Project: Metagame - Join and contribute!

http://nmaps.net/user/condog_111 · Postby **Condog** » 2008.10.29 (20:20)

Woah, that looks sweet! Definitely go for two colour out of those two.

Also, i'm not liking the alien protagonist idea. It doesn't really fit with the other two.

And for names, call them Astro and Rob.

http://nmaps.net/user/geti · Postby **Geti** » 2008.10.29 (20:55)

rob has been kinda overdone..
#29403? :P
spring-ergy?... sorry, i just dont like springs much, unless theyre done artily.

Re:ratchet and clank idea: we cant copy people! i dont think having a robot strap itself to the back of another character is a good idea for this either.. im more partial to the idea of having a general hub (your ship) and being able to split up as a group, good for puzzles but not so much for action unless the AI is decent.
i do like the idea of astro though. hes cool. if the alien had a cuter eye, that would be cool. like bit and anime/azn-ish.
i suppose the stay together as a group mechanic could work with the alien floating along with you, #29403 strapped to your back but innable to help, and astro wielding the weapons, that could be picked up.

while you were playing as #29403; astro would be able to shoot from his back, as a turret (using the normal aiming mechanics, whatever they are.
while playing as astro you would just wield the weapon as per normal.
the alien could provide your HP with a telekinetic overshield at all times (yay inspiration) and carry around the other two in an inert bubble when you were in "hover mode", maybe using them as a club, or at least as a shield, as the alien would be more vulnerable when lifting people (mind being exerted on lifting the other nublins)

yes? id like that. that would make the strapped together mechanic alright.
i heart #29403 being the robot. that's cool. [/musing. again.]
i like the robots only idea still, but if we are going with a human, robot, and alien, ill embrace that..

Postby **mattk210** » 2008.10.30 (05:16)

I like only robots, or only people. Robots are more interesting functionally, people (astronauts) stand out better. That alien doesn't fit. It's a lot more elegant to have the characters share a common design and just have different colors/attachments like condog's (excellent) robot designs. Geti's ideas about the characters interacting while they're not active is too complex. I'd prefer to have just a simple discrete switch (so just magically change, or strap to back or transform or whatever), but so only the active character does stuff, from both a gameplay and coding point of view.

as for names, they should be called something that's easy to remember, quick to type and say: like Neil, Astro, whatever, not a massive number I'll never remember. Neil is a nice reference.

commander: if you trace vectors like that (intentionally-sloppily-ish), it works better to use a less exact stroke - like the paintbrush in flash, or one of the art-style brushes in AI. If you use exact solid lines like you have, you kind of need exact geometric shapes. I don't like gradient fills but that's just personal taste: it reminds me of crappy flash games' graphics. (although i'm not an artist on this project, I have some experience with vector graphics)

Also, some structure stuff from a coding point of view based on what I think we want (I can't actually start yet, we don't have a language and stuff). Feel free to talk about it even if you're not a coder:
* everything should be separated into fixed and dynamic, similar to tiles and objects in N. Both would be an array (or vector or whatever)
- fixed stuff follows a set path or is stationary, and would be used for planets and stars. The game would always record a single fixed object associated with the player, which they can interact with - anything else could not affect you (this is for optimization). Because of this these fixed objects cannot be within one player-width apart
- dynamic stuff responds to forces, and calculations vs the player would occur every frame with every object to at least a basic level
* fixed objects would be at minimum a point and a number - the point is the center of gravity and the number is the mass. Each fixed object could have sub-objects on it split into static geometry and dynamic objects.
- Static geometry can consist of lines and arcs and will never move relative to the planet (so physics data can be cached for optimization)
- dynamic stuff can be created and destroyed, and may move along/around the planet (but never leave it). This would include most land enemies, moving platforms, items, crumbling platforms etc.
* dynamic objects would include asteroids, enemies that can travel between planets, enemies in space. Just like the player, they can only interact with one planet at a time (although I guess for very special circumstances even this could be changed). Pretty much everything about them would be customisable and they can be created or destroyed at any time. If, for example, we wanted to create a boss planet, we could make a dynamic object which has the specifically defined function of attracting you towards it (even though dynamic bodies wouldn't ordinarily have a gravitational field). Although we could make it so, they shouldn't ordinarily interact very much with one another - basically just geometry and the player.
* gravity is calculated only with the gravity-points of each fixed object every frame. No matter where the planet's geometry is, the gravity point is equally attractive (to simplify calculations). Of course, the gravity be weaker further away (with inverse square law)
* player movement would never be direct except via collision resolution - when you get pushed/you press a key the velocity would be changed, which would affect the position of the player indirectly. All three players would functionally be a circle (like N, and the rendering and animation of the character should be smart enough to make it look like it's standing on the surface (again, like N).
* absolutely everything in the world should be made out of arcs and lines and collisions between anything should be sweep-based (I'm unsure about this, we could use projection and multisampling and it would be almost as efficient and much easier. Depends on the minimum size and max speed of stuff)
* there should be raycasting and ray-intersection functions

