moot talks at TED
- Global Mod
- Posts: 792
- Joined: 2008.09.28 (18:32)
- NUMA Profile: http://www.nmaps.net/user/Yahoozy
- MBTI Type: INFP
- Contact:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_1UEAGCo30
As much as I hate meme culture and memetics in general, it's neat to find retribution here in this sort of inadvertent "progenitor" being the very rational and observant individual that he is. Could I find merit here if a more shallow person had created 4Chan? I couldn't say, but it's apparent to me now that the concept of this completely anonymous community is intriguing as it is (and don't shoot me here) kind of brilliant. It doesn't solve worldly problems, nor do I think it necessarily fosters a crippling subculture. It's an invention and study in society and collective thinking.
As much as I hate meme culture and memetics in general, it's neat to find retribution here in this sort of inadvertent "progenitor" being the very rational and observant individual that he is. Could I find merit here if a more shallow person had created 4Chan? I couldn't say, but it's apparent to me now that the concept of this completely anonymous community is intriguing as it is (and don't shoot me here) kind of brilliant. It doesn't solve worldly problems, nor do I think it necessarily fosters a crippling subculture. It's an invention and study in society and collective thinking.
- Queen of All Spiders
- Posts: 4263
- Joined: 2008.09.29 (03:54)
- NUMA Profile: http://www.freeWoWgold.edu
- MBTI Type: ENFP
- Location: Quebec, Canada!
He'd have to be smart, his pockets literally have holes in them. Even though 4chan is covered in ads for CumshotSurprise.com, he still is in massive debt and loses money every year.
Loathes
- Retrofuturist
- Posts: 3131
- Joined: 2008.09.19 (06:55)
- MBTI Type: ENTP
- Location: California, USA
- Contact:
Holy shit.
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]


- RoboBarber
- Posts: 367
- Joined: 2008.09.30 (21:43)
- NUMA Profile: Legions of http://nmaps.net/user/Onesevennine
- MBTI Type: INFP
- Location: Texas'); DROP TABLE Members;--
"These kids have this group on the internet and they like to say funny words like 'Barrel Roll.'"
...Yeah, pretty much.
...Yeah, pretty much.
:loud music:

"Whosoever dies with his art on the most hard drives, wins." - Michael W. Dean'

"Whosoever dies with his art on the most hard drives, wins." - Michael W. Dean'
-
- Unsavory Conquistador of the Western Front
- Posts: 1541
- Joined: 2008.09.19 (12:19)
- NUMA Profile: http://www.nmaps.net/user/Kablizzy
- MBTI Type: ISTJ
- Location: Huntington, WV
- Contact:
I was taking a shit the other day.
(Someone remind me to make an actual post here).
(Someone remind me to make an actual post here).

vankusss wrote:What 'more time' means?
I'm going to buy some ham.
- Admin
- Posts: 2332
- Joined: 2008.09.27 (16:53)
- NUMA Profile: http://www.nmaps.net/user/Aidiera :3
- Steam: www.steamcommunity.com/id/
- MBTI Type: INTJ
- Location: Phoenix, Arizona
This is plenty sufficient for me.Smörgåsbord wrote:I was taking a shit the other day.
(Someone remind me to make an actual post here).

//--^.^--\\
\\.:.^.:.//
- Global Mod
- Posts: 1416
- Joined: 2008.09.26 (05:35)
- NUMA Profile: http://nmaps.net/user/scythe33
- MBTI Type: ENTP
- Location: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
As soon as we wish to be happier, we are no longer happy.
- Waitin' for a Moderator Spot
- Posts: 54
- Joined: 2009.05.03 (20:42)
- NUMA Profile: http://nmaps.net/user/
- MBTI Type: ENTP
Yes, 4chan tends to be rather stupid, but at least moot seems to be pretty intelligent. I'm disappointed that his talk revolved almost entirely around 4chan. Sure, maybe that's what he's good at (it is his only claim to fame), but I'd be curious to hear more of his thoughts on Facebook's recent privacy issues and social networking in general.

