The Neditor Nation Discussion Thread

[Pheidippides]

Bump because Week 1 Results are up. :)

[Hoohah2x2sday]

wow, where'd you get that badge/sig?!?!?!

is it only for you, and can it be mdified to say other people's names (like me=P)?

[Pheidippides]

BTW can you refuse a scrimmage, or is it like pokemon when if your challenged you have to fight?

Good question. You can refuse a scrimmage. Also, Hoohah, my brother designed this trainer card for me, but my brother's too busy to make trainer cards for everybody. Sorry. Ad made his own trainer card, too, so I guess you could try your hand at it if you want one. All you need are images for the badges, which you can make fairly easily from N screenshots, some text, and other stuff.

[Hoohah2x2sday]

nah, i suck with images =P

just wondering if u made them, nvm =]

[Hoohah2x2sday]

a question:

what happens if no one judges my map by wed.?

[Pheidippides]

a question:

what happens if no one judges my map by wed.?

Your map will be judged by the end of this week. Submissions close Wednesday, but Judging continues until Saturday or Sunday, after which I'll compile the week's results. Rest assured, your map will be judged during Week 2. :)

[Hoohah2x2sday]

K, thanks =]

i was just....concerned (?)...because my map was skipped over in the challenge thread by the judges, lol

[Erik-Player]

Can we use teleporters in our maps, and/or nan'd stuff such as drones that stand still?

Use of NReality and Manual Nediting are not allowed in Gym or Championship challenges, and are not allowed in Special Event challenges unless the rules of the Special Event state otherwise.

[Riobe]

I have another 2 question. About having someone else playtest your maps:

1) Can it be someone outside the competition?
2) Can it be posted in a thread like this, as long as I say it's for this competition and that judges can't playtest it as well?

[Pheidippides]

I have another 2 question. About having someone else playtest your maps:

1) Can it be someone outside the competition?
2) Can it be posted in a thread like this, as long as I say it's for this competition and that judges can't playtest it as well?

1) Sure.
2) As long as you don't get opinions from a Judge, there shouldn't be a problem. Just make sure Judges know to skip your map.

[isaacx]

2 gyms down 6 more to go

Congratulations, and this is the only thing i hate, sometimes it takes a while to get the results on things.

[bufar]

I'm currently accepting challenges. I need to practice mapping because I'm sick of making floor guard maps.

[Brainwasher]

here is an idea that I am surprised nobody came up with about dethroned champions.

The Elite Four

The elite 4 was origionally composed of 3 trainers and Lance, all of whom had been the champion at one time. Maybe the dethroned champions can form an elite 4 (or other number) that can be challenged separate from the champion, so that if many people have all the badges, more than one of them can do something in a week.
I agree, though, that champions should not be fighting each other for the champ rank after dethronment. The elite 4 idea is good from everyone!

[Pheidippides]

here is an idea that I am surprised nobody came up with about dethroned champions.

The Elite Four

The elite 4 was origionally composed of 3 trainers and Lance, all of whom had been the champion at one time. Maybe the dethroned champions can form an elite 4 (or other number) that can be challenged separate from the champion, so that if many people have all the badges, more than one of them can do something in a week.
I agree, though, that champions should not be fighting each other for the champ rank after dethronment. The elite 4 idea is good from everyone!

We toyed with an Elite Four idea early on in the planning phase, but ditched it so that the contest could be a bit simpler. Dethroned Champions can still scrimmage and participate in Special Events, so I don't see why they need to form an Elite Four. The contest has enough intricacies as is. Much of what made the final version of the rules was streamlined from a much more complex idea of mine. For example, I had an equation set up to determine player score that involved things like scrimmage win percentage, but it was cut for the idea of simple bonuses of nice round numbers. In a contest this huge, simplicity will be key.

[MattKestrel]

Heres my submission for the scrimmage against Erik Player. *sighs*



I'll PM this to Riobe too.

[notsteve]

here is an idea that I am surprised nobody came up with about dethroned champions.

The Elite Four

The elite 4 was origionally composed of 3 trainers and Lance, all of whom had been the champion at one time. Maybe the dethroned champions can form an elite 4 (or other number) that can be challenged separate from the champion, so that if many people have all the badges, more than one of them can do something in a week.
I agree, though, that champions should not be fighting each other for the champ rank after dethronment. The elite 4 idea is good from everyone!

