Who would win in a fight? A very EPIC fight?

[Torex]

Why did my comment about the fact that the Star Wars universe has two world destroyers of its own go unnoticed? Galactus has to, like, eat planets to survive. The Empire doesn't care what planet they destroy, as long as they aren't affected by it being destroyed. They can go around and starve Galactus. And the Star Forge… yungerkid is right. It literally can make an unlimited fleet of droids and ships and weapons. It was destroyed when it got pulled into a star. A star that it was drawing its matter and energy from. And still keeping in mind that this is everything from each universe we're talking about here, there's the Yuuzhan Vong. They didn't even have mechanical technology. They had organic shit and nearly conquered the galaxy. They also loved pain. And could crash moons into their planets. And Wookies are so badass that one of them tries pissing off one of those moons when it's about to completely obliterate him.

Star Wars wins.

EDIT: Oh, and so does Luke Skywalker.

[Atilla]

I agree. What the hell are people who can deflect blaster shots back at the person who fired them going to to about eye beams? Perhaps they think they can just wave their hand and make him forget they're even there? The fools.

Right, as if the Jedi would do anything but sit around and debate, stopping only to admonish the only Jedi with the balls to act. If it was an all-star team of Qui-Gon Jin, Han Solo, Chewbacca, and Jolee Bindo, I might give it to the Star Wars universe. The Jedi at large? Don't even joke.

And then they'd kidnap Wolverine, wipe his memories, and send him off to kill Kirk. While blathering about him going down a path which is all too familiar.

Also, the Jedi as a whole don't need to do anything. It's part of their sinister plan - the whole Council is just a mechanism to pump out people like Revan and Kyle Katarn.

[a happy song]

Why did my comment about the fact that the Star Wars universe has two world destroyers of its own go unnoticed? Galactus has to, like, eat planets to survive. The Empire doesn't care what planet they destroy, as long as they aren't affected by it being destroyed. They can go around and starve Galactus. And the Star Forge… yungerkid is right. It literally can make an unlimited fleet of droids and ships and weapons. It was destroyed when it got pulled into a star. A star that it was drawing its matter and energy from. And still keeping in mind that this is everything from each universe we're talking about here, there's the Yuuzhan Vong. They didn't even have mechanical technology. They had organic shit and nearly conquered the galaxy. They also loved pain. And could crash moons into their planets. And Wookies are so badass that one of them tries pissing off one of those moons when it's about to completely obliterate him.

Star Wars wins.

EDIT: Oh, and so does Luke Skywalker.

Galactus can instantaneously teleport himself to any place in the entire universe. The entire universe. Yes, he has to eat planets to survive, but the power he gets from one planet would be enough to blink the star forge and its star out of existence with a mere nod in its direction.

I guessed you missed that Galactus is pretty much a god who has complete control over all matter, complete control over life and death, can commune with abstract beings such as Death and Eternity, and can appear at any point in the universe at any given time.

So yes, the Star Forge can destroy a god....

all of Marvel seems like fan-fiction, because of how over-dramatic, contrived, and senseless it seems. there are a thousand flipping world destroyers in Marvel. and then of course, just to further the plot, there needs to be another one that is capable of beating them all. it's just too commercial and too focused on the wow factor.

For a start, I like Marvel, but I like Star Wars, and Star Trek too. I'm not being a fanboy, I'm trying to look at this objectively, at the RAW POWER each universe contains. It doesn't matter how flamboyant or ridiculously overpowered one universe might be to another, all that matters is the RAW POWER of the inhabitants of the universe, and the scale of that power.

So let's not bicker about who's dad is the toughest, please :)

So anyway...

A thousand world destroyers? No, there's Galactus, and his motives aren't Good or Evil, he's ambiguous. So end of. There are great powers that threaten the Earth and other planets (like the Shi'ar crystal and the Age Of Apocalypse), but you'll find that in every sci-fi fantasy universe that's kind of the point: unstoppable force overcome by bravery, honour, etc... the timeless notions that all these stories are written about.

