Who here plays Smash Bros Brawl?

[spudzalot]

I think marth needs to rise -- he doesn't really have any bad matchups and can control spacing so well, wario needs to fall because he has so many counterpicks that can infinite him and he can be predictable and punishable.

on your comments, I think falcon really does need to stay where he is -- he's got some decent individual attacks but they're very one-off. He doesn't have any potential in any of the key areas -- killing power, racking up damage, avoiding being killed and gimping.

I think Yoshi is very situational --with some matchups he's pretty good but for others he's abysmal. That's probably the reason he's so low. But yeah, I'd probably place him mid-tier.

And I used to play Olimar, and I can tell you he suffers falcon's problem a bit. His terrible priority means against a careful player you'll have a really hard time hitting at all with your supposedly good airs and smashes, and if you do you can't really do anything from them. His projectile, while good, is overrated -- it can be quite easily endured or hit away and it doesn't actually allow for followups. His recovery is really, really bad, I'd say possibly the worst or second worst in the game.

His grab game is the one thing which is actually good at all levels of play, and without it I think he'd be pretty low tier. This list is for the highest level of play remember.

Well Falcon belongs in low tier but I think peeps like Link and Jiggs are worse.

Yoshi's only matchup where he is completely raped is Game and Watch and Marth. The rest aren't too bad. He also has almost neutral matchups with Snake and Metaknight and and advantage (IMO) to Falco. That is a lot of the top tiers taken down.

Olimar can rack 50-60 damge in 5 seconds. By doing this:

Attatch a white pikmin > grab > pummel > down throw > grab > down throw > forward air > possible second forward air

That scenario is on a heavy character like Ganondorf or Fox. But on a lighter character just get rid of the extra downthrow and extra forward air. But that is still 40-50 damage. And horrible priority? Only in the case of a white pikmin hit. Even his neutral air has great priority. Oli's smashes arent hard to hit with, the range is great.

Also Palemoon. I am seriously submitting that list to smashboards. xD

[PALEMOON]

awesome. You gotta tell me the good reviews it gets :)

[mattk210]

all his pikmin have horrible priority. The non-pikmin attacks (nair, tilts), have decent priority but obviously tiny range. This seems to be a common misconception, I'm not sure why

A string of moves like that is extremely specific. You could probably find similar ones with other characters, and no smart player will let you do that unless it's a surprise. His smashes are relatively fast and very ranged but the low priority means you can clang with them with pretty much anything and they're not fast enough to spam repeatedly to keep a player with good timing away. A sure sign of a weak olimar is excessive use of smashes -- in my opinion they should be kill moves only, or when you have a clear opening.

The best way to play olimar seems to be to spam pikmin and when they approach, run away or find some way to grab, and follow this up with some airs or perhaps some stuttered smashes. It's a good thing he has his grab and projectiles like this, because he's really bad at actually attacking. I think these advantages and disadvantages roughly balance, thus mid-tier.

also, jiggs has good recovery and can WOP and link has good KO potential and projectiles (although they both have glaring weaknesses). Falcon really has nothing to capitalize on, save perhaps stage-spiking with the knee. No one I know really plays those bottom characters though, I don't know a lot about them and you could be right.

[Condog]

Ooh, thanks for those links, i'm finding out all sorts of awesome techniques for IC. So far i can desynch a little, although i have trouble keeping it going. I can do a few chaingrabs, (popo grab to nana grab sometimes followed by a popo forward air), but i just can't get a third on. But even looking through those guides helped out, i'm doing much better against my brother so far (he mains Ike, Lucario and Lucas).

While we're on IC, is it considered poor gameplay to spam iceblocks and then dash, attack and duck out again? Also, are continuous chaingrabs considered 'unfair'?

[mattk210]

While we're on IC, is it considered poor gameplay to spam iceblocks and then dash, attack and duck out again? Also, are continuous chaingrabs considered 'unfair'?

