The Advancement of NUMA

[Amadeus]

It seems to me, that NUMA needs to be fixed. I won't put forth a massive argument here, nor will I attempt to thoroughly convince you one way or the other, but I will lay down my basic argument.
At the moment, NUMA is run by the older mappers. The problem here lies however (and I don't mean to point fingers) that NUMA is being run by non mappers. Many of the older mappers, most actually, have given up mapping besides the occasional map every other month or so. They rarely visit NUMA, and have stuck around mainly because of the great friends they've made on this wonderful community. My proposition is basically that NUMA be revamped, and the reins be given to the next generation of mappers.
The 'Big' mappers of old (ATOB, LV, B_T, etc) are all at this point, inactive, or frequently inactive members of the community, and yet these people are the key runners of the site. The non-mappers, to effect, are running a mapping community. It is hard for these people to tell what is really going on in a site they aren't really members of.
As shown in http://forum.therealn.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1538, Arachnid has effectively given up his reins, which at this point was perhaps a necessary step. It is nothing at all against Arachnid, but as he admits himself he just doesn't have enough time nor involvement.
Many people are considering the recently developing project of AltArc their savior, something they can run to to get rid of NUMA's problems. My take however, is that Numa's problem isn't programming, it is that the management is outdated. They are uninvolved with the NUMA community and are for the most part detached with the site. Although programming is going to have a vital role in the new NUMA, I doubt it is the only concern at the time being.
Also, many people have ignored this downward trend on Nmaps as a minor or temporary problem. These people however, for the most part, haven't even made or submitted a map in months, let alone been an active member of the site.
My call is that NUMA is updated and managed by people who are involved and motivated to improve the NUMA community. Yes we'll need a programmer. But we'll also need people to rate maps, help newcomers, and post helpful solutions that they themselves can't follow through on, but that others can.
I've set up an IRC channel, irc://irc.waypasteleven.com/nmaps . Beyond this thread, I'm hoping people will take a more active role in improving the community, instead of watching it fall and crumble.

[origami_alligator]

It bothers me that when I read through that post I think that you are the one who is out of touch with NUMA.

Point 1: Moderators are the people who absolutely need to be involved with the community. From what I know, lord_day, Skyline and I visit NUMA quite often. I can't say the same for wedgie and Clovic as I don't know, but 3 moderators is definitely enough to clean up most messes. Moderators are there to make sure the community acts in an orderly fashion.

Point 2: Administrators don't actually deal with the commoners. They are there to pass final judgment on a situation that needs their power to do so. Admins do things like ban people, make important announcements about the site in general, and make sure the site itself is running properly, NOT the community.

Point 3: I have seen very few people within the last year or so that would make good moderators OR admins.

[a happy song]

The moderating team are doing their job very well. I frequently receive reports and requests from them and they're taking care of the day to day pruning and weeding excellently.

I can't speak for the other members of the admin team, but I'm constantly active on the site and very involved in helping the community with any queries or problems they may have.

I may not be the mapping machine I once was, but I'm constantly playing/commenting on/adding maps to favs and giving feedback and advice where I think it's needed.

Don't get me wrong here, I don't feel the need to defend myself against these claims, I'm merely attempting to adjust your poor perception of the situation.

There is also no downward trend per se, NUMA is just getting larger. Of course this will mean the community won't be as cosy and warm as it once was, but that's not really something we can control unless we close of registration or screen applicants for accounts. Both of which are ridiculous ideas.

-

The programming aspects of the site will most likely take a while to be resolved, so what can the staff do in stead? I attempted to manually run the featured queue, but there's only so much hounding I can do before the community's idleness takes it's toll.

What EXACTLY do you perceive the problem to be, Amadeus? You say that the staff need to be more active, what does your ideal entail?


