Sudoku

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Do you do Sudoku?

Yes
14
44%
Only the easy ones
4
13%
No
14
44%
 
Total votes: 32

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Postby Nexx » 2009.04.15 (14:03)

scythe33 wrote:What's my damn prize?
999_Springs wrote:And, by the way, if anyone can do the 9.0 puzzle in my loading signature WITHOUT guessing, they'll get a prize.
Guessing means "Does this work? Nope. Does this work? Nope. Does this work? Nope. Does this work? Yes!" Your method doesn't involve deductive reasoning using the numbers that are already there to obtain the rest of the numbers... unless I totally missed something.

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Postby 999_Springs » 2009.04.15 (17:12)

I'm not going to get into a debate about what is guessing and what is trial-and-error (that's not quite as dubious as guessing) and what is logic in terms of solving puzzles. Such things have been debated in the past and have resulted in... nothing at best. But from what I can see, it looks like scythe33 has considered all possible cases of all the cells in blocks 1, 2, 3, 5, and 8. That's fine (I might post an example of how a similar method might be useful) as long as he does something with them that isn't just guessing which one works out right, which is what he does. What I would recommend as a better method is seeing what you already have, which is that f = h = 2 because you can see this in all 4 cases, and the puzzle then becomes somewhat easier (rated 7.2) and a short contradiction chain is enough to finish it off. I don't have a problem with short contradiction chains.
smartalco wrote:999: do you have a simpler method?
So I attacked the puzzle myself and this is what I got.

3b5 is locked in c5 => r8c5<>3

4b8 is locked in r8 => r8c28<>4

r8c5-1-r56c5=1=r5c4-1-r1c4-4-r8c4=4=r8c5 => r8c5<>1

r5c5(-2-r5c4-1-r1c4-4-r1c1)(-2-r6c5)-2-r2c5=2=r2c8-2-r6c8=2=r6c1=4=r7c1-4-r7c78=4=r9c9-4-r5c9=4=r5c2-4-r2c2-1-r2c5-4-r8c5-2-r5c5 => r5c5<>2

r9c2(-4-r7c1)-4-r2c2(-1-r1c1)-1-r2c5=1=r56c5-1-r5c4-2-r5c2(-2-r6c5)=2=r8c2(-2-r7c1)(=3=r8c8-3-r7c8)-2-r8c5-4-r2c5=4=r1c4(-4-r2c5)-4-r1c1(-3-r7c1-1-r7c8)=4=r6c1=2=r6c8-2-r7c8-4-r2c8=2=r2c2-2-r9c2 => r9c2<>4

Turbot Fish (why are some solving techniques named after aquatic wildlife? I don't know) 4r59 => r6c3<>4

Turbot Fish 4c2r6 => r2c8<>4

r3c7(-2-r3c6-1-r1c4)-2-r2c8(-1-r3c9)-1-r1c7=1=r1c1(=3=r3c3-3-r3c9)-1-r2c2-4-r5c2=4=r5c9-4-r3c9-2-r3c7 => r3c7<>2

r78c8-2-r2c8-1-r2c2(-4-r2c5-2-r6c5)-4-r5c2=4=r6c1=2=r6c8-2-r78c8 => r78c8<>2

Turbot Fish 2r3b9 => r7c6<>2

Finned Mutant Swordfish 3r14c8\c1b69 with fin r1c7 => r7c7<>3 (Whatever you do please DON'T ask me how that got its name. I DON'T KNOW.)

r9c9-2-r7c7(=2=r4c7-3)=2=r7c1(-13)=4=r9c3=1=r89c2-1-r2c2(-4-r5c2(=4=r6c1-3)=4=r5c9(-3)-4-r3c9)-4-r2c5=4=r1c4-4-r1c7=4=r3c7=3=r1c7(-3-r3c9)-3-r1c1=3=r4c1-3-r4c9=3=r9c9 => r9c9<>2

r7c7=2

2b7 is locked in c2 => r5c2<>2

4c7 is locked in b3 => r3c9<>4

Bidirectional X-Cycle 4r59c1 => r1c1<>4

Almost-Locked Sets XY-Wing Rule: ALS A = 124r2c28; ALS B = 124r1c4r2c5; ALS C = 134r5c25; x=2; y=4; z=1 => r5c4<>1 (I think there may be something slightly dodgy about this because 1r5c4 doesn't see all the ones in B and C, but nonetheless it still works.)

r5c4=2

easy from this point onwards

(Well, "r" stands for row, "c" for column, and "b" for block. The top row is row 1 and the bottom row is row 9. The left column is column 1 and the right column is column 9. The blocks are arranged as in scythe33's illustration. The chain notation is... well... something you'll have to look up yourself. It did take me ages to get the hang of chain notation when I was learning it, though.)

9.0-rated puzzles are ridiculously hard. I'll post something easier later.
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Postby scythe » 2009.04.15 (17:18)

Avarin wrote:
scythe33 wrote:What's my damn prize?
999_Springs wrote:And, by the way, if anyone can do the 9.0 puzzle in my loading signature WITHOUT guessing, they'll get a prize.
Guessing means "Does this work? Nope. Does this work? Nope. Does this work? Nope. Does this work? Yes!" Your method doesn't involve deductive reasoning using the numbers that are already there to obtain the rest of the numbers... unless I totally missed something.
The whole set-intersections part, which was the basis for the entire solution? You missed that?
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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2009.04.15 (20:36)

scythe33 wrote:
Avarin wrote:
scythe33 wrote:What's my damn prize?
999_Springs wrote:And, by the way, if anyone can do the 9.0 puzzle in my loading signature WITHOUT guessing, they'll get a prize.
Guessing means "Does this work? Nope. Does this work? Nope. Does this work? Nope. Does this work? Yes!" Your method doesn't involve deductive reasoning using the numbers that are already there to obtain the rest of the numbers... unless I totally missed something.
The whole set-intersections part, which was the basis for the entire solution? You missed that?
Yeah, but... uh... you... you guessed that the relevant axioms of set theory held, so... yeah.
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Postby Sniperwhere » 2009.04.15 (21:28)

I don't do it as much anymore, but when I do, I head for the hardest ones.


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