Also, SWs has the Star Forge, the numerous Death Stars, etc... so the whole world destroyer thing is a pointless argument. There will always be one more 'bigger threat than the last guy' situation, or these universes (which are entirely built on the notion of conflict) would get boring pretty quick.

If there is no god like being in the SWs universe that can manage the power of Galactus, though (and I'm pretty sure the force itself doesn't have a body, or mind, nor can it grant the power that Galactus commands), then the Marvel universe wins.

Ground Level:
Jedi such as Luke, Anakin, Obi-Wan Vs. Super Powered beings such as Professor X, Magneto, X-Man = Marvel Victory. Jedi mind tricks and a few force powers against massive psionic power and control of all metal (including the metal in your blood stream) = no chance. Stop being silly.

Most powerful beings in each universe:
Star Wars - you tell me
Marvel - Galactus, The Celestials, these guys, etc..)
Star Wars - Q

-

7am /geekout ftw :D

[yungerkid]

If there is no god like being in the SWs universe that can manage the power of Galactus, though (and I'm pretty sure the force itself doesn't have a body, or mind, nor can it grant the power that Galactus commands), then the Marvel universe wins.

the Force does have a will. it is an entity. and it has much the same powers as Galactus has. it's just that anyone can gain those powers.

edit: 400th post.

[the_happy_taco]

none of these are in my vote

it would eather be
Chuck Norris
Bruce Lee
or the A Team

[a happy song]

If there is no god like being in the SWs universe that can manage the power of Galactus, though (and I'm pretty sure the force itself doesn't have a body, or mind, nor can it grant the power that Galactus commands), then the Marvel universe wins.

the Force does have a will. it is an entity. and it has much the same powers as Galactus has. it's just that anyone can gain those powers.

Can you show me any piece of text or point me in the direction of some to show this? I've read numerous Star Wars novels, and have never come across anything it indicate what you're claiming.

[yungerkid]

excuse the fanboy-i-ness, but i'm real up on Darth Traya's teachings. Darth Traya said, "I hate that [the Force] seems to have a will, and is controlling all of us, all of this, to accomplish that will." Darth Traya, in Knights of the Old Republic 2, noted that the Force is an entity that has a will and uses all life to accomplish ultimate balance. she also noted that the Force has no true "light side" or "dark side", and that those are merely mindsets of the people wielding the Force. i haven't read any Star Wars novel. she used the Jedi Exile to wound the Force and to ultimately foil its will. that's pretty much the entire video game summed up.

[SlappyMcGee]

excuse the fanboy-i-ness, but i'm real up on Darth Traya's teachings. Darth Traya said, "I hate that [the Force] seems to have a will, and is controlling all of us, all of this, to accomplish that will." Darth Traya, in Knights of the Old Republic 2, noted that the Force is an entity that has a will and uses all life to accomplish ultimate balance. she also noted that the Force has no true "light side" or "dark side", and that those are merely mindsets of the people wielding the Force. i haven't read any Star Wars novel. she used the Jedi Exile to wound the Force and to ultimately foil its will. that's pretty much the entire video game summed up.

Ahaha. It's fantastic that you think that something in a video game with thousands of endings can both be summed up in a paragraph as well as sit as canon. :P

[Cerberus]

Marvel would definitely win.

[yungerkid]

@slappymcgee: there are only two possible endings. i just this last week beat the game for my 31st time. i know it cold. it can essentially be summed up in a paragraph. and it is canon. George Lucas stated that anything can be canon, as long as it does not contradict movie material. i got that from wookiepedia, which is the definitive source for what's canon and what isn't as far as i'm concerned. now, i'm not saying Darth Traya's philosophies can be summed up in a single paragraph (although they can be), and the plot is so complex that a general overview really doesn't do the game justice. but overall, the game can be summed up thus: Darth Traya wishes to use the Jedi Exile to enact the death of the Force, or at least its wounding. she does this by making her (the exile) stronger, and by presenting her with all the right tools for realizing that she is the only one that can fulfill Lord Traya's hope. ultimately, through the bond between the Exile and Darth Traya, and because Darth Traya is killed at Malachor, this wound is enacted, although the Exile may or may not realize it (i'm not sure what the canon version is). but there are only two endings.