-


Wedgie said it well in another NUMA complaint thread:

I think the main reason NUMA looks a lot worse now than it did is purely because of the volume of people using it. If you look back a few years, the great mappers like tktktk, maximo, Heartview, Aju, Stepself, Sweep, Lucidium, formica, Nevermore and Sendy, to name a few, used to make up a fairly large percentage of the total maps that were posted, as there were fewer members in total. But now, there are so many members that the good mappers are overwhelmed by the 'average/poor' mappers, so you see a lot more of the filler than the good content. There are probably just as many good mappers now as there used to be, maybe even more, but they make up a far smaller percentage overall because of the massive rise in members.

[Amadeus]

My take on the situation, Atob, is that there appears to be quite a few problems which need to be addressed and aren't. Between the Uservoice site, the Forums, and the IRC, I hear quite a bit of complaints. It feels to me, that none of these things are being fixed. For months glitches like 'Results Truncated' and 'Maps with Unread Comments' have been stagnating on Uservoice, and haven't been addressed. Tons of new ideas are being generated, and nothing is coming of them. Threads are popping up daily complaining about NUMA, an alternate NUMA is currently being formed, and people are mapping less and less. Shouldn't that perhaps signal a downward trend?

Honestly, I think these things need to be fixed. NUMA needs to be constantly updated and needs to meet the demands of its users. I'm not pointing fingers, Mods and Admin are great at their job, but that is just the problem. Mods and Admin can only run the site as it is, maintain it but can't update it, which is what I think needs to happen. The only person running the site's updates currently is Arachnid. I'm saying perhaps the inactive members of the community need to pass on the reins to the next generation, which is hugely involved in the site. Arachnid running NUMA is like a preoccupied monarch running foreign territories, and I'm calling for a rebellion. The NUMA site isn't getting the updates and fixes that it needs or deserves.

[LittleViking]

I'm saying perhaps the inactive members of the community need to pass on the reins to the next generation, which is hugely involved in the site.

Arachnid's coding opportunity has been open since January and no one, new or old, has stepped up to that challenge. :P The next generation of Numa users may be hugely involved in the site, but that doesn't mean they have the technical skill to really make any changes. I agree that additional coders could make Numa a better place, but it's not just a matter of putting a sash on everybody's favorite member and seeing all the problems start to fade away.

Beyond coding, though, Numa has some social issues you could address. How many maps go unrated, for example? I don't know if people are mapping less and less like you say, but I know they're rating less and less. In the old days, there was a rule of thumb that 1/3 of maps were rated, 1/3 were unrated and 1/3 were deleted. It held up pretty accurately for a long time. But when I check Numa now, only 5-15% of maps get rated. Why don't maps get 5 ratings anymore? Is it just that too many maps are submitted each day? What can be done to get more maps rated? You could organize a committee of dedicated users to work on issues like this.

[Spawn of Yanni]

The problem I think you're trying to identify is that the only person who can make any changes (Arachnid) simply cannot any longer, for his own personal reasons (as he himself has already pointed out). The solution to this would not be to give NUMA to the mappers of new, 'cause, uh, that doesn't really make much sense. You need to be able to handle the programming to make changes to NUMA; being an active mapper has no connection to the matter.

As I understand it, those who the community trust and feel should be in charge of something so central to the community as NUMA are in fact interested in taking charge and making changes. That is to say, LV would love (I believe) to go ahead and grab the reins. Hell, I'm sure the able ones in the "new" community will be great with NUMA assistance. I mean, Gforce has gone and taken the initiative there. As far as I know, there haven't been any other coders offering to, uh, "save NUMA from the dire dire situation it is currently in", is it?

Look, for the record, threads really aren't popping up daily complaining about NUMA - amlt isn't even nearly active enough for that to happen. People are in no way mapping less and less. That's just an absurd suggestion, like, f'serious. NUMA does need its updates and someone active on its neck, I do agree with that, but it's really not crashing and burning like some people seem to think it is.

Edit: *sigh* I figured LV would get there first. I spent way too much effort typing all that to just give up at the "someone posted before you" screen, though.