We toyed with an Elite Four idea early on in the planning phase, but ditched it so that the contest could be a bit simpler. Dethroned Champions can still scrimmage and participate in Special Events, so I don't see why they need to form an Elite Four. The contest has enough intricacies as is. Much of what made the final version of the rules was streamlined from a much more complex idea of mine. For example, I had an equation set up to determine player score that involved things like scrimmage win percentage, but it was cut for the idea of simple bonuses of nice round numbers. In a contest this huge, simplicity will be key.

me and three others are going to form our own elite four and set up camp on the south side of town. any challengers can find us there.

i agree that it will be easier if it is simple, but it takes away from the fun...say members could form their own alliances or such, it would add a whole new aspect to the game
of course im also being unrealistic.

ALSO MY MAP HASNT BEEN JUDGED YETHAYUKEA<>A.

[blackson]

When this contest was finally opened, I was very happy. The ideas involved were outstanding, but now some bad things are coming out. One, if this contest is to be the best map maker, why do you gain points for making a demo? This makes /every/ gym leader have a disadvantage. Secondly, maps that aren't better, are passing. I'm talking about maps that are nowhere near close to even tie-ing the gym map, not naming any. If you compare the maps that have passed, and the ones that haven't, it doesn't add up. One cause of this is that there are multiple judges; you could pass or fail depending on which one you get. You can't make one person judge every single map, but maybe pick some with a very fierce knowledge of N?

[Pheidippides]

When this contest was finally opened, I was very happy. The ideas involved were outstanding, but now some bad things are coming out. One, if this contest is to be the best map maker, why do you gain points for making a demo? This makes /every/ gym leader have a disadvantage. Secondly, maps that aren't better, are passing. I'm talking about maps that are nowhere near close to even tie-ing the gym map, not naming any. If you compare the maps that have passed, and the ones that haven't, it doesn't add up. One cause of this is that there are multiple judges; you could pass or fail depending on which one you get. You can't make one person judge every single map, but maybe pick some with a very fierce knowledge of N?

1) Ideally, the competitors should /need/ a way to get an edge on the Gym Leaders, considering the fact that the Gym Leaders are such renowned and skilled mappers. The slight bonus for being a good player as well as mapper seemed to remedy this.
2) That's your opinion. The Judges must feel differently. Sure, some Judges have different tastes than others. But isn't that a good thing? I mean, one Judge may not like your style of mapping, and so you'd be screwed if that Judge were the only one. Different tastes means equal opportunities for various mappers. And if you get a Judge that didn't like your map one week, there's a chance your next map might thrill another Judge. It's luck-of-the-draw, to a decent extent, but when you think about it, there's pretty much a guarantee that anyone good enough to pass a Gym will eventually pass it.
3) You don't need to be an N connoisseur to know a map you think is good from a map you think is bad. Besides, if we were to limit Judging candidates as you say, we'd be around forever waiting for Judges to volunteer because not that many of the old sages are active enough anymore.

You may not like some of this, or think it's unfair, but with a contest this size, it's really tough to please everyone. I'll do my best to make things work for everyone, and to make the contest as fair and fun as it can be, but I can't guarantee that everyone will be 100% satisfied. :/

And notsteve, your map will be judged this week. That much I can guarantee. People, please be patient. This week was much busier than the last. The Judges are doing a great job so far, and that's all I can ask for. I'm confident they'll get things done in time for Week 3.

[Pikman]

Secondly, maps that aren't better, are passing. I'm talking about maps that are nowhere near close to even tie-ing the gym map, not naming any. If you compare the maps that have passed, and the ones that haven't, it doesn't add up. One cause of this is that there are multiple judges; you could pass or fail depending on which one you get. You can't make one person judge every single map, but maybe pick some with a very fierce knowledge of N?

Well, that's because I just started judging :/
And I don't feel like running through 15 maps at once, either.

[blackson]

Blackson, your comment Im sure was mainly directed at me.

Partially, some others as well. The only map I found worthy enough to pass was mintnut's, and l_d's, based
soley on mapmaking.

[blackson]

1) Ideally, the competitors should /need/ a way to get an edge on the Gym Leaders, considering the fact that the Gym Leaders are such renowned and skilled mappers. The slight bonus for being a good player as well as mapper seemed to remedy this.

I just don't agree with that. You should have to beat the map.

I mean, one Judge may not like your style of mapping, and so you'd be screwed if that Judge were the only one.

Agreed.

there's pretty much a guarantee that anyone good enough to pass a Gym will eventually pass it.

Yes. Eventually

You don't need to be an N connoisseur to know a map you think is good from a map you think is bad.

http://nmaps.net/147840

Whoever judged this must have thought Templex's map was pretty bad...