-
- Unsavory Conquistador of the Western Front
- Posts: 1541
- Joined: 2008.09.19 (12:19)
- NUMA Profile: http://www.nmaps.net/user/Kablizzy
- MBTI Type: ISTJ
- Location: Huntington, WV
- Contact:
He's busy trying to convince everyone that 4chan isn't the bathroom stall of the internet, and that five years ago, he had a purpose and a crusade for anonymity instead of a weed-inspired "u no wut wuld be funni???" moment.Zilla wrote:Yes, 4chan tends to be rather stupid, but at least moot seems to be pretty intelligent. I'm disappointed that his talk revolved almost entirely around 4chan. Sure, maybe that's what he's good at (it is his only claim to fame), but I'd be curious to hear more of his thoughts on Facebook's recent privacy issues and social networking in general.

vankusss wrote:What 'more time' means?
I'm going to buy some ham.
- Queen of All Spiders
- Posts: 4263
- Joined: 2008.09.29 (03:54)
- NUMA Profile: http://www.freeWoWgold.edu
- MBTI Type: ENFP
- Location: Quebec, Canada!
I don`t believe that anybody who loses as much money as he does does not absolutely believe in 4chan. :/Kablizzy wrote:He's busy trying to convince everyone that 4chan isn't the bathroom stall of the internet, and that five years ago, he had a purpose and a crusade for anonymity instead of a weed-inspired "u no wut wuld be funni???" moment.Zilla wrote:Yes, 4chan tends to be rather stupid, but at least moot seems to be pretty intelligent. I'm disappointed that his talk revolved almost entirely around 4chan. Sure, maybe that's what he's good at (it is his only claim to fame), but I'd be curious to hear more of his thoughts on Facebook's recent privacy issues and social networking in general.
Loathes
-
- Unsavory Conquistador of the Western Front
- Posts: 1541
- Joined: 2008.09.19 (12:19)
- NUMA Profile: http://www.nmaps.net/user/Kablizzy
- MBTI Type: ISTJ
- Location: Huntington, WV
- Contact:
Sure, he does /now/. It's a *crusade* now. It's much the same with my crusade against his site. It didn't start that way, but after I figured it out, I saw benefit in the crusade. If I ran one of the top 500 websites in the world, I'd blow it out of proportion too. Shit, remember what I did with Legacy? That thing started as a completely different thing than it ended as. Hell, it started as *Not my project* at all. Go figure that one. Moot and I are a lot alike in that regard, I'd imagine. He made a silly imageboard - Not to protect internet free speech and the good of the common man - but more than likely because he wanted an English imageboard. Hell, Why_Me and his retard friends are doing the same thing. He made something irreverent and ran aground of what he sees to be a cause worth supporting and gaining infamy for. He found his leprechaun at the end of the rainbow. I don't blame him for it - I'd do it were I in his position. I just know what it is he's doing.

vankusss wrote:What 'more time' means?
I'm going to buy some ham.
- Depressing
- Posts: 1977
- Joined: 2008.09.26 (06:46)
- NUMA Profile: http://nmaps.net/user/rennaT
- MBTI Type: ISTJ
- Location: Trenton, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
You speak as though we're giving moot too much credit, Kablizzy, because you think we've all fallen for this charade where we see /b/ as a shining beacon for this certain aspect (anonymity) of our world which is, and anyone who's visited /b/ will know this, absurd. The reality is that you're the one giving moot too much credit. You're exactly right when you say that he "made a silly image board" but I honestly doubt he's had much to do with shaping this thing beyond the basic webhosting. So in keeping with your boat metaphor, it isn't so much that he "ran aground" but that he was caught up in the swell. I really don't see how you and moot are similar at all... not that that's a bad thing in any way, shape or form.