[origami_alligator]

Honestly, I think these things need to be fixed. NUMA needs to be constantly updated and needs to meet the demands of its users. I'm not pointing fingers, Mods and Admin are great at their job, but that is just the problem. Mods and Admin can only run the site as it is, maintain it but can't update it, which is what I think needs to happen. The only person running the site's updates currently is Arachnid. I'm saying perhaps the inactive members of the community need to pass on the reins to the next generation, which is hugely involved in the site. Arachnid running NUMA is like a preoccupied monarch running foreign territories, and I'm calling for a rebellion. The NUMA site isn't getting the updates and fixes that it needs or deserves.

Again, I'm baffled by your post.

Arachnid released the entire website for people to use and build off of. It's there for the taking. Anybody who wants to code for the website and make additions to it is perfectly able to, since they have all the information they need to do so. Making updates to NUMA doesn't require being directly involved in the community, nor does it require a moderator/admin position. It requires someone who would like to see bugs and errors with the site fixed and has the ability to do so.

Unfortunately your "rebellion" seems a little unfounded. Arachnid is handing out his position to whoever he thinks can fulfill it. Until someone can code the things he's asked them to so that they may take over the website from him, things are going to continue to be as they have been.

[Atilla]

My take on the situation, Atob, is that there appears to be quite a few problems which need to be addressed and aren't. Between the Uservoice site, the Forums, and the IRC, I hear quite a bit of complaints. It feels to me, that none of these things are being fixed. For months glitches like 'Results Truncated' and 'Maps with Unread Comments' have been stagnating on Uservoice, and haven't been addressed. Tons of new ideas are being generated, and nothing is coming of them. Threads are popping up daily complaining about NUMA, an alternate NUMA is currently being formed, and people are mapping less and less. Shouldn't that perhaps signal a downward trend?

Waitwaitwait.

You said that you need active mappers running the community, but everything you just complained about requires site administrators, coders, web designers, etc. to implement. You can't fix the "results truncated" problem by making maps. Handing control to a bunch of people who pump out maps won't help solve these problems, because the vast majority of those people lack the technical skill, administrative ability or motivation to fix it. As others have pointed out, the code for NUMA is freely available. These people already have everything they need to solve these problems - but they don't. In fact, most don't even try because they're not willing to put the time in. Gforce seems to be the only person who will actually be proactive and do some work themselves, aside from LV and the existing staff.

[Amadeus]

My take on the situation, Atob, is that there appears to be quite a few problems which need to be addressed and aren't. Between the Uservoice site, the Forums, and the IRC, I hear quite a bit of complaints. It feels to me, that none of these things are being fixed. For months glitches like 'Results Truncated' and 'Maps with Unread Comments' have been stagnating on Uservoice, and haven't been addressed. Tons of new ideas are being generated, and nothing is coming of them. Threads are popping up daily complaining about NUMA, an alternate NUMA is currently being formed, and people are mapping less and less. Shouldn't that perhaps signal a downward trend?

Waitwaitwait.

You said that you need active mappers running the community, but everything you just complained about requires site administrators, coders, web designers, etc. to implement. You can't fix the "results truncated" problem by making maps. Handing control to a bunch of people who pump out maps won't help solve these problems, because the vast majority of those people lack the technical skill, administrative ability or motivation to fix it. As others have pointed out, the code for NUMA is freely available. These people already have everything they need to solve these problems - but they don't. In fact, most don't even try because they're not willing to put the time in. Gforce seems to be the only person who will actually be proactive and do some work themselves, aside from LV and the existing staff.

Firstly, wouldn't the active members of the site who are affected by NUMA and its problems be the most motivated to fix them? But yes, I agree, it will take programmers and web designers and coders. And yes, Gforce, LV and existing staff are the only active ones trying to do some work. This thread, in simpler terms, is a call for action. If you (addressing all members of NUMA) want NUMA fixed, lets get together and brainstorm and fix the problems. Lets actually be proactive about this.