http://nmaps.net/user/darn_hippie · Postby **Commander** » 2008.10.30 (13:38)

Could we name the ship the Viking after the late LittleViking, the creator of the project.

EDIT:

commander: if you trace vectors like that (intentionally-sloppily-ish), it works better to use a less exact stroke - like the paintbrush in flash, or one of the art-style brushes in AI. If you use exact solid lines like you have, you kind of need exact geometric shapes. I don't like gradient fills but that's just personal taste: it reminds me of crappy flash games' graphics. (although i'm not an artist on this project, I have some experience with vector graphics)

In my opinion, the flash paintbrush has been beat into the ground untill its so far under, that even a crew of people with jackhammers working for 3 days couldn't find them. I think paths look nice, and are relatively easy. Maybe instead of drawing the whole thing at once, draw each individual shape, and save all of those. So as to make it easier to animate. Just rotate the legs on pivots attached to the body.

Anyways, what is the universal vector format? I've been using SVG, but that may be only inkscape. (Which, by the way, to any of the artists, if you dont have a vector editor, inkscape is a free alternative to the more expensive. Granted, its no Illustrator, but it does what its meant to. I can show anyone how to use it if they like.)

http://nmaps.net/user/maestro · Postby **乳头的早餐谷物** » 2008.10.30 (13:47)

Commander wrote:Could we name the ship the Viking after the late LittleViking, the creator of the project.

EDIT:
commander: if you trace vectors like that (intentionally-sloppily-ish), it works better to use a less exact stroke - like the paintbrush in flash, or one of the art-style brushes in AI. If you use exact solid lines like you have, you kind of need exact geometric shapes. I don't like gradient fills but that's just personal taste: it reminds me of crappy flash games' graphics. (although i'm not an artist on this project, I have some experience with vector graphics)
In my opinion, the flash paintbrush has been beat into the ground untill its so far under, that only a crew of people with jackhammers working for 3 days couldn't find them. I think paths look nice, and are relatively easy. Maybe instead of drawing the whole thing at once, draw each individual shape, and save all of those. So as to make it easier to animate. Just rotate the legs on pivots attached to the body.

Anyways, what is the universal vector format? I've been using SVG, but that may be only inkscape. (Which, by the way, to any of the artists, if you dont have a vector editor, inkscape is a free alternative to the more expensive. Granted, its no Illustrator, but it does what its meant to. I can show anyone how to use it if they like.)

Oh my god. How can you just carry on like nothing has happened? Who gives a damn about vectors or any of this shit? Maybe you don't care enough to cry or to mourn but you can't just ignore it and pretend it never happened. We all have to deal with this and be there for each other.