'rret donc d'niaser 'vec mon sirop d'erable, calis, si j't'r'vois icitte j'pellerais la police, tu l'veras l'criss de poutine de cul t'auras en prison, tabarnak
- Global Mod
- Posts: 1416
- Joined: 2008.09.26 (05:35)
- NUMA Profile: http://nmaps.net/user/scythe33
- MBTI Type: ENTP
- Location: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
As the legend goes, moot bought the domain name so he could have a cool email address. He added boards at the request of posters on SomethingAwful's popular Anime Death Tentacle Rape Whorehouse subforum.Kablizzy wrote:Sure, he does /now/. It's a *crusade* now. It's much the same with my crusade against his site. It didn't start that way, but after I figured it out, I saw benefit in the crusade. If I ran one of the top 500 websites in the world, I'd blow it out of proportion too. Shit, remember what I did with Legacy? That thing started as a completely different thing than it ended as. Hell, it started as *Not my project* at all. Go figure that one. Moot and I are a lot alike in that regard, I'd imagine. He made a silly imageboard - Not to protect internet free speech and the good of the common man - but more than likely because he wanted an English imageboard. Hell, Why_Me and his retard friends are doing the same thing. He made something irreverent and ran aground of what he sees to be a cause worth supporting and gaining infamy for. He found his leprechaun at the end of the rainbow. I don't blame him for it - I'd do it were I in his position. I just know what it is he's doing.
As soon as we wish to be happier, we are no longer happy.
-
- Unsavory Conquistador of the Western Front
- Posts: 1541
- Joined: 2008.09.19 (12:19)
- NUMA Profile: http://www.nmaps.net/user/Kablizzy
- MBTI Type: ISTJ
- Location: Huntington, WV
- Contact:
I dunno, maybe I do give him more credit than he's due. I think the thing that bugs me is that the things that you and I see isn't what everyone sees. You'd think anyone would think the anonymity crusade absurd, but people actually believe it. Baffles me too. I guess I mistake apathy towards him and his imageboard for support in a lot of cases. I give the site and the topic a wide berth in a lot of situations because I fear it. I fear that shit being as popular as it is, and people enacting the human condition in the worst ways possible. I dunno how any of you feel when you're sitting in a bathroom stall and gaze upon the whole...hairscapades wrote:You speak as though we're giving moot too much credit, Kablizzy, because you think we've all fallen for this charade where we see /b/ as a shining beacon for this certain aspect (anonymity) of our world which is, and anyone who's visited /b/ will know this, absurd. The reality is that you're the one giving moot too much credit. You're exactly right when you say that he "made a silly image board" but I honestly doubt he's had much to do with shaping this thing beyond the basic webhosting. So in keeping with your boat metaphor, it isn't so much that he "ran aground" but that he was caught up in the swell. I really don't see how you and moot are similar at all... not that that's a bad thing in any way, shape or form.
"Niggers Pick Cotton"
"I fucked a stripper"
"Ur Dumb"
"Ur Mom is Dumb"
"For a Good time Call Jenny 867-5309"
... stuff scrawled across the walls, but it kinda gets to me more and more as time goes on. It's one of those things that I don't understand, and I don't think I ever will. I guess I feel the same way for most things that humans do, like... In general. I guess he and I are only similar in a single fashion - We've attached ourselves to opposite sides of the same coin, ideologically. I think the internet should be tied down and gagged, he thinks it should be as free as a Flower Child's underpants.

vankusss wrote:What 'more time' means?
I'm going to buy some ham.
- Depressing
- Posts: 1977
- Joined: 2008.09.26 (06:46)
- NUMA Profile: http://nmaps.net/user/rennaT
- MBTI Type: ISTJ
- Location: Trenton, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
I don't think you've got that exactly right, either. They didn't get much into in the TED talk but moot did say that "saying whatever you like, I think, is powerful. Doing whatever you like is now crossing a line." Wishy-washy to be sure he certainly believes in some boundaries.
Insofar as my personal opinions on all this, I think I straddle the fence between Kablizzy and moot. This internet thing seems to have enough room on it for both the anonymous sounding boards and the accountable social networking. They both serve their own separate functions for their own perhaps not-so-separate clientèle. What I think is important to remember is that whatever horrifying shit is out there, it's out there cause of us. If you remove the ease and popularity of 4chan, it's going to ooze out somewhere else. If you repress if further, it's going to gush.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's a problem with the internet. I don't think it's a problem with anonymity or lack thereof. I don't think it's a problem with 4chan. I think it's a problem with me and you and, you know, the rest of those clowns. But mostly Suki. That guy's a douche.
Insofar as my personal opinions on all this, I think I straddle the fence between Kablizzy and moot. This internet thing seems to have enough room on it for both the anonymous sounding boards and the accountable social networking. They both serve their own separate functions for their own perhaps not-so-separate clientèle. What I think is important to remember is that whatever horrifying shit is out there, it's out there cause of us. If you remove the ease and popularity of 4chan, it's going to ooze out somewhere else. If you repress if further, it's going to gush.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's a problem with the internet. I don't think it's a problem with anonymity or lack thereof. I don't think it's a problem with 4chan. I think it's a problem with me and you and, you know, the rest of those clowns. But mostly Suki. That guy's a douche.