Also, addressing Southpaw and LV, yes I understand that Arachnid has made the coding completely available. Please, southpaw, stop getting so defensive about things. I'm not at all criticizing any of the site admin, moderators, or coders. This thread is a Call to Arms for all the Numians out there who aren't being proactive about this. If the problem needs to be fixed, the next generation needs to take the reins from Arachnid who is holding them out with open arms. If I wasn't completely clear originally the purpose of this thread, I think I am now. This topic is calling for Numians who want to advance the quality of Numa, whether it is through programming or coding or web design or rating and commenting on maps.


-

Beyond coding, though, Numa has some social issues you could address. How many maps go unrated, for example? I don't know if people are mapping less and less like you say, but I know they're rating less and less. In the old days, there was a rule of thumb that 1/3 of maps were rated, 1/3 were unrated and 1/3 were deleted. It held up pretty accurately for a long time. But when I check Numa now, only 5-15% of maps get rated. Why don't maps get 5 ratings anymore? Is it just that too many maps are submitted each day? What can be done to get more maps rated? You could organize a committee of dedicated users to work on issues like this.

I agree, it feels like people aren't as involved in Numa as they used to be. Contrary to prior opinions on this thread, I think people are making less maps. KKstrong has verified this, saying he used to make 3-5 maps a day back in the 'Golden Age' of Numa. So perhaps it isn't the sheer quantity of maps but more of the sheer quantity of beginner maps and decrease in mapping of the more experienced users. Secondly, many of these people (KK being one of the more active Numians on a long list) don't participate and aren't involved much in Numa. They map rarely, comment rarely, and rate rarely. This decrease in dedicated members of the site leads to Noob maps being spammed in excess, many maps going unrated (I agree with you statistic of 5-15% of maps are rated) and I believe this is generally a result of people not caring about Numa as much anymore. Once again, this thread is a call to arms to all Numians.

I may consider starting a thread for the comittee you describe, but I started this thread to brainstorm ideas for what is wrong and how to solve it. What you're saying is exactly what I was hoping for. The more ideas like that there are, and the more active Numians who are willing to take their time to execute it, the better Numa becomes. If enough people second your idea, I'll start another thread (unless you want to organize it).

[Nexx]

First of all guys, it's pretty apparent that he's making a "call to arms", as he says. He's not asking for mapping to be done, he's asking for users of the site to be the admins, not people who don't use the site (Arachnid).

But you know what? It's way more general than that. Let me lay out the problem as I see it.

There is only one person who does the coding for NUMA - Arachnid. Unfortunately, Arachnid is currently rather inactive. That's why basic issues that should have been fixed ages ago are still around, and don't even bother thinking about other, more optional fixes. The other problem is that Arachnid has set up the site using Python through GoogleApps, which I see as a more obscure approach than just PHP, as NUMA was before. Had Arachnid stuck to PHP, I think he would have been able to summon more helpers (best example I can think of is GForce). As is, someone needs to take the reins, but it seems like the coding of the site has been made more complicated, so that fewer people (from an already smallish pool, I would imagine) are up to the challenge. The result is NUMA being stuck in a bit of a rut. Nothing's being updated, and no one is stepping up to help (partly because they simply can't).

How's that summary?

