GOD or SATAN?
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I'd like to call bullshit on Tsukatu a little bit right here, if I may, no matter how attractive he is. C.S. Lewis was a fucking nutcase, and that quote emphasizes that more than anything. It's possible to earn moral lessons from the fictional character of Jesus without believing that he was a real demigod. Consider the God of the Bible to be an elaborate metaphor for our conscience, perhaps the tumultuous evil caused by Satan to be the trickiness of liberty and the onset of adolescence. Jesus is the promise of the perfect life and every day problems will always get in the way of that shit. The crucification of Jesus for our sins is an embodiment of the death of the American Dream, the moral compromise of modern life. or some shit. But what I'm saying is, is that the Bible doesn't have to be true to be valuable from a moral standpoint. It sits solidly on the shelf next to The Firm and Lolita and The Idiot of books that are fictional and somewhat well written and can help influence our lives, help us to have a better understanding of our perception of the human condition.
Which isn't to say that squibbles or Nu-Christians are right, because they aren't treating it like Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas or Neuromancer; they're treating it as a reference point, as if, Just because science has proven he wasn't really a God and the whole thing was made up by some crazy-pissed Romans doesn't mean that every bit of moral advice in there isn't true. That's just the thing; morality =/= true, especially not in the case of a millenia old book. If you can take a lesson from the book of God, that's great, and I don't think that, like C.S. Lewis, believing that Jesus wasn't the son of God means that everything Jesus said was necessarily the work of the great Satan. (Is that McDonalds or America this week?) But take it all with the grain of salt and don't assign the term religion to it. To believe that The Bible was true and to not be a practicing Christian is like agreeing to jump off a plank but not until demanding there be a pool of sharks at the end of the plank first. It is possible to be moral without having God on your shoulder, and it takes some soul-searching and intelligence.
Which isn't to say that squibbles or Nu-Christians are right, because they aren't treating it like Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas or Neuromancer; they're treating it as a reference point, as if, Just because science has proven he wasn't really a God and the whole thing was made up by some crazy-pissed Romans doesn't mean that every bit of moral advice in there isn't true. That's just the thing; morality =/= true, especially not in the case of a millenia old book. If you can take a lesson from the book of God, that's great, and I don't think that, like C.S. Lewis, believing that Jesus wasn't the son of God means that everything Jesus said was necessarily the work of the great Satan. (Is that McDonalds or America this week?) But take it all with the grain of salt and don't assign the term religion to it. To believe that The Bible was true and to not be a practicing Christian is like agreeing to jump off a plank but not until demanding there be a pool of sharks at the end of the plank first. It is possible to be moral without having God on your shoulder, and it takes some soul-searching and intelligence.
Loathes
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If the Bible inspires you to develop your own moral code that has little resemblance to Christian doctrine, then good for you. That also what squibbles appears to be claiming he did. The issue I took with that is that he called himself a Christian because of it. This would be as ridiculous as me seeing Fronchmen womanize, incorporating it into my own behaviors with the fullest intention to avoid emulating the rest of their deficiencies, but calling myself Fronch just because I stole one of their behaviorisms out of context.SlappyMcGee wrote:I'd like to call bullshit on Tsukatu a little bit right here, if I may, no matter how attractive he is. C.S. Lewis was a fucking nutcase, and that quote emphasizes that more than anything. It's possible to earn moral lessons from the fictional character of Jesus without believing that he was a real demigod. Consider the God of the Bible to be an elaborate metaphor for our conscience, perhaps the tumultuous evil caused by Satan to be the trickiness of liberty and the onset of adolescence. Jesus is the promise of the perfect life and every day problems will always get in the way of that shit. The crucification of Jesus for our sins is an embodiment of the death of the American Dream, the moral compromise of modern life. or some shit. But what I'm saying is, is that the Bible doesn't have to be true to be valuable from a moral standpoint. It sits solidly on the shelf next to The Firm and Lolita and The Idiot of books that are fictional and somewhat well written and can help influence our lives, help us to have a better understanding of our perception of the human condition.
Also, Jesus was an asshole.
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]


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Actually, it just so happens that that's what you convinced me I needed to change. The main reason why I called myself a Christian was because I recognised that that was the religion that I shared the most with, so I passed it off as a reinterpretation. Retrospectively, it's way too distinct for me to do that, and I can assure you I won't again.Tsukatu wrote:The issue I took with that is that he called himself a Christian because of it.
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Tsukatu, I would've thought you'd read God Is Not Great.Tsukatu wrote: C.S. Lewis, for one. And I happen to agree with him.
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
the dusk the dawn the earth the sea
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Nah, I chose C.S. Lewis as my one and only author I would ever read, ever. I'd love to be able to read some Hitchens, but unfortunately, I'm stuck and have to live with it.flagmyidol wrote:Tsukatu, I would've thought you'd read God Is Not Great.Tsukatu wrote: C.S. Lewis, for one. And I happen to agree with him.
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]


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Actually I would have to pick my own religion...Keatonism :)
Waay better.
Waay better.

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So I'll take that as a no. Either that or you don't remember the bit about Lewis too well.Tsukatu wrote:Nah, I chose C.S. Lewis as my one and only author I would ever read, ever. I'd love to be able to read some Hitchens, but unfortunately, I'm stuck and have to live with it.flagmyidol wrote:Tsukatu, I would've thought you'd read God Is Not Great.Tsukatu wrote: C.S. Lewis, for one. And I happen to agree with him.
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
the dusk the dawn the earth the sea
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That isn't even necessary, let alone tasteful, but then again it reminds me you're actually a robot.Tsukatu wrote:Nah, I chose C.S. Lewis as my one and only author I would ever read, ever. I'd love to be able to read some Hitchens, but unfortunately, I'm stuck and have to live with it.flagmyidol wrote:Tsukatu, I would've thought you'd read God Is Not Great.

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Of course I've read god is not Great. My brother bought me a copy for my birthday.flagmyidol wrote:So I'll take that as a no. Either that or you don't remember the bit about Lewis too well.Tsukatu wrote:Nah, I chose C.S. Lewis as my one and only author I would ever read, ever. I'd love to be able to read some Hitchens, but unfortunately, I'm stuck and have to live with it.flagmyidol wrote:Tsukatu, I would've thought you'd read God Is Not Great.
I was just amused by your implication that reading C.S. Lewis and Hitchens was mutually exclusive for some reason.
"Ah, I see you're familiar with the works of C.S. Lewis. I would've thought you'd read god is not Great, instead."
I mean... couldn't I have read both?
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]


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That's not at all what I meant. I meant that you bring up, as a legitimate argument, the specific quote of Lewis that Hitchens deals with effectively.Tsukatu wrote: Of course I've read god is not Great. My brother bought me a copy for my birthday.
I was just amused by your implication that reading C.S. Lewis and Hitchens was mutually exclusive for some reason.
"Ah, I see you're familiar with the works of C.S. Lewis. I would've thought you'd read god is not Great, instead."
I mean... couldn't I have read both?
(I have also read both Mere Christianity and god is not Great, and despite being an atheist, I certainly enjoyed Lewis more.)
PS: About that original point, I agree that only idiots who are willing to overlook /a lot/ can construct a moral, non-theistic ideal from the Bible. However, a lot of people still do; I don't think Lewis minded them, per se, because he was a fundamentally good person. Hard for him to be bothered over people taking his religion and using it to do good. All he minded was the non-Fundamentalists, or whatever you may call them, who took Jesus as a teacher instead of a prophet.
the dusk the dawn the earth the sea
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I think C.S. Lewis comes so readily to my mind when I think of the asshole Jesus was because Lewis is a very influential Christian. This helps when talking to Christians because they don't have as biased a view of the source.
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]


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Whats with Tsukatu getting invlolved in heaps of this Religion shit?
Wait...it must be obvious, lul sorry.
Wait...it must be obvious, lul sorry.