'rret donc d'niaser 'vec mon sirop d'erable, calis, si j't'r'vois icitte j'pellerais la police, tu l'veras l'criss de poutine de cul t'auras en prison, tabarnak
-
- Unsavory Conquistador of the Western Front
- Posts: 1541
- Joined: 2008.09.19 (12:19)
- NUMA Profile: http://www.nmaps.net/user/Kablizzy
- MBTI Type: ISTJ
- Location: Huntington, WV
- Contact:
Oh, no. I know. Humans are fucked up. I'm just trying to find out how to make them stop short of murdering them all. I just have a hard time embracing the beast within and calling myself a part of the faeces-flinging masses. I'm certain he has boundaries, but I'm not so sure the Fifteen Million posters that frequent the site share those boundaries. In fact, in a community defined by a lack of boundaries, where does it stop? Obviously, a rational person (Or a person interested in good PR) will say that doing whatever you like is the boundary. But what about the irrational people? I dunno if they can discern between the gore threads and creating gore themselves to post. The child porn images versus making their own "Original Content" to post as some epic win. I dunno. In my mind, even one instance of any of that due to support of the site is far too far. Sure, it happens anyway, but that's no reason to encourage it and cause it to happen *more* often.
The concept of anonymity as it pertains to /b/ specifically seems to - of late - go hand-in-hand with anarchy and revolution and seeing how much of an impact they can actually make. It has already crossed the line from saying to doing. How far will it go? Honestly, I don't know. I don't think they're organized enough to do anything, really. Even if they were, most of them would chicken out at the last moment. But strangely, I caught a thief earlier today who was trying a technique gleaned from a former employee who was sharing the secrets of the store on /b/ last night. Long story, but suffice to say that it was an incredibly surreal moment to see (at least some of) my fears manifesting that close to home. It didn't surprise me, but it certainly caught me off-guard in the same way that Tosh.0 caught me off-guard, and in the same way that someone vocalizing the word "Epic Win" caught me off-guard, and the same way Tay Zonday's popularity caught me off-guard.
I think my views on anonymity are so skewed and so specifically targeted to Anon as an entity, that I couldn't even tell you where I stand on free speech anymore. Most people see it as a universally good thing, but as strange as it sounds (Myself being as extremely opinionated as I am) I dunno if I can anymore. Which is a weird place to find myself. I look back at me before Metanet, and to where I am post-Metanet, and somewhere in-between, I became a nightmarish, over-authoritarian Dictator-figure. Whether that was mostly persona and posturing or not, I don't even know at this point.
I don't even think it's a problem with the Internet. The Internet is just a really easy stereotype and scapegoat for me to use. I've always had problems with humanity on an inherent level, but now it's more in-my-face, and I'm not sure whether my selectivism is kicked into high gear now, or if people are getting stupider, more brazen, violent, and depraved, but ever since I can remember, I've never liked people. I've wanted for the longest time to find someone to spend my life with, and go live a quiet life away from... Well, everyone. Which goes directly against my penchant for speech and debate and my love for Radio and Journalism, but I dunno. Maybe Canadians aren't as fucked up. I hear Toronto and Vancouver are incredible places to live. I even had thoughts of living on Ascension Island (Look it up, it's in the Goddamn middle of the Atlantic. Like, in the fucking *middle*). I'm babbling now. Just thoughts, I suppose.
The concept of anonymity as it pertains to /b/ specifically seems to - of late - go hand-in-hand with anarchy and revolution and seeing how much of an impact they can actually make. It has already crossed the line from saying to doing. How far will it go? Honestly, I don't know. I don't think they're organized enough to do anything, really. Even if they were, most of them would chicken out at the last moment. But strangely, I caught a thief earlier today who was trying a technique gleaned from a former employee who was sharing the secrets of the store on /b/ last night. Long story, but suffice to say that it was an incredibly surreal moment to see (at least some of) my fears manifesting that close to home. It didn't surprise me, but it certainly caught me off-guard in the same way that Tosh.0 caught me off-guard, and in the same way that someone vocalizing the word "Epic Win" caught me off-guard, and the same way Tay Zonday's popularity caught me off-guard.
I think my views on anonymity are so skewed and so specifically targeted to Anon as an entity, that I couldn't even tell you where I stand on free speech anymore. Most people see it as a universally good thing, but as strange as it sounds (Myself being as extremely opinionated as I am) I dunno if I can anymore. Which is a weird place to find myself. I look back at me before Metanet, and to where I am post-Metanet, and somewhere in-between, I became a nightmarish, over-authoritarian Dictator-figure. Whether that was mostly persona and posturing or not, I don't even know at this point.
I don't even think it's a problem with the Internet. The Internet is just a really easy stereotype and scapegoat for me to use. I've always had problems with humanity on an inherent level, but now it's more in-my-face, and I'm not sure whether my selectivism is kicked into high gear now, or if people are getting stupider, more brazen, violent, and depraved, but ever since I can remember, I've never liked people. I've wanted for the longest time to find someone to spend my life with, and go live a quiet life away from... Well, everyone. Which goes directly against my penchant for speech and debate and my love for Radio and Journalism, but I dunno. Maybe Canadians aren't as fucked up. I hear Toronto and Vancouver are incredible places to live. I even had thoughts of living on Ascension Island (Look it up, it's in the Goddamn middle of the Atlantic. Like, in the fucking *middle*). I'm babbling now. Just thoughts, I suppose.