Postby **squibbles** » 2008.10.30 (20:27)

Commander wrote: Anyways, what is the universal vector format? I've been using SVG, but that may be only inkscape. (Which, by the way, to any of the artists, if you dont have a vector editor, inkscape is a free alternative to the more expensive. Granted, its no Illustrator, but it does what its meant to. I can show anyone how to use it if they like.)

I'm fairly sure .svg is the generic one...I'd just keep using that.

http://nmaps.net/user/RedSham · Postby **RedSham** » 2008.10.30 (21:58)

Is it too late to join in? If not, I could contribute to the art

http://nmaps.net/user/ · Postby **Zora_S_Kenneth** » 2008.10.30 (23:14)

The LATE LittleViking? No... f***ing... way...

Postby **Animator** » 2008.10.31 (01:41)

These are some Final boss concepts I thunk up. Also, I believe that we should use guns, but with mouse accuracy. It's the most flexible weapon and can work with angles.

Postby **mattk210** » 2008.10.31 (05:55)

my stance on guns/weapons: I'd like the focus not to be on combat, and at least one of the characters not to have offense at all. One character having a gun would be ok but it'd be more interesting to be a slow moving rocket or grenade so it could be used for physics puzzles rather than a fast line that just kills stuff.

final boss: waaay too early for that. Also, for bosses we should decide on the gameplay of the boss before the picture -- if we want it to have a shooting attack we give it a cannon but not the other way around.

http://nmaps.net/user/geti · Postby **Geti** » 2008.10.31 (07:19)

i like weapons. get on IRC. i agree that weapons can be used in puzzles, but lobbing ideas back and forth on a forum doesnt work
i think we need meeting times for #metagame..

http://nmaps.net/user/Ignate · Postby **Ignate** » 2008.10.31 (08:11)

Animator wrote:These are some Final boss concepts I thunk up. Also, I believe that we should use guns, but with mouse accuracy. It's the most flexible weapon and can work with angles.

[image]

Animator has rocked the house, ladies and gentlemen.

The characters would probably have to be pretty well-balanced. Like one can't fire, one has the lowest jump, etc. And yes, when I started drawing I knew the alien didn't quite fit, but I just put it in as a vague idea. So probably just replace that with another robot, another astronaut, or a dog named Laika, but whatever.

And yeah, we probably do need meeting times for #metagame. I usually find it empty. Usually.
Note: I wonder if also sprach zarathustra is copyrighted. Heh.

http://nmaps.net/user/Naczz · Postby **NicNac14** » 2008.10.31 (20:16)

uhhhmmm.... is the game decided? cause if it's the planet thingy game i made a rough pixel drawing on fotoshop..
of a level(solar system)
hope its up to standards

oh and its a big image so yu'd usually play from closer...
i can do better... this is very rough,...

and i made a rocket launcher enemy thingy...

hope u like it... cause if you guys do i'll gladly help with the background/planet artwork
i don't know how to convert it to vector but i'll try.. some tips would help... just pm me with info...

http://nmaps.net/user/geti · Postby **Geti** » 2008.11.01 (03:05)

please type in full words and sentences. its damn hard to read when u type liek ths alrite?.... yeh.....
><

anyway, concept of how i can see this looking with block colour.
run man, go!
had to redraw it quickly, it was lost when my comp crashed.. again. so here it is.
block colour rules, thats a 15kb image of 800x600. woot. maybe ill do more.

Postby **mattk210** » 2008.11.01 (03:07)

would you really want curvy shapes like that? That would be a pain.

EDIT: Actually, I guess that could be made of arcs.

http://nmaps.net/user/geti · Postby **Geti** » 2008.11.01 (03:24)

mmhm. if the planets are .svg anyway why would it matter?

Postby **mattk210** » 2008.11.01 (04:31)

Are you trying to tell me you want the collision to be based on the actual shape of the image of the planet? that's very difficult, because you need to solve for quadratic curves, not to mention disassembling those files to extract shape data. There's no way I'm delving into that, and I doubt any other coder would either. It's gotta be made up of collision objects which can be simply solved - arcs and straight lines.

also, i had a crazy idea. what if the the run mode had giant projected hands, psychonauts-style? if he has melee combat you'd actually be able to see what he's doing, and the hands could be used for flips and jumps off surfaces and stuff. Rough concept attached.

http://nmaps.net/user/geti · Postby **Geti** » 2008.11.01 (07:17)

that would be where a "material" .svg would come in, with a maximum of 3 shapes, collision, core, water.
then there would be a foreground and background image that is used for rendering, while the materials are used for collision calculations.
also not too hot on the hands, youd still be able to see an energy blade anyway..

http://nmaps.net/user/Naczz · Postby **NicNac14** » 2008.11.01 (08:23)

please type in full words and sentences. its damn hard to read when u type liek ths alrite?.... yeh.....
><

anyway, concept of how i can see this looking with block colour.
run man, go!
had to redraw it quickly, it was lost when my comp crashed.. again. so here it is.
block colour rules, thats a 15kb image of 800x600. woot. maybe ill do more.

Attachments:
File comment: block colour concept, showing run man on a small planetoid with tunnels and some small enemies outside the asteroid belt. a spring-ergy pad is also visible.

I see what you mean, both with the typing and the block color...
no outlines? right?
but how do you make planets that aren't round?
sorry to ask again, but I just wanna be sure, no outlines?
cool..
I will try that if thats what you mean...

Postby **mattk210** » 2008.11.01 (08:28)

ok, the hands were just a crazy idea. But the svg stuff, I don't think it's within the scope of this project. You could design a whole game around automatically generated geometry from images (like worms or something, but with vectors and good physics it's a lot harder).

http://nmaps.net/user/Naczz · Postby **NicNac14** » 2008.11.01 (09:43)

block color?
you mean like this:

http://nmaps.net/user/Ignate · Postby **Ignate** » 2008.11.01 (11:04)

Get, I'm liking the art on that pic. I like how the core spills out of the plaanet and the laser-sights on those enemies. And I also like NicNac14's rocket launcher enemy. It looks like it's part of the landscape, so it's a neat idea.

Because some said they didn't like the alien, I just made some more character art, this time testing with another astronaut. I also tried reinventing Geti's robot concept, but Condog's is also good.

Postby **mattk210** » 2008.11.01 (11:16)

you can't have 2 astronauts and one robot! One or the other! You're very good at drawing those cartoon-style astronauts, but I think Geti and Condog are better at the robots - yours is a bit too puffy and not mechanical enough. I guess you could have astronauts in the hub or whatever (as just plot characters) and robots to actually play with. What do you think of that?

http://nmaps.net/user/condog_111 · Postby **Condog** » 2008.11.01 (11:25)

mattk210 wrote:you can't have 2 astronauts and one robot! One or the other! You're very good at drawing those cartoon-style astronauts, but I think Geti and Condog are better at the robots - yours is a bit too puffy and not mechanical enough. I guess you could have astronauts in the hub or whatever (as just plot characters) and robots to actually play with. What do you think of that?

Agreed. It's either robots, or astronauts. Not both.

Also, I think we're getting carried away with the level design. At the moment it would probably be easier to stick with circles.

http://nmaps.net/user/geti · Postby **Geti** » 2008.11.01 (12:39)

QQ i like the tunnels., i suppose if its not doable then i wont really object, but thats kinda what ive been seeing from the beginning.. planets that arent just circles, though some can be (with some variation in the surface)..
i just dont want boring circles, theres so much more that can be done with a planet/planetoid/whatever.

hmn. what if we have 2 "teams", one of astronauts, one of robots? they could each have a different play style, but be able to perform simmilar functions. it could be a race!
or is that a silly idea? i think it kinda is. be cool though, but more of a wimsical thing than anything..

glad im "better" at the robots, im liking how theyre turning out too, glad someone else is.

Metanet Forums

Project: Metagame - Join and contribute!

Who is online