[Atilla]

excuse the fanboy-i-ness, but i'm real up on Darth Traya's teachings. Darth Traya said, "I hate that [the Force] seems to have a will, and is controlling all of us, all of this, to accomplish that will." Darth Traya, in Knights of the Old Republic 2, noted that the Force is an entity that has a will and uses all life to accomplish ultimate balance. she also noted that the Force has no true "light side" or "dark side", and that those are merely mindsets of the people wielding the Force. i haven't read any Star Wars novel. she used the Jedi Exile to wound the Force and to ultimately foil its will. that's pretty much the entire video game summed up.

Not everyone in the Star Wars universe agrees about the nature of the Force, so relying on what one character says isn't a good idea. Also said character is a traitor, a Sith Lord, and a shameless manipulator, and thus perhaps not the most reliable source of information in the universe. Then again Obi-Wan said Luke's father was betrayed and killed by Darth Vader, so I guess you can't trust anyone.

[yungerkid]

Atilla, Darth Traya was not a Sith Lord. to quote her, "'Sith' is a title yes, but like you, the title is not who i am. it is not what i fight for". she did lie on many occasions throughout her travels. but she did so in order to manipulate the Exile. her ultimate goals were the death of the Force, and the training of one greater than herself (to use to bring the Jedi to their senses regarding their Jedi Code, and to keep the Sith from destroying the galaxy unchecked). those goals stemmed from her ideas regarding the nature of the Force. she would not lie about these core ideas. the idea that the Force has a will is an idea that she perpetuated with her actions, her speeches, and, ultimately, even through those she manipulated. she did not lie about that. and, seeing as she was a wise enough Force-user to predict the death of Jango Fett at the hands of Mace Windu around 2000 (5000? i can never remember which) years later, i think she would be one of the forefront Force-users to turn to regarding the nature of the Force. i mean, if she didn't know the nature of the Force, no one else would have. she herself said, "i use it as i would a poison, in the hopes that through understanding it, i may know how to kill it". and, if you look at it, no one else that i can think of right off hand ever denies this thesis. no one of significance denies explicitly or implicitly that the Force has a will. in fact, some support it. i'm too lazy to think of examples right now, but i know they're out there.

Obi-wan was not lying when he said that Luke's father was betrayed and killed by Darth Vader. Darth Vader (the real Darth Vader; the soul of Darth Vader) was, in essence, Anakin's passions and dark emotions, that had always been there, had always been an evil element to cloud his judgment. but Darth Vader took over and betrayed Anakin, killing him by making him a slave to his emotions (and the Emperor's will and dark side influence). so Obi-wan was correct when he said that Anakin was betrayed and murdered by Darth Vader.

[Atilla]

Atilla, Darth Traya was not a Sith Lord. to quote her, "'Sith' is a title yes, but like you, the title is not who i am. it is not what i fight for".

Right. And Kyle Katarn is not a Jedi Master, because he prefers "Kyle" to "Master Kyle". The fact is that even though Traya may not like it or think of herself in those terms, she was regarded as a Sith Lord and did the appropriate things to be considered a Sith Lord. She even got betrayed by her own apprentice, which is almost as Sith-like as being thrown down a reactor shaft.

Obi-wan was not lying when he said that Luke's father was betrayed and killed by Darth Vader. Darth Vader (the real Darth Vader; the soul of Darth Vader) was, in essence, Anakin's passions and dark emotions, that had always been there, had always been an evil element to cloud his judgment. but Darth Vader took over and betrayed Anakin, killing him by making him a slave to his emotions (and the Emperor's will and dark side influence). so Obi-wan was correct when he said that Anakin was betrayed and murdered by Darth Vader.

