Genre-bashing (?)

[Tanner]

But rap metal? Yeah, that's a pretty well defined genre, it's small, and if you don't like fast lyrics and loud guitars, rap metal is not for you.

I really question that it's well-defined and small enough to be comprehensively understood, though. The difference between Rage Against The Machine and Limp Bizkit is immense. Not to say that there aren't notable similarities but if two giants in the genre can be so different, how can we expect the less well-known artists not to fluctuate even more? All this isn't to say that, for example, John Oswald couldn't be considered an expert in Plunderphonics or that, with access to the records, a person couldn't conceivably listen to all of the Ghettotech music ever produced but most genres (and certainly all genres with even one foot in the mainstream) are simply too large and convoluted to be fully synthesized into a coherent whole and evaluated by one person.

Like, for instance, I think it's pretty impossible for somebody to not like rock, because rock is such a generic term, it embodies almost all of the music that's come since.

But you don't like all rock, do you? It's sensationalist and, frankly, untrue to say that you like or dislike rock. It's too meta; too macro. That sentence can't mean anything.

What's "properly educated" in the context anyway?

You need to have an unquestionable grasp on the source material.

[SlappyMcGee]

RATM and LB are two very different bands that have similarities, by your own admission (although I've never heard the former be called rap metal). But do you not think there could be people out there who hate the band for their similarities? There are certain attributes that need to be universal to a band belonging to a genre because otherwise it isn't a genre. The more bands that fall under a genre, the less meaningful that genre becomes. Like, look at The Beatles and Limp Bizkit. These are both ostensibly pop/rock bands, if we look at the broader range of genres, but nobody would confuse The Beatles and the Limp Bizkit because they are remarkably different. If I gave you a box that said nu-metal and a box that said Psychedlic Pop, you would not take long to categorize the two (although the beatles are tricky because their career changes so often, that's besides the point here.)

Point being, a genre like nu-metal marks a distinction from the Beatles. The Beatles will not be considered nu-metal. Nu-metal has characteristics that a Beatlemaniac could be abhorred by. Because genres have characteristics. When you compared RATM and Limp Bizkit, I thought, well, that's quite a stretch, but not because of what a broad genre that rap rock is, but rather because I don't think RATM embodies a lot of what the genre of rap rock. I could see somebody saying, "I don't like the vocal style in rap rock but I love Rage against the Machine."

When I brought up The Clash and Blondie before, I was trying to show how, in spite of the fact that New Wave and Punk are from wildly different backgrounds, they cover very similar ground musically. I'm not saying you have to like both, or that you can possibly like all of the selections of a genre, because a genre is too wide to know all of it, but I think that if you don't like an element inherent to a genre, you are not going to like the genre.

Genres aren't really anything, they're just fictional containers invented as a tool to market music and expand our taste. But I think that some of these containers are specific enough to write off. If you look at others, they are, in fact, too broad. But to say you don't like noise rock without hearing all of it? I think that's pretty reasonable.

[a happy song]

What's "properly educated" in the context anyway?

You need to have an unquestionable grasp on the source material.

It was rhetorical leading onto my further points. You can discuss the actual content of my post. you know?

Specifically this aspect:

I can tell you in all sincerity, I've heard enough from the genre to be able to write it off knowing that there's not going to be enough differentiation from the core of it to satisfy my tastes.

When I brought up The Clash and Blondie before, I was trying to show how, in spite of the fact that New Wave and Punk are from wildly different backgrounds, they cover very similar ground musically. I'm not saying you have to like both, or that you can possibly like all of the selections of a genre, because a genre is too wide to know all of it, but I think that if you don't like an element inherent to a genre, you are not going to like the genre.

Some genres are just too broad (rock, pop, indie) but the more specific genres (such as the ones I mentioned: Jungle, pop RnB, Happy Hardcore) are all linked by enough shared traits that you'll know whether you like an entire genre or not after a certain amount of research into it.

[Ianinja]

I don't like Metallica, it doesn't look like many people in this thread do but I bet you cant give at least 6 musical reasons why you DO NOT like Metallica.

(try it :/ I had it for my music homework)

:(

[SlappyMcGee]

I don't like Metallica, it doesn't look like many people in this thread do but I bet you cant give at least 6 musical reasons why you DO NOT like Metallica.

(try it :/ I had it for my music homework)

:(

Well, I like Metallica:

1) Their music has never been groundbreaking.
2) The loud guitars are irritating.
3) The complete absence of bass on all post-Burton albums.
4) James Hetfield does not know how to sing.
5) Those wanky guitar solos are technically impressive but unnecessary.
6) The lyrics are dumb.

But I love Metallica.

[otters]

Stuff I agree with

Guff.

[SlappyMcGee]

Perfectly reasonable retort.

[a happy song]

I see no issue with Slappy's post...

*coughs*

*twiddles thumbs*

[SlappyMcGee]

I see no issue with Slappy's post...

*coughs*

*twiddles thumbs*

You silly global mod.