Unfair? Nothing is unfair to me (in my mind it's an integral part of the ICs, and not using it means purposely playing under your potential), but your casual brother might not like it. if you're just playing for fun, just let them go after a few grabs, knowing in your mind that you would be able to take the stock. But in a tournament or money match, no-one's going to call you out for playing to win. In general, do whatever works. I can't visualise the iceblock strategy working that well because the ice is so blockable, but if it does work, by all means use it. Just be sure to mix it up.

[Condog]

While we're on IC, is it considered poor gameplay to spam iceblocks and then dash, attack and duck out again? Also, are continuous chaingrabs considered 'unfair'?

Unfair? Nothing is unfair to me (in my mind it's an integral part of the ICs, and not using it means purposely playing under your potential), but your casual brother might not like it. if you're just playing for fun, just let them go after a few grabs, knowing in your mind that you would be able to take the stock. But in a tournament or money match, no-one's going to call you out for playing to win. In general, do whatever works. I can't visualise the iceblock strategy working that well, but if it does, by all means. Just be sure to mix it up.

Okay, cool. Cos he's totally a scrub. Even though he won't admit it. Anything and everything can be unfair to him.

And he doesn't have to worry about the chaingrabs at this point. But in time, he will learn to fear me.

One very important thing: what controller do you guys use? I use the wiimote/nunchuck combo, but i'm feeling i'll prolly have to migrate back to gamecube controller if i want to go beyond casual play.

[mattk210]

we're all used to the cube controller from melee. I cant think of any actual disadvantages to the wiimote-nunchuck though, aside from that it takes batteries and is banned in some tournaments because the number of wiis there can cause connection problems.

Actually, i don't think there's an equivalent to the C-stick. That's useful.

[Condog]

we're all used to the cube controller from melee. I cant think of any actual disadvantages to the wiimote-nunchuck though, aside from that it takes batteries and is banned in some tournaments because the number of wiis there can cause connection problems.

Actually, i don't think there's an equivalent to the C-stick. That's useful.

Well, from what i've noticed, the wiimote has less buttons, which means i'm forced to use grab as A+B, which is needlessly complicated, and the dpad is way too hard to reach effectively. And you can count out 1, 2 and 1+2 for anything except taunting.

[mattk210]

I found this thread if it helps: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207476

[Condog]

Ah, that is helpful. The idea of using jump as A+B so you can have grab as c is a good idea. I'll have to try it.

[Deathconciousness]

we're all used to the cube controller from melee. I cant think of any actual disadvantages to the wiimote-nunchuck though, aside from that it takes batteries and is banned in some tournaments because the number of wiis there can cause connection problems.

Actually, i don't think there's an equivalent to the C-stick. That's useful.

Well, from what i've noticed, the wiimote has less buttons, which means i'm forced to use grab as A+B, which is needlessly complicated, and the dpad is way too hard to reach effectively. And you can count out 1, 2 and 1+2 for anything except taunting.

Pressing left on the control pad at the top of the wiimote is set to grab by default as well. I use that whenever i play with the wiimote, even though i prefer the gamecube controller.

[Rikaninja]

I usually play on Wii, but I rarely play as I only play at friends house. I don't have a fav guy.

[Atilla]

I use the Cube controller, because, yes, I'm used to it from Melee. Plus, it's easier to reach all the buttons then with the Wiimote+nunchuck.

[Donfuy]

*feels ashamed*

I... I use the Wiimote, ONLY.

I tried to change to Wiimote+Nunchuk, but It was way too confusing. The keys on the Wiimote only configuration are better and easier to play with (of course, in my point of view)


I'm getting used to Capt. Falcon, with it's side-smash and up-smash(YEAH! - he says) attacks being extremely effective the most of the times.

It's being dificult, but I think it's natural, knowing that I'm changing from the round Kirby (the only character that, in my hands, Kirby is affraid of, is Snake), to the sharp-edged Capt. Falcon.


Bah, Kirby, Capt. Falcon, Mario and Lucario.