vankusss wrote:What 'more time' means?
I'm going to buy some ham.
- Retrofuturist
- Posts: 3131
- Joined: 2008.09.19 (06:55)
- MBTI Type: ENTP
- Location: California, USA
- Contact:
Just a quick aside:Kablizzy wrote:I think my views on anonymity are so skewed and so specifically targeted to Anon as an entity, that I couldn't even tell you where I stand on free speech anymore. Most people see it as a universally good thing, but as strange as it sounds (Myself being as extremely opinionated as I am) I dunno if I can anymore.
I finished up a report for a computer security class a few days ago, and the topic I chose was available software for obscuring one's identity (and flaws therein). While I did say explicitly in the preface that I would talk about neither reasons for nor consequences of anonymity, particularly because much of what I ran into was designed with software and media piracy in mind, there was a particular case that made me sit back and develop a fleeting warm and fuzzy feeling about humanity...
Some background first: There's an app called Freenet (which you can read more about on Wikipedia) that's essentially its own private, ethereal sub-internet; you can only access it through a Freenet node, and the content is encrypted and distributed redundantly across all Freenet users. Its primary goal was free speech, and anonymity was the means, although people are free to use pseudonyms on forums on the Freenet network and such. One peculiar feature of it is its ability to run in "darknet" mode, where its connection to the Freenet network is input manually and the connection itself is obfuscated, making it difficult for an observer to even tell that Freenet is being used.
Anyway, apparently, there's a group of dissidents in China who are distributing Freenet on CD's and floppy disks, with clients pre-configured in darknet mode. And from what I understand, the ability to criticize the Chinese government anonymously has allowed them to flourish. And I happen to think that this is fucking awesome, that this is exactly what anonymity is for... not for posting animated .gifs of train accidents or spamming racist epithets in all-caps.
So I still see a purpose in keeping anonymity fresh, and in exploring new ways it can granted and maintained. I've come to see 4chan as something like "anonymity practice" -- it's like a constant case study, or a perpetual practice drill, in preparation for those times when appropriately applied anonymity can accomplish something Good. When the time comes that a network of people need to discuss something important anonymously, people who are experienced with the way anonymity shapes conversations and the best way to organize discussion would be a tremendous benefit. And I'm not referring to /b/tards as potentially useful, but the people who take an academic interest in anonymous cultures like 4chan (and probably don't post there, themselves, because they have better things to do).
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]