---

As for what's "wrong" with the NUMA community, atob hit the nail on the head - the community is bigger. Here are my explanations for various complaints I've seen lately:

• Maps aren't getting rated. First, that's 'cuz a lot of them aren't that good, and what reason is there for people to waste their time when a clearly noob map shows up in the thumbnail? Now if you're saying that decent maps aren't getting rated, I agree, and sadly that's just an ugly truth given (1) the size of the community, (2) the ease of making maps, and (3) the replay-value of an individual map. (By that I mean that, for example, UT maps are built to be played over and over and over. It's a characteristic of any decent map because of the structure of the game. An individual N map can have a lot of replay value, but in general they're one-time deals.) But because of that truth, there are places to go where you can swap rates and comments about maps, even if it's just a PM to another member. You have to do some work to "involve yourself in the community", but it gets the job done.
• People aren't mapping as much. Hogwash. It's just normal mapper turnaround, give or take coincidence (or certain time of the schoolyear). Perhaps your sample size is limited to your friends or your favorite authors or other mappers with whom you associate yourself ("your generation", kind of). Also, you may be thinking of the next issue.
• There's more noob maps nowadays! The bigger a community gets, the more noobs it has. Sad but true. As far as noob maps being so prevalent, you know why that's happening? There used to be a goddarn cap on the # of maps a user could submit within a certain amount of time. Clearly, the removal of that cap was a bad policy decision. I've been meaning to put this up on Uservoice and start a thread about it for a while now.

[epigone]

One of the main issues with why the "old mappers" are not as active anymore is because they are older now and have college, jobs, even marriage that also takes time. Those who are the most active tend to be younger people who simply have the time to be more active. With age comes (hopefully) maturity and knowledge, two things I think are necessary to run a website.

[a happy song]

My take on the situation, Atob, is that there appears to be quite a few problems which need to be addressed and aren't. Between the Uservoice site, the Forums, and the IRC, I hear quite a bit of complaints. It feels to me, that none of these things are being fixed. For months glitches like 'Results Truncated' and 'Maps with Unread Comments' have been stagnating on Uservoice, and haven't been addressed. Tons of new ideas are being generated, and nothing is coming of them. Threads are popping up daily complaining about NUMA, an alternate NUMA is currently being formed, and people are mapping less and less. Shouldn't that perhaps signal a downward trend?

Honestly, I think these things need to be fixed. NUMA needs to be constantly updated and needs to meet the demands of its users. I'm not pointing fingers, Mods and Admin are great at their job, but that is just the problem. Mods and Admin can only run the site as it is, maintain it but can't update it, which is what I think needs to happen. The only person running the site's updates currently is Arachnid. I'm saying perhaps the inactive members of the community need to pass on the reins to the next generation, which is hugely involved in the site. Arachnid running NUMA is like a preoccupied monarch running foreign territories, and I'm calling for a rebellion. The NUMA site isn't getting the updates and fixes that it needs or deserves.

Your initial complaint was that the social aspects of NUMA needed greater management. Now you're saying that the site itself needs to be fixed, and the mods and admins are doing a great job... not only are you confusing yourself, but you you're also annoying.

Bottom line:

NUMA has technical flaws that will only be resolved once a person(s) of sufficient ability step forward and commit to the cause.

NUMA is expanding, and unfortunately this means the quality ratio will drop.

NUMA is run efficiently and smoothly by the staff. Whenever a problem arises (spammed maps, abusive members, etc..) it is reported either to a mod or myself and dealt with quickly.

So, as you can see, the only problem we have is with the technical aspects, and I agree that for a community to thrive it needs constant care and attention. NUMA needs a coder or we wait for Alt Arc to catch up.

[otters~1]

This thread is a Call to Arms for all the Numians out there...

To arms, Narnia!

[Atilla]

Firstly, wouldn't the active members of the site who are affected by NUMA and its problems be the most motivated to fix them?

In my experience the active members of the site who are most affected by the problems typically stand around the water cooler complaining to each other that "someone" should do "something". To put it in a slightly less cynical manner, most users are just that - users. They go to NUMA to post maps and stuff, not to be an amateur web designer or a sysadmin. As I said, they don't have the skills, and they don't want to invest the time or have that responsibility. Go and look through the Contests and Tournaments section on the old forums, and you'll see people dropping out of their judging or mapping obligations by the dozen, because people commit themselves and then realize they don't want to have to run updates every week and do all this stuff and be responsible for everyone else's enjoyment. And that's a relatively small thing which they like and have the skills to do - it shouldn't be any surprise that people aren't exactly flocking to maintain an entire website.