Only if you subscribe to some ridiculous notion where someone's emotions are an entirely separate entity to the rest of that person. Alternately, Obi-Wan could admit that his apprentice turned evil, rather than suggesting his flaws were some kind of demonic possession or something, and not part of Anakin's character. Plus, as TV Tropes notes, it was clear that Luke "misinterpreted" Obi-Wan's statement and Obi-Wan did not explain or correct him, thus making it clear that Obi-Wan is a dishonest git.

Other famous Obi-Wan sayings include "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise" and "These are not the droids you are looking for." Clearly the man is a compulsive liar... from a certain point of view.

[yungerkid]

she was regarded as a Sith Lord only because she was a Sith Lord for a time. unknown to many, she then turned from that path, and became neutral. at her death, she was a gray Jedi (meaning neither Jedi nor Sith). she was manipulative, but not cruel or compassionate. she only did what was reasonable. she did not subscribe to the Sith code, and advised the Exile against letting her passions control her actions at several points in the game. she was not a Sith Lord. in fact, the Sith cast her out. Lord Nihilus and Lord Sion threw her out of Trayus Academy, and she became an exile from the Sith. hardly what i would call a Lord of the Sith. anyways, my point remains; Darth Traya is a highly authoritative source over the nature of the Force, and she and her teachings are part of Star Wars canon.

Anakin was a Jedi. Jedi were not supposed to let their emotions control their actions. that is the difference between a Jedi and a Sith. Jedi do not let their passion control their actions. Sith let their passion completely control their actions. gray Jedi, like Jolee Bindo, allow their emotions to control their actions, but not their passion. anyway, Anakin's passions and emotions were supposed to be separate from him. and indeed they were, for a while, when he was a Jedi. but they overtook him, and became him. and that was when he died. so you bet they were a separate entity from him. yes, but it is also true that Obi-wan told the truth, and not correcting a false assumption is not what i call a dishonest act. besides, Obi-wan had a good reason for doing what he did. and yeah, Obi-wan lied quite a bit (in other statements). there's nothing in the Jedi Code that says that lying is bad. as far as i know, lying is perfectly morally acceptable in the Star Wars Universe.

[Atilla]

Anakin was a Jedi. Jedi were not supposed to let their emotions control their actions. that is the difference between a Jedi and a Sith. Jedi do not let their passion control their actions. Sith let their passion completely control their actions. gray Jedi, like Jolee Bindo, allow their emotions to control their actions, but not their passion. anyway, Anakin's passions and emotions were supposed to be separate from him. and indeed they were, for a while, when he was a Jedi. but they overtook him, and became him. and that was when he died. so you bet they were a separate entity from him. yes, but it is also true that Obi-wan told the truth, and not correcting a false assumption is not what i call a dishonest act. besides, Obi-wan had a good reason for doing what he did. and yeah, Obi-wan lied quite a bit (in other statements). there's nothing in the Jedi Code that says that lying is bad. as far as i know, lying is perfectly morally acceptable in the Star Wars Universe.

Before he was a Jedi, Anakin clearly had emotions. Would it be accurate to say, then, that the Jedi killed the original Anakin? Should we have been calling that little kid Darth Vader this whole time, because he had emotions? In fact, since everyone has emotions before the Jedi come and nerve staple enlighten them, and those emotions make them a separate person, I think it's fair to say that the Jedi are constantly killing people.

