Arizona signs the immigration bill (targeting Latinos)

[ADMINISTRATOR]

Police in Arizona are now allowed to stop anyone they suspect of being illegal, even if they have not committed any other offense. I don't support illegal immigration, but I am against this fascist law that violates the constitution (especially the 4th amendment) and racism.

Also, those who ignore history, are ignoring it at great peril. After Hitler's takeover, one famous anti-Nazi German famously said,

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me, but there was no one left to speak for me."

--Pastor Martin Niemöller

[squibbles]

I think it's quite audacious to compare this to the holocaust. :|

It really isn't that big of a deal, I think. Being detained is not too an extensive process, and can be resolved in mere hours by having someone send for proof of permanant residency, such as a passport.

That, and it clearly doesn't violate the constitution, otehrwise it would not have been passed. Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it anti-constitutional.

[sidke]

this encroachment has already been effected

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act

[Tanner]

Just as long as they don't target Latinas, I'm okay.

[ADMINISTRATOR]

Squibbles, it does violate the 4th amendment. Think about it. The police can now stop anyone (without cause) and search their person. That's completely unconstitutional. The boys in blue shouldn't be allowed to search you or anyone just because. Anywhere else they have to have probable cause. Well, now in Arizona probable cause is being brown.

The reason I made reference to the holocaust is because now Texas is pushing for the same legislation. Soon, it will spread and turn into a law that anyone (even real Americans) can be stopped and questioned for no reason.

Don't get me wrong. Something needs to be done, but I think that something should be to censor those employers who are hiring the illegals to start with. This would get the problem by the root.

[Scrivener]

I'm guessing you're against racial profiling in airports as well?

[Skyling]

Yeah, this is pretty treacherous. I'm surprised it's been passed at all, I wonder if anyone brought up the defiance of the Consitution thing in the voting process.

[T3chno]

Think about it. The police can now stop anyone (without cause) and search their person.

Uh, this part is wrong. They have to have been stopped for violating a certain other crime or traffic law. They can't just choose a random Latino off the street and ask for ID.

[otters~1]

I've been out to west Texas, through the border patrol stations, and it's already entirely legal for the cops to stop any car they want to (in fact, they stop everybody). I bet they can also find an excuse to search your car if they think they need to. I'm /really/ surprised this wasn't law already; I take it for granted.

Would you honestly rather have Mexicans running around? You may not live in an area influenced by illegals, but I do, and the more they crack down, the better.

[Spawn of Yanni]

Think about it. The police can now stop anyone (without cause) and search their person.

Uh, this part is wrong. They have to have been stopped for violating a certain other crime or traffic law. They can't just choose a random Latino off the street and ask for ID.

I'm not the most informed on the issue, but I think "reasonable suspicion" were the key words. Which, if true, is a bit ridiculous.

[T3chno]

Think about it. The police can now stop anyone (without cause) and search their person.

Uh, this part is wrong. They have to have been stopped for violating a certain other crime or traffic law. They can't just choose a random Latino off the street and ask for ID.

I'm not the most informed on the issue, but I think "reasonable suspicion" were the key words. Which, if true, is a bit ridiculous.

Yeah, I never really said it was fine to racial profile. Hell, I'm brown skinned (not Latino), and my parents were both immigrants who earned their citizenship but I don't want illegals running on the streets here, but I'd hate to be stopped by the police under the suspicion of being an illegal.

Also, border security needs to be stepped up. Have you seen all the options they got for coming here?

[squibbles]

Squibbles, it does violate the 4th amendment. Think about it. The police can now stop anyone (without cause) and search their person. That's completely unconstitutional. The boys in blue shouldn't be allowed to search you or anyone just because. Anywhere else they have to have probable cause. Well, now in Arizona probable cause is being brown.

The reason I made reference to the holocaust is because now Texas is pushing for the same legislation. Soon, it will spread and turn into a law that anyone (even real Americans) can be stopped and questioned for no reason.

Don't get me wrong. Something needs to be done, but I think that something should be to censor those employers who are hiring the illegals to start with. This would get the problem by the root.

I'll agree, this is rather counter-intuitive to the whole liberty and freedom thing, but I think that "probable cause" would result in it generally being not too much an issue. Yes, there will be individuals who abuse it, but on a whole it will make the police far more efficiant, while not having a too major setback for those who are innocent of any crime.

And, yeah, alright. I just kind of assumed that the state government weren't so stupid that they couldn't recognise a law opposed to constitutional law. Apparently I'm wrong. :|

[ADMINISTRATOR]

I'm guessing you're against racial profiling in airports as well?

Yes. Everything needs to be thoroughly screened at airport security checkpoints. Regardless, of race, gender, species, object, etc. You never know when some nutcase might want to sneak in an explosive Gatorade bottle.

[Tanner]

Seriously though, while I think the whole thing is a little overzealous, when I saw the headline "Illegal immigrants plan to leave over Ariz. law" my first thought was "Oh ho ho, The Onion. Is nothing sacred?"