[Amadeus]

Your initial complaint was that the social aspects of NUMA needed greater management. Now you're saying that the site itself needs to be fixed, and the mods and admins are doing a great job... not only are you confusing yourself, but you you're also annoying...So, as you can see, the only problem we have is with the technical aspects, and I agree that for a community to thrive it needs constant care and attention.

Is it of my understanding that you are completely denying that there are no social problems on Numa? Wouldn't that contradict your prior comment that Numa is having problems because it is getting larger? And if you read this thread, isn't everyone disagreeing with you? Both Avarin and Little Viking have cited problems, and Amlt's and Radium's respective threads also have host of complaints that (a) maps aren't getting attention/ratings and (b) maps are being spammed. Your statement that there are no social problems is verging on fallacy, if not the fact it were an opinion.

NUMA has technical flaws that will only be resolved once a person(s) of sufficient ability step forward and commit to the cause.

That is exactly what I am trying to do on this thread? How many times must I reemphasize this? I am asking for people of sufficient ability to step forward and commit to the cause.

NUMA is expanding, and unfortunately this means the quality ratio will drop.

That sounds to me an awful lot like a social and mapping problem.

NUMA is run efficiently and smoothly by the staff. Whenever a problem arises (spammed maps, abusive members, etc..) it is reported either to a mod or myself and dealt with quickly.

That is completely subjective, and bias. However, I've already cited the good work of the staff, why you need to constantly emphasize so much, I don't know. Your defensive behaviour is leaning towards immature.

NUMA needs a coder or we wait for Alt Arc to catch up

We need a coder. I'm addressing the public now: AltArc will still be plagued by the same problems as Numa and will be fixed by the same methods as Numa. Instead of running away whenever there are problems, why don't we deal with what we have, because we as a community can't constantly run off at the first sign of noobs, snipers, and spam to another site.

[Radium]

I fully support Amadeus on this matter. Ever since the redesign, NUMA has fallen into a state of disrepair. The site is filled with glitches. I am currently being plagued with the "1 map with unread comments" when there are none glitch. It is ANNOYING. And are these glitches/bugs getting fixed? Not at all. Arachnid hasn't fixed a thing. This is, frankly, unacceptable.

And don't even get me started on the social aspect of NUMA. These are my thoughts.

[mintnut]

You revolutionists are pissing into the wind until someone does step forward and devote a huge amount of their time into maintaining numa, and no amount of belligerent shouting at the admins and moderators will change this. The number of identical complaints being lain at numa's door, with the instigators fully aware that no one can currently answer them is getting boring.

[Amadeus]

Seriously Mintnut? This thread is for the exact thing you're saying people should do, and you're criticizing people for it.
This thread is for action, for actually solving instead of complaining. I'm trying to organize the improvement of Numa and coordinate these improvements. Isn't that exactly what you are telling/advising us to do?

On a second note, I'm not criticizing the moderators and admin. Please read the entire thread before criticizing me.

[Radium]

with the instigators fully aware that no one can currently answer them is getting boring.

...

That's the point. Someone needs to step up.

Edit - Your negative attitude leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

[a happy song]

Amadeus, your thread makes no revalations. We're all aware of the issues surrounding NUMA currently. If you really cared, you'd be getting involved instead of making one of the most ignorant OPs I've read in a long time, and then adapting it to suit as your opinions are picked apart by your betters.

Simple fact: NUMA doesn't have the tech support it needs to sustain itself efficiently but the staff do a great job with what they have.

You want to help? Really? Then get involved somehow. PM the staff and ask how you can help. Speak with those who've put themselves forward for coding positions and see if there's any thing you can do.

Creating a post to attack the very people who sustain this community with their time and effort and care just makes you look like a spoilt brat throwing his toys from the pram.