Also, deliberately misleading people is clearly dishonest. Obi-Wan knew he would be misinterpreted, which is why he said what he did - otherwise he would have just said something that was actually clear, like "Your father was a Jedi but was lost to the Dark Side." And I'd be much more willing to accept that Obi-Wan had a good reason for doing what he did if he had said "Sorry I mislead you, but I didn't think telling you Darth Vader was your father would be good for your mental health at that point," instead of trying to weasel his way out of it.

she was regarded as a Sith Lord only because she was a Sith Lord for a time. unknown to many, she then turned from that path, and became neutral. at her death, she was a gray Jedi (meaning neither Jedi nor Sith). she was manipulative, but not cruel or compassionate. she only did what was reasonable. she did not subscribe to the Sith code, and advised the Exile against letting her passions control her actions at several points in the game. she was not a Sith Lord. in fact, the Sith cast her out. Lord Nihilus and Lord Sion threw her out of Trayus Academy, and she became an exile from the Sith. hardly what i would call a Lord of the Sith. anyways, my point remains; Darth Traya is a highly authoritative source over the nature of the Force, and she and her teachings are part of Star Wars canon.

So her beliefs have been condemned as inaccurate/harmful/stupid by both Jedi and Sith, the two most prominent groups for study and teaching of the Force. Also, being a part of canon doesn't mean she's right. Palpatine is also an authoritative Force user who is part of Star Wars canon and I'm pretty sure he's canonically been wrong (or lying) about the nature of the Force. As I said before, lots of characters have their own opinion about the Force and they can't all be right.

[a happy song]

Still point in case: no Jedi, nor group of Jedi could gather enough power to take on a being like Galactus. Not as part of the canon, anyway. If you can prove that wrong, then feel free. Rest is moot ;)

[SlappyMcGee]

Still point in case: no Jedi, nor group of Jedi could gather enough power to take on a being like Galactus. Not as part of the canon, anyway. If you can prove that wrong, then feel free. Rest is moot ;)

Isn't Galactus fucking -dead-? At the hands of some space travellers who went too far, even? Ridiculous.

[a happy song]

Still point in case: no Jedi, nor group of Jedi could gather enough power to take on a being like Galactus. Not as part of the canon, anyway. If you can prove that wrong, then feel free. Rest is moot ;)

Isn't Galactus fucking -dead-? At the hands of some space travellers who went too far, even? Ridiculous.

Oh man, who even cares anymore. Yungerkid and Atilla sucked all the fun out of this ;_;

[Atilla]

Oh man, who even cares anymore. Yungerkid and Atilla sucked all the fun out of this ;_;

I'm really just here to eat popcorn and rag on Obi-Wan. And I'm all out of popcorn.

Really, Obi-Wan is a such loser. He wants to be Qui-Gon, but he's so much less cool. Also he was clearly influenced by the Dark Side, since his own apprentice turned on him and we all know that's a Sith favourite. And no wonder since he goes around being dishonest all the time. Probably Anakin was afraid Obi-Wan would stab him in the back first, after they start with the lying and the weasel words it's only a matter of time.

[the_happy_taco]

all these random facts

all i have to say is god said "BOOOOM i win"

[yungerkid]

bah, atob, if you want an example, i can't give you one. i know the Star Wars universe very well; i used to study it. fanboy stuff dontchaknow. and there are no characters that are ever one with the Force during their lives. so there are no beings as powerful as Galactus. but what i was saying was that it is possible for a Force-user to gain that kind of power.

and atilla, it would be accurate to say that. the little kid was not Darth Vader because he was not controlled by his passions. Anakin was separated completely from passion, and thus he was killed. bah, i'll just leave this alone.

[a happy song]

bah, atob, if you want an example, i can't give you one. i know the Star Wars universe very well; i used to study it. fanboy stuff dontchaknow. and there are no characters that are ever one with the Force during their lives. so there are no beings as powerful as Galactus. but what i was saying was that it is possible for a Force-user to gain that kind of power.

It might be possible, but noone has. Therefore there is no being in the SWs universe who could stand up to the most powerful in the Marvel universe.

It's a really silly argument anyway, and I'm all geeked out.

[bobaganuesh_2]

PLUS, Batman has the cool factor. And maybe Iron Man. Not Spiderman. But Wolverine, too. Edit: Fucking Rorschach.

From an outside perspective, I doubt anyone in the Star Trek universe has any cool factor whatsoever.

Rorschach is DC

Batman is .. ?