[Mute Monk]

Is this sort of generalization an acceptable opinion regarding a musical genre or should it be discouraged? Does it come from a lack of experience and uninformed judgment? (Certainly there's no quantitative threshold of experience needed to make an opinion about a style of music)

First question: Everyone is welcome to an opinion. Just because Lenny's opinion disagree's with those of other people doesn't mean his should be "discouraged". In fact, introducing opposing opinion almost always forces those being opposed to consider other viewpoints and become more open minded. Granted, Lenny's comments aren't likely to inspire such openmindedness due to their blunt, succinct nature, but that's more because people here think with their egos and fingertips, not with their brain.

Second question: Likely, if Lenny doesn't like noise metal, he doesn't have much experience with it. However, that shouldn't (and obviously doesn't) stop him from forming and expressing his opinions on the subject. We all have opinions on subjects about which we are uninformed. Conversely, each of us is informed on relatively few topics (compared to the total number of topics available to be informed about).

So, to conclude: Lenny is (likely) uninformed and inexperienced with noise metal. But that should not (nor does it) stop him from expressing his opinions on the subject.

An aside:
Slappy, I was kind of surprised at your earlier post:

... or because you're functionally retarded ... the hands of somebody so gorram dumb? ...

Light banter or insults made in fun are cool, but seriously (at least, your comment seemed serious) calling someone "gorram dumb" or "functionally retarded" just because you don't like their opinion is pretty low.
End aside.

As for myself, I try at all costs to avoid direct "genre bashing"; that is, actively insulting a genre based on qualities it may have or lack. However, there are certainly areas of HMV I will deliberately not frequent, simply based on the assumption that I will not like most of the music in those sections. Despite this, I tend to view myself as relatively open-minded when it comes to music...my collection goes from Noah and the Whale to SOAD to Basshunter to Eminem to Weezer.

Again, to conclude: Do I dislike certain types of music? Yes. Do I make sweeping statements about the quality of any given genre? I try not to. Do I, however, find certain genres (or, much more commonly, certain bands) not to my liking? Yes. But I don't begrudge anyone of their opinions on those genres/bands or their respective talent or musical value.

[Tanner]

Second question: Likely, if Lenny doesn't like noise metal, he doesn't have much experience with it. However, that shouldn't (and obviously doesn't) stop him from forming and expressing his opinions on the subject. We all have opinions on subjects about which we are uninformed. Conversely, each of us is informed on relatively few topics (compared to the total number of topics available to be informed about).

Your argument amounts to saying "Everyone's doing it!" which is a really bad reason for doing anything.

[Mute Monk]

Second question: Likely, if Lenny doesn't like noise metal, he doesn't have much experience with it. However, that shouldn't (and obviously doesn't) stop him from forming and expressing his opinions on the subject. We all have opinions on subjects about which we are uninformed. Conversely, each of us is informed on relatively few topics (compared to the total number of topics available to be informed about).

Your argument amounts to saying "Everyone's doing it!" which is a really bad reason for doing anything.

Huh? No, I was simply saying that, since everyone forms and expresses opinions, Lenny has every right to do so himself, regardless of his level of expertise on the subject.

[Kablizzy]

that's more because people here think with their egos and fingertips, not with their brain.

No, YOU'RE gay.

Mod Edit: Admin has been warned for use of derogatory language in a non-ironic manner.

[Tanner]

Your argument amounts to saying "Everyone's doing it!" which is a really bad reason for doing anything.

Huh? No, I was simply saying that, since everyone forms and expresses opinions, Lenny has every right to do so himself, regardless of his level of expertise on the subject.

"[...] since everyone forms and expresses opinions, Lenny has every right to do so himself [...]"

How is this not you saying "Everyone's doing it?"

[Mute Monk]

Your argument amounts to saying "Everyone's doing it!" which is a really bad reason for doing anything.

Huh? No, I was simply saying that, since everyone forms and expresses opinions, Lenny has every right to do so himself, regardless of his level of expertise on the subject.

"[...] since everyone forms and expresses opinions, Lenny has every right to do so himself [...]"

How is this not you saying "Everyone's doing it?"

...This is me saying "Since nobody else seems to be blamed for it, how can we blame him?". Granted, I am saying everyone's doing it, but not as a reason why Lenny should do it, but as a reason why (if he does do it) we really can't blame him for it.

[SlappyMcGee]

Nobody is blaming Lenny. We are debating whether or not you should be allowed to write off a genre of music. :/

[Ianinja]

Rap + Metal = TIN FOIL


AHAHAHAHHHAA I R GENUIS

[Tanner]

Rap + Metal = TIN FOIL


AHAHAHAHHHAA I R GENUIS

You revived a thread that had been dead for a month for that? You're awful.

[SlappyMcGee]

Rap + Metal = TIN FOIL


AHAHAHAHHHAA I R GENUIS

Okay, quick poll: Next three posts vote on whether or not laninja becomes admin. GETS BANNED FOREVER - YAHOOZY

[Spawn of Yanni]

Aye!

[T3chno]

I hereby second the nomination for adminicy.

[Skyling]

It's unanimous!

[SlappyMcGee]

Then the will of the people be done!

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

I suppose that may as well have been a banning, because I don't have enough faith in his intelligence to think he'll figure out what happened.

[Ianinja]

2 words.

Fuck you guys.

That was three words.

I don't care.

LEAVE MY NAME AS IT IS!!! IT'S PRETTY!!!!
:p

And what the Jesus??