- Global Mod
- Posts: 792
- Joined: 2008.09.28 (18:32)
- NUMA Profile: http://www.nmaps.net/user/Yahoozy
- MBTI Type: INFP
- Contact:
Precisely the point I was trying to make here. Allowing 4Chan to become what it is now was as necessary as a conclusion to an experiment.Tsukatu wrote: So I still see a purpose in keeping anonymity fresh, and in exploring new ways it can granted and maintained. I've come to see 4chan as something like "anonymity practice" -- it's like a constant case study, or a perpetual practice drill, in preparation for those times when appropriately applied anonymity can accomplish something Good. When the time comes that a network of people need to discuss something important anonymously, people who are experienced with the way anonymity shapes conversations and the best way to organize discussion would be a tremendous benefit. And I'm not referring to /b/tards as potentially useful, but the people who take an academic interest in anonymous cultures like 4chan (and probably don't post there, themselves, because they have better things to do).
- Depressing
- Posts: 1977
- Joined: 2008.09.26 (06:46)
- NUMA Profile: http://nmaps.net/user/rennaT
- MBTI Type: ISTJ
- Location: Trenton, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Yeah, man. Stuff like that or Wikileaks or whatever are reason enough to keep anonymity alive.Tsukatu wrote:Anyway, apparently, there's a group of dissidents in China who are distributing Freenet on CD's and floppy disks, with clients pre-configured in darknet mode. And from what I understand, the ability to criticize the Chinese government anonymously has allowed them to flourish.
I know that for every bathroom scrawling there isn't a Metasecret-like post but I don't know that that's important. As long as there is a very tangible benefit, I think we should keep viewing anonymity as more of a pro than a con. In my head, I keep coming back grade 10 drama class when we made and performed with masks. I really think that some of the best work of the year came out of that section of the curriculum and I attribute that in large part to the even dubious anonymity that wearing a mask in front of people provides. I didn't even think about the parallels between that and Anon's Guy Fawkes wank until I wrote it but there it is. Take it at, ahem, face value.