Oh, and I don't freaking know how well I play, as I always play with my brother, and sometimes, my friends (who, sadly, are PS fans and Nintendo almost-haters). I've played online one day, I was almost always winning, but that was probably because they are all some noobs probably =P.

[PALEMOON]

*feels ashamed*

I... I use the Wiimote, ONLY.

I tried to change to Wiimote+Nunchuk, but It was way too confusing. The keys on the Wiimote only configuration are better and easier to play with (of course, in my point of view)
.

you sir, have earned my respect. Sometimes we make people play with the sideways wiimote as a hilarious handicap, and i think it's terrible.

[jasdanu]

i am best with link, fox, ness, and lucas

[spudzalot]

Matt that combo I said is UNESCAPEABLE because of hitstun. Olimar is good and he does have good priority, he just does. His fire and electric pikmin can cut through any move (besides some DDD aerials). He also can combo u-airs and upB together.

Also I use Wiimote (with nunchuck). But I can switch back to gamecube any time, I just need a good controller which I dont have. So Wiimote (with nunchuck) it is.

[Rikaninja]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that I use the Wiimote too and I also play the old version of Brawl on the comp.

[Donfuy]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that I use the Wiimote too and I also play the old version of Brawl on the comp.

You mean SSB. ;)

Me too. My passion for SSB grew after many and many and many hours of PC gaming.


Fox's stage was great, it's a pity that in SSBB (I don't know how it was in Melee), it's way smaller.

[mattk210]

Pikmin have bad priority

http://smashbros.neoseeker.com/wiki/Olimar

I used to main him.. really his pikmin DO have bad priority (although maybe not as bad as I made it seem before). Most olimars will advise nair and the tilts to eat through attacks (this may have confused you because you said earlier that even the nair had good priority) the upB is an exception, but that's only because it's a tether. Also, pikmin have very good priority against their element (red goes through fire), so this may be confusing you also.

Also people often talk of ordering priority - red has the most ordering priority -- it comes out first when you whistle -- but this is irrelevant in terms of attack priority.

Also, a bit like metaknight, the fact that the hitboxes are disjointed can lead you to think that you have high priority -- you may not actually get hurt often if you're outprioritized.

[jackass]

I use the WiiMote+Chuck ,,, and only that.
I have every version of SSB but i have become used to the wiimote so much a cant play with the cube anymore :(

I main with Ness or Lucas who i have mastered
My Secondarys are - Ice Climbers, Wolf or Link

[Condog]

I use the WiiMote+Chuck ,,, and only that.
I have every version of SSB but i have become used to the wiimote so much a cant play with the cube anymore :(

Haha, thats what happened to me as well.

I've just started to use Lucario and Peach recently, and i'm liking their play styles. It's especially nice when Peach pulls a bomb-omb out of the ground instead of a turnip. Awesome.

[spudzalot]

I use the WiiMote+Chuck ,,, and only that.
I have every version of SSB but i have become used to the wiimote so much a cant play with the cube anymore :(

Haha, thats what happened to me as well.

I've just started to use Lucario and Peach recently, and i'm liking their play styles. It's especially nice when Peach pulls a bomb-omb out of the ground instead of a turnip. Awesome.

That has never happened to me and I spam turnips so much! Because with ledgegaurding I pick up three turnips and throw them all above me, sortof creating a wall. I do get Mr. Saturn every once in a while and one beamsword. :]

And Matt. Thats wierd, I could have sworn that they did. But nonetheless because of the hitboxes in his aerials are so much bigger then the actually pikmin there is a extremely small change that someone would actually hit one.

[Xious]

Why is Metaknight about to be banned? I don't use him much, so I wouldn't know...

[Condog]

Why is Metaknight about to be banned? I don't use him much, so I wouldn't know...

From what i can gather by browsing smashboards, it's because his character is so much better at higher levels than others. He has higher priority, fast moves, great recovery, etc, there are few characters that can effectively counter him, and as such he has become so overused that the majority of tournament winners use Metaknight.