[Pheidippides]

No need to knock yourself, BE_nSPIRED. And I agree with your points about focusing on the highlights, absorbing the shortcomings, and worrying about your own progress. Mind, I'll be doing my best to overcome shortcomings, and others' progress does matter a bit because it /is/ a competition.

Blackson, I'm sorry you feel that way, and there might be others who agree with you, but the Judges' opinions are final. I think they're doing a great job with the challenges so far, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with their decisions. You shouldn't worry too much about it, either. Differences in opinion are bound to happen. They even happen among the Judges, which is my point. There's a chance for everybody.

Post-Review-Edit:

1) You'd see a lot less progress that way. Everyone may be making it look easy right now, but those AGD's will come in handy against the later Gyms, which on average have higher scores than the earlier ones. That's how I sorted them. The AGD's prevent a total roadblock of the competition, which would be likely at some point because of the level of skill that the Leaders have.

2) Reagreed.

3) Again, that really can't be helped. The Judge scoring your map is pretty much luck-of-the-draw. You may end up with someone who likes your map, you may not. My point is that the opportunity is there, and besides, you're assuming the worst. What if you're not horribly unlucky with the Judges? Then you'd be doing pretty well. Differences in Judge's opinions can work for you as well as against you. Case in point...

...4) You're right, this Judge didn't have as high opinion of Templex's map as the other Judges. He also liked that map a good bit. If you honestly don't think he should've advanced (and apparently the Judge disagrees; again, bound to happen), do you think he can keep finding the low-scoring Judge that likes his map, just by chance, to keep advancing? If he's not good enough, he'll eventually get held up, just as a good mapper will eventually make it through despite hold-ups.

Another-Post-Review-Edit: Agreed with BE_nSPIRED about walking a mile in the Judges' shoes, although I don't think blackson is ruining the competition in any way. I'm glad he's voicing his opinion so that we can have this discussion because I think there are some good points to be made here.

[notsteve]

honesty, i would be happier if the judges had been hand picked, but so many people wanted to participate that it was hard to find anyone to judge.
but nothing is perfect, so just live with it

[TribulatioN]

You're right, this Judge didn't have as high opinion of Templex's map as the other Judges. He also liked that map a good bit. If you honestly don't think he should've advanced (and apparently the Judge disagrees; again, bound to happen), do you think he can keep finding the low-scoring Judge that likes his map, just by chance, to keep advancing? If he's not good enough, he'll eventually get held up, just as a good mapper will eventually make it through despite hold-ups.

That's probably the most important aspect of this competition, because of a way the system works, someone might be stuck on the first gym for quite a while, but then make a comeback as other's will be stuck further in.

The only flaw I see right now that I haven't seen mentioned, is bias in the judges. The way they get to pick who's map the judge, they can always make someone win. Like for instance, it's the beginning of judging for that week, and a judge comes along, and waits till other judges pick maps to judge, then they go and take the one that they want to give a win too.
Unless there is some secret random picking among the judges that I don't know of, then I think that should be looked at.

[Pheidippides]

You're right, this Judge didn't have as high opinion of Templex's map as the other Judges. He also liked that map a good bit. If you honestly don't think he should've advanced (and apparently the Judge disagrees; again, bound to happen), do you think he can keep finding the low-scoring Judge that likes his map, just by chance, to keep advancing? If he's not good enough, he'll eventually get held up, just as a good mapper will eventually make it through despite hold-ups.

That's probably the most important aspect of this competition, because of a way the system works, someone might be stuck on the first gym for quite a while, but then make a comeback as other's will be stuck further in.

The only flaw I see right now that I haven't seen mentioned, is bias in the judges. The way they get to pick who's map the judge, they can always make someone win. Like for instance, it's the beginning of judging for that week, and a judge comes along, and waits till other judges pick maps to judge, then they go and take the one that they want to give a win too.
Unless there is some secret random picking among the judges that I don't know of, then I think that should be looked at.

I'd like to think that the Judges wouldn't do that, seeing as they have no incentive for doing so. From what I can tell, they seem to be taking the earliest-posted challenge not yet scored whenever they chance across the forums. Random assortment would be ideal, but then we might have to wait until the end of a week to assign maps to Judge, which would suck for the Judges on busy weeks like this one. The Judges don't give you any reason to suspect or anticipate corruption, either, so why not cut them a little slack? I'm pretty darn sure they won't choke us with it. ;)