My second thought was, "What the fuck? Yahoo News?"

[Rose]

Seriously though, while I think the whole thing is a little overzealous, when I saw the headline "Illegal immigrants plan to leave over Ariz. law" my first thought was "Oh ho ho, The Onion. Is nothing sacred?"

My second thought was, "What the fuck? Yahoo News?"

Hahaha. My Yahoo page has an app for The Onion, and I thought the same thing.

[rocket_thumped]

Just as long as they don't target Latinas, I'm okay.

Ahaha

But yeah, this is pretty outrageous.

[Aldaric]

You're naive if you don't think this law is a bad thing. 95% of cops are assholes who will invent reasons to pull over brown people.

That reminds me that, 99% of all statistics are made up.
Really were are you getting that number? Obviously those type of asshole cops are sometimes in the news, but that is because it is something people will pay to read. Just because you hear about more child rapists than people that pick up litter does not mean that there are more child rapists. I mean there could be, but you can't know that. You and I both do not know the percentage of asshole cops, and I am not going to believe that 95% until you show me facts. If you were joking then sorry hahaha very funny.

[noops]

Aldaric, I'm fairly certain that Demonz was using hyperbole to argue his point that more often than not, cops are power-hungry assholes, and they use their power, not for the law, but for personal gain. Consequently, I think he's right, but what do I know, I'm 15.


OT: I think that it is somewhat outrageous. In a perfect world police officers wouldn't abuse it, and you'd be able to be a law-abiding citizen without fear of being pulled over. I get confused with being Indian all the time, and, if I were to go to Arizona, I wouldn't be surprised if I was pulled over and detained for an unreasonable amount of time.


I think it should be noted that, if I remember correctly, the Secret Service, CIA, and, I think, the FBI can detain you against your will without rhyme or reason.

[otters~1]

95% of cops are assholes who will invent reasons to pull over brown people.

95% of illegal Mexicans have murder in their hearts when they swim the river.

[Aldaric]

Aldaric, I'm fairly certain that Demonz was using hyperbole to argue his point that more often than not, cops are power-hungry assholes, and they use their power, not for the law, but for personal gain. Consequently, I think he's right, but what do I know, I'm 15.

I know he was not seriously saying 95%, but it implied most like you said. I think that saying most cops are stereotypical power-hungry assholes is just a dumb thing to say. When you or I have no idea about the proportion of assholes to non-assholes in the police force. You can't say that more often than not they are assholes because you have no proof. Give me statistics and I will believe you.

95% of illegal Mexicans have murder in their hearts when they swim the river.

Amen.

[ADMINISTRATOR]

Aldaric, I'm fairly certain that Demonz was using hyperbole to argue his point that more often than not, cops are power-hungry assholes, and they use their power, not for the law, but for personal gain. Consequently, I think he's right, but what do I know, I'm 15.

I know he was not seriously saying 95%, but it implied most like you said. I think that saying most cops are stereotypical power-hungry assholes is just a dumb thing to say. When you or I have no idea about the proportion of assholes to non-assholes in the police force. You can't say that more often than not they are assholes because you have no proof. Give me statistics and I will believe you.

95% of illegal Mexicans have murder in their hearts when they swim the river.

Amen.

NO, NO Aldaric! Cops are assholes. They are trained that way. I know these boys in blue well enough to know that they are not trained to go out there to be anyone’s pal. That’s why Demonz “estimated” statistic at least made some sense and was a good guesstimate.

Also, why do you dismiss one statistic, and then "Amen" the other racial slur?? Is it because, the second statistic humored you more and because you’re a hypocrite? You must also think this new law is ok, but have you even taken the time to see how it violates the constitution cause if you have you will find that we signed the constitution so “The People” were protected against unfair government legislation, like this one.

Think about it, how would you like to be the brown legal person who is simply on his way to work or a wedding or a hospital, and gets pulled over for it?

[Tanner]

You guys have weird experiences with police officers. Mine have only ever been fairly pleasant. I've been pulled over twice for minor traffic violations and both times been let off with a warning. I don't get this whole "Cops are total douchetwats" idea.

[Aldaric]

You guys have weird experiences with police officers. Mine have only ever been fairly pleasant. I've been pulled over twice for minor traffic violations and both times been let off with a warning. I don't get this whole "Cops are total douchetwats" idea.

Exactly! I think it is movies or news, but something is giving the people a wrong idea about cops.

Also, why do you dismiss one statistic, and then "Amen" the other racial slur??

It was a joke. I do not support this bill in anyway. I think it is wrong. I was just pointing out that saying that most cops our assholes is stupid.

[otters~1]

You guys have weird experiences with police officers. Mine have only ever been fairly pleasant. I've been pulled over twice for minor traffic violations and both times been let off with a warning. I don't get this whole "Cops are total douchetwats" idea.

Yeah, that was the point of my post as well. I hope that was sarcasm, Demonz.

[unoriginal name]

While we are talking about cops, I think cops are mostly just kind of square.