'rret donc d'niaser 'vec mon sirop d'erable, calis, si j't'r'vois icitte j'pellerais la police, tu l'veras l'criss de poutine de cul t'auras en prison, tabarnak
- Queen of All Spiders
- Posts: 4263
- Joined: 2008.09.29 (03:54)
- NUMA Profile: http://www.freeWoWgold.edu
- MBTI Type: ENFP
- Location: Quebec, Canada!
This is very interesting. I think that Kablizzy brings up some good points; the shit people do on 4chan in the name of liberty, anonymity and humour are terrible things to have been produced, ever. Is the problem then with merely the complacency of our culture? 4chan is, I would suspect, a largely American phenomenon, seeing as how a lot of the culture presented there seems American as well as many of the real-world projects relate to the US, not to mention choosing English as its principle language. I look at that and combine it with the fact that America is a country with huge life expectancies, where essentially you can live off of the system and live happily. It's a culture that is filled with sarcasm and one where I would say that a very small percentage is concerned about legitimate issues in the world.Tsukatu wrote:Just a quick aside:Kablizzy wrote:I think my views on anonymity are so skewed and so specifically targeted to Anon as an entity, that I couldn't even tell you where I stand on free speech anymore. Most people see it as a universally good thing, but as strange as it sounds (Myself being as extremely opinionated as I am) I dunno if I can anymore.
I finished up a report for a computer security class a few days ago, and the topic I chose was available software for obscuring one's identity (and flaws therein). While I did say explicitly in the preface that I would talk about neither reasons for nor consequences of anonymity, particularly because much of what I ran into was designed with software and media piracy in mind, there was a particular case that made me sit back and develop a fleeting warm and fuzzy feeling about humanity...
Some background first: There's an app called Freenet (which you can read more about on Wikipedia) that's essentially its own private, ethereal sub-internet; you can only access it through a Freenet node, and the content is encrypted and distributed redundantly across all Freenet users. Its primary goal was free speech, and anonymity was the means, although people are free to use pseudonyms on forums on the Freenet network and such. One peculiar feature of it is its ability to run in "darknet" mode, where its connection to the Freenet network is input manually and the connection itself is obfuscated, making it difficult for an observer to even tell that Freenet is being used.
Anyway, apparently, there's a group of dissidents in China who are distributing Freenet on CD's and floppy disks, with clients pre-configured in darknet mode. And from what I understand, the ability to criticize the Chinese government anonymously has allowed them to flourish. And I happen to think that this is fucking awesome, that this is exactly what anonymity is for... not for posting animated .gifs of train accidents or spamming racist epithets in all-caps.
So I still see a purpose in keeping anonymity fresh, and in exploring new ways it can granted and maintained. I've come to see 4chan as something like "anonymity practice" -- it's like a constant case study, or a perpetual practice drill, in preparation for those times when appropriately applied anonymity can accomplish something Good. When the time comes that a network of people need to discuss something important anonymously, people who are experienced with the way anonymity shapes conversations and the best way to organize discussion would be a tremendous benefit. And I'm not referring to /b/tards as potentially useful, but the people who take an academic interest in anonymous cultures like 4chan (and probably don't post there, themselves, because they have better things to do).
Compare that to say, China; where most of the population has some serious shit that they personally have to deal with, like horrible censorship and dictatorship, and they're going to be using their anonymity for something different than "teh lulz". It's the same way I feel about the gun issues we were discussing in the debate forums. You can point to the increased violence in the United States, but it isn't because the US has more guns that they are committing more violence; they want guns for the same reason they are violent; the culture dictates their behaviour. So maybe Kablizzy has more of a problem with that culture and the kinds of things it would do with anonymity than the concept of free speech. Free speech is something great that needs to be taken with a bit of responsibility. I don't know that anonymity necessarily removes that level of responsibility, it just makes it so nobody can -hold you responsible- for your actions. If you're raised right, you'll use this anonymity properly and responibly.
Loathes
-
- Unsavory Conquistador of the Western Front
- Posts: 1541
- Joined: 2008.09.19 (12:19)
- NUMA Profile: http://www.nmaps.net/user/Kablizzy
- MBTI Type: ISTJ
- Location: Huntington, WV
- Contact:
Like Slaps said, I think there's a very fine line between crusading for what's right and using anonymity as an excuse for not having to be held accountable. That said, I think that anonymity, correctly utilized, is absolutely vital to a society's well-being. But are we really talking about anonymity here? Or are we talking about free speech? Because they're really two different concepts. Anonymity carries with it that lack of accountability, whereas free speech does not. And I think that's where my underlying problem comes in. Anonymity is not ever needed unless there's corruption and wrongdoing in another fashion anyway. As such, I see anonymity as nothing but that excuse for lack of accountability. Why crusade for anonymity when you can just crusade for free speech and anti-oppressionism?
So Slaps is right, I don't have a problem with free speech - Sure, I think that some people need to shut the fuck up, and I'd really, really, really like the opportunity to make them, or publicly prove them wrong so they *will* shut up and stop telling lies, but I don't think that has anything to do with anonymity.
So Slaps is right, I don't have a problem with free speech - Sure, I think that some people need to shut the fuck up, and I'd really, really, really like the opportunity to make them, or publicly prove them wrong so they *will* shut up and stop telling lies, but I don't think that has anything to do with anonymity.

vankusss wrote:What 'more time' means?
I'm going to buy some ham.
- Retrofuturist
- Posts: 3131
- Joined: 2008.09.19 (06:55)
- MBTI Type: ENTP
- Location: California, USA
- Contact:
An upheld right to free speech and enforced anti-oppressionism can only take you so far. As soon as you hit a position of any importance in a business or political group, not only do you have to begin choosing your words and battles carefully, but people will also judge the message at least partially on your identity instead of entirely on its content. Anonymity, on the other hand, grants you the fullest freedom of speech instantly. I can't imagine a politician who wouldn't change his tune if he was granted anonymity.Kablizzy wrote:But are we really talking about anonymity here? Or are we talking about free speech? Because they're really two different concepts. Anonymity carries with it that lack of accountability, whereas free speech does not. And I think that's where my underlying problem comes in. Anonymity is not ever needed unless there's corruption and wrongdoing in another fashion anyway. As such, I see anonymity as nothing but that excuse for lack of accountability. Why crusade for anonymity when you can just crusade for free speech and anti-oppressionism?
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]


Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests