no doubt developed friendships and bonds with in the time before she became a traitor. Very believable character.

Two things:

There would be no court-marshal, she would have simply been fired. These aren't military, they're a private security force made up of mercenaries who are in it for the money and bloodshed. This was made clear at every point in the movie. Trudy was an anomaly.

Who's to say Trudy made any bonds with the other Marines? She seemed much more of a loan wolf to me, and seemed to share Jake and the scientist's awe and fascination with the planet from the start. I'll admit her development was the most lacking in the entire film, but it was hardly unrealistic. I'm pretty sure Cameron's inevitable Special Edition will shed light on her a little more.

And you could pick apart pretty much any mainstream big-budget movie the way you have done and compare it to a dozen others. The links you made are tenuous at best anyway and add no real validity to your argument.

[Winter_Red_Snow]

I might watch it. It seems pretty good, how they transform the guy and all. Might just watch it on Christmas Eve or sum'in.

[SlappyMcGee]

I'm fucking confused. Don't people go to the cinema to be fanciful and escape reality? Aren't the roots of are deeply tied with escapism? Wasn't the Lord of the Rings, a clearly homosexual film about two midgets, their engagement ring, a weird old pedophile, two more closeted midgets, some disturbing bikers, a blonde dude who was shaped just a but too much like a penis, and a fat guy the most popular trilogy of the decade? Because it was so fanciful?

[SkyPanda]

Don't people go to the cinema to be fanciful and escape reality?

Was ready for this one. ;P
There's such a thing as too much yeah?
Let's imagine there's a scale, one one side, "vomit-inducing", on the other side "suicide-inducing".

Vomit-inducing: After the last battle, Sully and his cohorts journey to the tree of life, where they ressurrect everyone who died in combat, including the humans. The humans attend a school run by the aliens, where they learn to love trees. The humans leave the alien planet and head on back home to earth, to spread this message of peace and appreciation of nature. A fanciful escape from reality.

Suicide-inducing: The aliens are decimated in the final battle. Sully is executed, along with his fellow traitors. The surviving aliens are enslaved and shipped to earth to be circus freaks, while the company sucks the alien planet dry. A shampoo is created which uses the aliens for marketing. The last alien dies fifteen years later. Realistic.

A good movie falls somewhere in between. Avatar sits too far towards vomit-inducing to be enjoyable. This will not be the same for everyone.


Atob, shush already. Jumping to conclusions and using sarcasm on me is bad enough, but now you're telling me my own opinions and intentions? Weren't you saying something earlier about not telling people their opinions? Also, I don't take lessons on connotation from people who use phrases such as "court marshal" and "loan wolf" .
It's great that you love the movie man, and I don't disrespect that. However, you need to realise that not everyone will, I can have my opinion, and I don't like being attacked for it. Pick a fight with someone else.

[SlappyMcGee]

"loan wolf" .

I have an idea for a sitcom.

[a happy song]

Atob, shush already. Jumping to conclusions and using sarcasm on me is bad enough, but now you're telling me my own opinions and intentions? Weren't you saying something earlier about not telling people their opinions? Also, I don't take lessons on connotation from people who use phrases such as "court marshal" and "loan wolf" .
It's great that you love the movie man, and I don't disrespect that. However, you need to realise that not everyone will, I can have my opinion, and I don't like being attacked for it. Pick a fight with someone else.

Oh, so a couple of simple typos and you use that as another way to personally attack me and call me stupid? Don't be malicious.

I am not in any way telling you to not have the opinion you do. I didn't say that once. I merely criticised the way you used absolutes to further your points. Clearly that's not a great way to carry a debate. Why are you even trying to defend it? When coupled with the previous claim that Avatar will not appeal to sci-fi fans, stating that 15 year old children will be the only ones to enjoy this film carries very clear connotations of perceived superiority.

You're right, I shouldn't have used the sarcasm to begin with, but you should have conducted your opinion in a less antagonistic manner. Fail on both counts.

[SlappyMcGee]

I don't think either of you guys get what is wrong with this verbal sparring. It's not that SkyPanda thinks that only fifteen year olds will enjoy films, or that astheoceansblue is an insomniac. You both need to mellow out and not take offense to the idea the opinions of eachother. If SkyPanda genuinely thinks this movie is for fifteen year olds, then he's entitled to that opinion, and you guys hardly seem intent on arguing the merits of the film but rather the merits of your arguments.

And you shouldn't be criticizing Pandy's debate form, because we're not in Politics and Debate, and you 100% are not debating proper yourself. Are you telling him his opinion isn't valid if he can't prove it concretely? It seems to me that he's done well enough to justify why he feels the way he does, whether he is correct or not.

[a happy song]

I don't think either of you guys get what is wrong with this verbal sparring. It's not that SkyPanda thinks that only fifteen year olds will enjoy films, or that astheoceansblue is an insomniac. You both need to mellow out and not take offense to the idea the opinions of eachother. If SkyPanda genuinely thinks this movie is for fifteen year olds, then he's entitled to that opinion, and you guys hardly seem intent on arguing the merits of the film but rather the merits of your arguments.

And you shouldn't be criticizing Pandy's debate form, because we're not in Politics and Debate, and you 100% are not debating proper yourself. Are you telling him his opinion isn't valid if he can't prove it concretely? It seems to me that he's done well enough to justify why he feels the way he does, whether he is correct or not.

Nono, and you agreed with me above that the quoted passages were dickish statements. SINCE making those initial statements, he's clarified things and that's cool.

This is the problem with putting forward opinions as absolutes.

I am being slightly irritable though, lack of sleep, apologies for that.

[chume14]

Just saw the movie Avatar (in 3D) on Monday and I must say despite the fact that I wasn't particularly psyched for it I quite enjoyed it. The visuals were very impressive and the storyline was actually more logical and realistic than many sci-fi films and than I expected. I do however think I would have preferred the 'suicide inducing' version though, my enjoyment and emotional involvement with the film peaked about 2 thirds of the way through when the humans were destroying the peaceful world of their own ignorance and the main character realised that he could not truely be accepted as something he wasn't. At this point I thought the film had some really interesting clear messages on humanity and waste which got all convoluted when the aliens stopped being peaceful and fought back and managed to actually defeat the modern army with birds and bows and magic nature and eventually even machine guns and grenades. It just seemed like the film pitted ignorant violent humanity against humane beautiful nature a fight which nature was bound to lose and then once they were losing made nature violent and random to so that they could narrowly win. I don't think I''ve explained my point very well but whatever. Despite that and the sickly sweetness of the film I did really enjoy it and I've been thinking about some parts particularly the innovative anatomic designs of the creatures ever since. Its not one of my favourite films ever but it is very different from most films currently coming out and very fun.

[SkyPanda]

lack of sleep

Did you just say my sister looks like a sheep?

[Drathmoore]

I'm more worried about this, from Wikipedia:

"In early 2006, Cameron developed the script, the language, and the culture of Pandora. He has stated that if Avatar is successful, two sequels to the film are planned."

And if we then see how well it's done:

"Worldwide, the film grossed an estimated $232,180,000 its opening weekend, the ninth largest opening-weekend gross of all time, and the largest for a non-franchise, non-sequel and original film."

Which means, chances are, there will be two sequels.

I thought it was alright on it's own as a film, but really, a sequel? I don't see a sequel being at all beneficial. Where can they go from here? The Na'vi go on to destroy Earth? Earth launches a full-scale invasion? Another alien race appears from nowhere, and so Na'vi and Human have to work together to survive?

I really can't see it going well from here.

[Luminaflare]

Eh, Terminator 2 was pretty damn good and I imagine quite a few people had the same thought when it was announced or whatever. I do get your point though.

[a happy song]

Eh, Terminator 2 was pretty damn good and I imagine quite a few people had the same thought when it was announced or whatever. I do get your point though.

Yeh, Cameron has made two of the greatest sequels of all time. I'm not so worried.

Also I think now that all t he tech is developed for Avatar, Cameron will probably be able to focus more on other aspects such as characterisation and the story in general. I'm pretty sure that the majority of the time developing this was spent on the visuals and technology, which is why it's a little flawed in other ways.

Also you can look at this as Cameron warming up after 12 years away.

I can only see it being an improvement.

[Tunco]

Eh, Terminator 2 was pretty damn good and I imagine quite a few people had the same thought when it was announced or whatever. I do get your point though.

Terminator Salvation was the worst moive in the series -and one of the worst movie of this year.

I agree with you though.

[Luminaflare]

Eh, Terminator 2 was pretty damn good and I imagine quite a few people had the same thought when it was announced or whatever. I do get your point though.

Terminator Salvation was the worst moive in the series -and one of the worst movie of this year.

I agree with you though.

Tunco you're missing the point, James Cameron did what is considered by quite a lot of people the best movies in a series (Aliens, T1 and T2). He most definitely didn't do salvation.