There's no need for a revolution, and if there were you'd certainly not be the idiot to lead it.

[Amadeus]

Amadeus, your thread makes no revalations. We're all aware of the issues surrounding NUMA currently. If you really cared, you'd be getting involved instead of making one of the most ignorant OPs I've read in a long time, and then adapting it to suit as your opinions are picked apart by your betters.

Simple fact: NUMA doesn't have the tech support it needs to sustain itself efficiently but the staff do a great job with what they have.

You want to help? Really? Then get involved somehow. PM the staff and ask how you can help. Speak with those who've put themselves forward for coding positions and see if there's any thing you can do.

Creating a post to attack the very people who sustain this community with their time and effort and care just makes you look like a spoilt brat throwing his toys from the pram.

There's no need for a revolution, and if there were you'd certainly not be the idiot to lead it.

WTF. You either are completely insecure, or you can't read. I have repeated 3 times in a one page thread that I'm not criticizing anyone, moderators, admins, Arachnid, or anyone out there who could be helping and isn't. The fact that when I simply post a forum hoping that people will help out sustaining Numa, you come out and feel threatened and continue to attack me calling me a "spoilt brat" and an "idiot", when I have complimented your efforts and what the mods and admin are doing...

Arachnid has effectively given up his reins, which at this point was perhaps a necessary step. It is nothing at all against Arachnid, but as he admits himself he just doesn't have enough time nor involvement.

Nothing there criticizing Arachnid, at least that I can see.

Mods and Admin are great at their job

I don't see anything there criticizing either mods or admin. Hmmm.... In fact, it seems I'm actually complimenting them. To be honest, I see zero basis for your arguments.

I'm not at all criticizing any of the site admin, moderators, or coders

And there I am again, emphasizing that I'm not criticizing you guys. Please, stop getting so defensive.

On a second note, I'm not criticizing the moderators and admin.

And look, there I am again saying I'm not criticizing site administrators. So now, in this post I am going to say it again. And because you didn't see it the first time. Or the second. Or the third. I'm going to say it again, for the fourth time.
I'm not criticizing any of the admin, moderators, Arachnid, the Numa community, or anyone who disputes my argument

[a happy song]

prattle prattle guff, etc..

Read your op again, please.

My call is that NUMA is updated and managed by people who are involved and motivated to improve the NUMA community. Yes we'll need a programmer. But we'll need involved leaders and managers and admin, too.

Your very assumption that the staff are not involved is an insult to the time, effort, and care they put in to making the site run as smoothly as possible. If we weren't doing our jobs, the place would be in a much more sorry state.

You're still not helping, and you're still ignorant.

[epigone]

I think this is the thread you were talking about atob, but you didn't link to it in your PM. Either way, I'm not going to lock this because until you and Amadeus starting flaming each other, there was an actual discussion occurring.

Please keep the posts relevant and flame free so we can actual have productive discussion guys, thanks.

[a happy song]

I think this is the thread you were talking about atob, but you didn't link to it in your PM. Either way, I'm not going to lock this because until you and Amadeus starting flaming each other, there was an actual discussion occurring.

Please keep the posts relevant and flame free so we can actual have productive discussion guys, thanks.

There is no relevant discussion here that hasn't been covered in more productive threads.

All Amadeus has done is insult the staff of NUMA (see my previous post), and whine about problems that have no short term solution (the influx of new members = a drop in average quality of submission) without even the slightest hint at ideas for improvement.

His posts are steeped in ignorance, and he is being idiotic and negative with his assumptions and floundering opinions.

If you can't see a reason for a lock here, that's down to you, but the way this thread has been presented is certainly no basis for any type of progressive and positive debate.

[mintnut]

I have repeated 3 times in a one page thread that I'm not criticizing anyone

Tantamount to saying "no offense, but" before launching into an offensive rant.

I'm out now. No more mintnut opining here.