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I'm interested in the subject?laninja wrote:Whats with Tsukatu getting invlolved in heaps of this Religion shit?
Wait...it must be obvious, lul sorry.
Why, what nonsense were you hinting at?
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]


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Tsukatu wrote:I'm interested in the subject?laninja wrote:Whats with Tsukatu getting invlolved in heaps of this Religion shit?
Wait...it must be obvious, lul sorry.
Why, what nonsense were you hinting at?
Satan would be interested in the subject of religion, I think.
Loathes
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So is this to be taken to another level of ridiculousness and renamed "GOD or TSUKATU?"
I like it, but I'm intimidated.
I like it, but I'm intimidated.
the dusk the dawn the earth the sea
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As would any other angel.SlappyMcGee wrote:Satan would be interested in the subject of religion, I think.Tsukatu wrote:I'm interested in the subject?laninja wrote:Whats with Tsukatu getting invlolved in heaps of this Religion shit?
Wait...it must be obvious, lul sorry.
Why, what nonsense were you hinting at?
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]


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tbh, Satan and God should just have a fight and get it over with.

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...they sorta did. Kiiiiiinda what Revelations is about.laninja wrote:tbh, Satan and God should just have a fight and get it over with.
This is quickly becoming tiresome.
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]


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I used to think the same thing, but not because i sympathized with him... because i want to see the world burn just as bad as he does. but this kind of thinking is silly and just plain stupid... as suki pointed out thoroughly.besides, lucifer would realize i symphatized for him (he was in god's shadow. he just wanted to be recognized and heard. stupid god has to take all the limelight), and make me his right hand man.
and with that comment a wave of forum nostalgia washed over me ^_^.To be fair, it's more like the Tsukatu of three or four years ago. "Metanet's only Satanic moderator" or something like that. And you're not autistic, so that's a plus.
and to answer your question: neither. i choose reincarnation.
eternity is a pretty long fucking time to be anywhere, whether it be eternal paradise or damnation.... and considering my idea of paradise involves several deadly sins i doubt heaven would allow it. hell sounds exactly like suki put it: the king of all prisons filled to the brim of the nastiest most evil souls that ever walked and died on this earth. sure i might make a friend or two, but i might be raped and killed over and over again by those same individuals for eternity... and ive had my fill of backstabbing friends.
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I choose TSUKATU because hes just cooler than god. i mean, cmon, look at how ridiculously attracive he is.flagmyidol wrote:So is this to be taken to another level of ridiculousness and renamed "GOD or TSUKATU?"
I like it, but I'm intimidated.
and anyway since i would help him take over the world nad stuff he would realize how i sympathised with him and make me his right hand man :DDD

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Who won?Tsukatu wrote:...they sorta did. Kiiiiiinda what Revelations is about.laninja wrote:tbh, Satan and God should just have a fight and get it over with.
This is quickly becoming tiresome.
And why can't God send us somewhere so the temptation of Satan cannot ingulf us so we turn away from the ways of Christ??
Maybe I should kill myself so I can ask God these questions...
Na that's stupid, I'll be waiting in a massive line for ages, imagine how many people would be doing the same thing...

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I heard that committing suicide was a sin, so you wouldn't go to heaven if you killed yourself. In my religion there is no hell. :)
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Aldaric wrote:I heard that committing suicide was a sin, so you wouldn't go to heaven if you killed yourself. In my religion there is no hell. :)
Huh.
T'est le meilleure camion dans mon livre des liberale CUBA, monsignor.
Loathes
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SlappyMcGee wrote:T'est le meilleure camion dans mon livre des liberale CUBA, monsignor.
...Google Translate wrote:Thee the best truck in my book of liberal Cuba, Monsignor.
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]


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DemonzLunchBreak wrote: The "humor" is unnecessary.
The 'seriousness' is unnecessary, f**cker.
KAAAABOOOOM!!!

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