abortion

[aids]

...not having sex...

Well that's not a fucking option.

That's the not fucking option.

I guess Dave knows what I'm trying to say. "You can't miss what you never had" is my new mantra on the topic.

[blue_tetris]

I guess Dave knows what I'm trying to say. "You can't miss what you never had" is my new mantra on the topic.

Wahahahahahahaha.

I don't think you'll like the statement that makes relating to abortion. Maybe rethink the mantra, or examine your subconscious.

[SkyPanda]

"You can't miss what you never had" is my new mantra on the topic.

But what if deep down, your soul knows it's being deprived of one of the most beautiful, special relationships between two people and is hurt by that?

[Radium]

"You can't miss what you never had" is my new mantra on the topic.

But what if deep down, your soul knows it's being deprived of one of the most beautiful, special relationships between two people and is hurt by that?

it isn't necessarily going to be special. the mom could be a crack addict.

[Tanner]

Pro-choice because civil liberties are double plus good. But general against killing babies.

[blue_tetris]

I thought you've always been against liberties altogether, Tanner.

Just when you think you know a dude...

[Tanner]

Even my facets have facets.

[sheganican]

a fetus IS NOT ALIVE, THEREFORE CANNOT BE KILLED
a fetus WILL NOT HOLD A GRUDGE
a fetus WILL FORGIVE
a fetus WILL FORGET

im pro-not-dumbass-christians-who-let-their-religion-cloud-every-other-aspect-of-their-lives

[SlappyMcGee]

a fetus IS NOT ALIVE, THEREFORE CANNOT BE KILLED
a fetus WILL NOT HOLD A GRUDGE
a fetus WILL FORGIVE
a fetus WILL FORGET

im pro-not-dumbass-christians-who-let-their-religion-cloud-every-other-aspect-of-their-lives

I agree with you, and yet, this is among the dumbest posts I've ever seen.

[bobaganuesh_2]

I'm really torn on this issue, but I'd probably have to go with pro-life. Unless it's dangerous for the mother, the baby has been seriously abused while in the womb (FAS, drugs, etc), or in the case of rape or incest.

any pregnancy has the potential to be dangerous for the mother. Life is a risk.

Well that's not a fucking option.

That's the not fucking option.

I guess Dave knows what I'm trying to say. "You can't miss what you never had" is my new mantra on the topic.

well is it better to have fucked and contracted AIDS than not to have fucked at all? The way I see it, life is both a gift and a curse. The choice should belong to the mother, although what may be best for the baby may not be food for the mother.

a fetus IS NOT ALIVE, THEREFORE CANNOT BE KILLED
a fetus WILL NOT HOLD A GRUDGE
a fetus WILL FORGIVE
a fetus WILL FORGET

im pro-not-dumbass-christians-who-let-their-religion-cloud-every-other-aspect-of-their-lives

I find it quite funny that the majority of the religion debates in this forum are revolved around Christianity/monotheism. I have yet to see an argument whether the I Ching is just a travelling guide written by a blind driver.

[aids]

The real question is whether you think an abortion kills a baby (and if you think a fetus has life). I do, and therefore I don't support a fetus' murder.

And yes, my mantra better applies to sex than abortion. Didn't think that one out...

[scythe]

the baby has been seriously abused while in the womb (FAS, drugs, etc),

So basically, you're for legal abortion, you just require the mother to drink a lot beforehand?

[yungerkid]

I am quite pro-choice. I can't see the excuse for forcing people to endure pain on so many levels when there is a procedure available to fix it; if there is more pain having a child than not having a child, then abortion should not be illegal, and I don't see how one could have more pain without a child. They would miss things, yes, but why are they considering abortion if they are afraid of missing all that? Either way, abortion is a person's choice, like all other operations. I also think that the added benefit of having society slimmed down a bit would be a double-pop.

[SkyPanda]

The little tadpole thing, in my eyes, fits the bill for both "being alive" and "being human". This is the position taken by moist pro-lifers.
However, I don't feel this translates into a good argument against abortion. A fetus should share the same rights as a grown human in the same way that a sperm does, which is not at all. It is the dissimilarities between a fetus and a developed human that make it absurd to treat them the same. A fetus cannot think, cannot feel pain, cannot feel emotion, and has no self-awareness.
I acknowledge that many pro-lifers put a value on human life regardless of the form that life takes, which is admirable, but I strongly believe that this simplistic view invariably hurts the other relevant person, the woman. To grant rights to a thing which is barely living, and favour these rights over the rights of a grown, living, woman seems ridiculous and cruel.

This isn't the only reason I support abortion, just a counter to the "fetus=human, killing it=bad" argument.

[capt_weasle]

I am against abortion except for when there are complications, and only the zygote/embryo/fetus/baby or the mother can be saved.

The ~98% of women who treat abortion as nothing more than a mere convenience just seems wrong.

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

Pro-Lifers:
You realize that there are human beings who actually have memories and a grasp on reality who undergo severe physical and psychological torture all around the world, don't you?
Priorities, people.

[blue_tetris]

Yes. Priorities!

Don't worry about the crime rate. Don't worry about doing your homework. There are people starving in Africa.

[jinxed_07]

Well, I say we stop telling our kids that sex is necessary for happiness. :/

yes. Yes!
Pro-life
How would YOU like to be aborted?
And how is it, if you kill a pregnant woman, you are charged with double murder, but abortion, doing the same minus the pregnant women, is legal. v_v tsk tsk

I am against abortion except for when there are complications, and only the zygote/embryo/fetus/baby or the mother can be saved.

The ~98% of women who treat abortion as nothing more than a mere convenience just seems wrong.

Same.

and

a fetus IS NOT ALIVE, THEREFORE CANNOT BE KILLED
a fetus WILL NOT HOLD A GRUDGE
a fetus WILL FORGIVE
a fetus WILL FORGET

nah, the mother just can't drink alcohol, eat unhealthy, and she gives the baby nutrients and takes it's waste for NO reason.[/sarcasism]
Tell me shenanigan, how do you define alive?

A fetus should share the same rights as a grown human in the same way that a sperm does, which is not at all.

A fetus has a 'good' potential to be a human while the sperm by itself has none.

And I am even pro-life even if it is rape, etc. Adoption, anyone? Same with under-age sex.

[SlappyMcGee]

I'm not sure pro-lifers understand the argument here. I hate to make a generalization, but most of the people who are pro-life are also complaining about jobs and higher taxes. Well, guess what? Not only does adding a new person to the world mean a new worker, desperately seeking the means to survive, but we have a mother who probably can't afford to take care of the child and is going to have to rely on more expensive government run programs. Let's put that aside and look at it in another way; you've also made this woman completely fucking miserable. She feels like shit because she brought a life into the world, and she isn't even able to care for it. Do you know how valuable a life is? You guys have been saying that these fetii are just as valuable as a regular life, so I hope you realize that you are effectively ruined one while at the same time making everybody in the country pay for the new life.

[Atilla]

How would YOU like to be aborted?

Irrelevant. As a fully-developed adult, I can actually like or dislike things. Embryos in the early stages of development don't even have a nervous system, so I'm pretty sure they can't feel bad about it.

And I am even pro-life even if it is rape, etc. Adoption, anyone? Same with under-age sex.

Is it not enough the woman suffers through rape? Does she have to have it rubbed in her face every day for nine months, take time off work because she's pregnant, go through the pain of birth (not to mention morning sickness and all the other inconveniences of pregnancy), and possibly suffer long-term medical problems and disfigurement as a result of the birth? And even the (slight) risk of death which accompanies any birth?

Plus, it's absolutely horrible that you're comparing rape with consensual teen sex.

[otters]

As far as I recall, my original argument on this topic was that a fetus is essentially a living person (a "potential" person, it might've been), while a sperm is not. I just recently actually realized the distinction, though. Both a sperm and a fetus are a potential person; however, a fetus will become a normal thinking person if not interrupted in some way in its development, whereas a sperm has to be connected to an egg somehow or other to create a person; you can't make a kid just by sitting there (unless you're Shmi Skywalker).

Of course, I doubt these arguments are relevant anymore. Just wanted to clear it up.

[Radium]

Just like my opinions about God, the correct answer about abortion seems overwhelmingly obvious. why would you /NOT/ use a modern technology? that's fucking stupid.

[blue_tetris]

As far as I recall, my original argument on this topic was that a fetus is essentially a living person (a "potential" person, it might've been), while a sperm is not. I just recently actually realized the distinction, though. Both a sperm and a fetus are a potential person; however, a fetus will become a normal thinking person if not interrupted in some way in its development,

It's a weird distinction. I mean, a sperm will become a person, too, if you use it correctly and don't mess things up. When used properly, both sperm and fetus will create a new human. Hell, even the egg should create a new human if you're having sex as much as the human animal was intended to. Pop a baby out? Don't wait 28 days and waste an egg! Bone some more!

Fact of the matter is, potentiality is a pretty tough concept to nail down when it comes to life. Normal smart-people science can't even define exactly when and how specific life originates; expecting Christian science (ha!) to define it in a way that is absolute is a bit much.

I guess the point I'm trying to make, ladies, is... have sex with me. If you don't, you're murdering potential babies. When I ask "Hey, what's your number?" and you say "Fuck off.", what you're really aborting is a futurebaby, with jetpacks. I just may bring my picket signs of mutilated, botched abortions to bars from now on, to help enforce the point. While I'm at it, picket signs of botched circumcisions and botched government-funded institutions, to further instate my beliefs.

[SkyPanda]

I guess the point I'm trying to make, ladies, is... have sex with me. If you don't, you're murdering potential babies. When I ask "Hey, what's your number?" and you say "Fuck off.", what you're really aborting is a futurebaby, with jetpacks. I just may bring my picket signs of mutilated, botched abortions to bars from now on, to help enforce the point. While I'm at it, picket signs of botched circumcisions and botched government-funded institutions, to further instate my beliefs.

Haha, I like this and will remember it always, or at least until I get so old that my brain works less than it does now. QFE.

A fetus has a 'good' potential to be a human while the sperm by itself has none.

I think you mean "good potential to be born". I've already said that I believe the fetus is human. It has human DNA and it is the offspring of two humans, therefore it is human. Anyway, so the fetus has the potential to be born. So what? I don't think that this is important or meaningful, compared to some other potentials we could look at.
The woman has the potential to have her life ruined. The man has the potential to have his life ruined. The woman has the potential to suffer through nine months of pain, discomfort, and stress. The woman has the potential to die and it would not be a risk she took voluntarily. It's a risk she would have to take because people like you took away her choices and rights.

And how is it, if you kill a pregnant woman, you are charged with double murder, but abortion, doing the same minus the pregnant women, is legal. v_v tsk tsk

If you kill the woman's unborn child without her consent, you will be charged with murder.

And I am even pro-life even if it is rape, etc. Adoption, anyone?

Unfortunately, the brevity of this argument demonstrates the lack of compassion and humanity that is typical of the anti-abortion crowd.
Furthermore, adoption is solution that comes with it's own problems, such as the welfare of the child, and it is a solution that comes much too late for the woman. As Atilla talked about, there's nine months between the rape and the adoption.

[otters]

I guess the point I'm trying to make, ladies, is... have sex with me. If you don't, you're murdering potential babies. When I ask "Hey, what's your number?" and you say "Fuck off.", what you're really aborting is a futurebaby, with jetpacks.

Erm, no, you're still missing the point. What's a sperm going to do if you, instead of having sex with your girlfriend, sit there and watch [some sort of generic TV show]? Nothing. It's not going to slide out of your penis, along the floor, up her leg, and inseminate her, is it? Unlikely. Whereas a fetus—whether you both watch TV or not—is going to be a baby in a few months, and she'll give birth, and it's all your fault for not wearing a condom.

To sum up my point:
Fetus => inactivity => baby
Sperm => inactivity =>