Causality thing.
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You don't throw the lever, and railroad dude gets sliced into three equal pieces. Did you kill him?
Scenario 2: all of the above, and you tied him to the track.
Scenario 3: all of the above, including #2, and you built the cart as well.

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But yeah, flip the switch seeing that there are no given consequences for saving the guy's life.
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This. Too bad about the guy dying but if you hadn't happened to show up and watch he would've died just as much.SlappyMcGee wrote:No. Did you tie him to the track? Were you responsible for this contraption?
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The fuck is wrong with you guys?
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squibbles wrote:Wait, what? If a dude is about to die, and you have the power to save him, you save him. Especially if there are no adverse side effects from doing so!
The fuck is wrong with you guys?
And I would certainly do so. Do not confuse the issue. I would save somebody given the opportunity, however, I am not responsible if I do not. Otherwise, you are responsible for the deaths of hundreds by not giving any leisure money you possess to charities.
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Those were part of my scenario 2 and scenario 3. edited in.SlappyMcGee wrote:No. Did you tie him to the track? Were you responsible for this contraption?

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First one makes sense, but no to #3? I don't get it.LittleViking wrote:No yes no

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If we are, then I'm "no", "yes", "yes".
If scenario #3 only involves building the cart but not tying him to the track, then I'm "no", "yes", "no". I am not responsible for what people do with my cart after it is built.

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. . .
On the second hand, you would know that it was not your fault just because it was just going to happen anyway. I'm just going to quote here.
Free will is bullshit.

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Well played, Tunco.Tunco wrote:Free will is bullshit.
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Y'know, come to think of it, I'm having difficulty reconciling these two:incluye wrote:Well, alright. These weren't quite the answers I expected, but I can see your reasoning. In other words, you can directly save the dude, but you can't directly kill him.
- My failure to take constant action to help people isn't immoral. I am not responsible for other people's cruelty.
- If I see an unfortunate situation like this and it's easy for me to interfere to stop it, I'm a colossal dick if I don't.

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I just tried breaking down all four possibilities for this situation, but yeah, I got stuck on "immoral non-asshole". I was thinking in general that someone could be a nice person but simply not care about being a moral person, but in retrospect I think I was imagining an amoral person rather than an immoral person (the distinction being that an amoral person doesn't have a moral compass / is indifferent, whereas an immoral person actively does evil).incluye wrote:I'd say saving the dude is the moral thing to do, so I don't understand where the immoral non-asshole option comes in, unless you're talking about throwing some fat guy under the cart to stop it or something.
"Moral non-asshole", "moral asshole", and "immoral asshole" are obviously distinct in my mind, but I simply can't think of what an immoral non-asshole would be like. :\

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"Worse"?ghoulash wrote:Sidetrack: is amorality worse than immorality, or vice-versa?
moral: having a behavioral code which encourages good actions
immoral: having a behavioral code which encourages bad or "evil" actions
amoral: not having a behavioral code

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Or in season 2 of Breaking Bad? When Walt gives all his drug money to Jesse and his psychotic girlfriend, after which Jesse and girl do heroin to celebrate? Later on Walt breaks into Jesse's house again to tell him that he's sorry about something, only to discover that Jesse and his girlfriend are passed out and high on heroin. Then the girl starts to vomit only she isn't laying on her side so she begins to choke on her own vomit while Walt looks on. Walt could have saved her, but he needed the money that he gave them and he needed his business partner to not be blinded by some schmuck girlfriend who wanted the money to travel and do drugs. Basically Walt solved all his current problems in that episode by letting her die even though he had the means to save her.

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I'm pretty sure thats not how it works in European civil law countries, where there is a duty to rescue.SlappyMcGee wrote:however, I am not responsible if I do not. Otherwise, you are responsible for the deaths of hundreds by not giving any leisure money you possess to charities.
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Good Samaritan laws, which I presumed was where this topic would end up, are fucking bullshit.SkyPanda wrote:I'm pretty sure thats not how it works in European civil law countries, where there is a duty to rescue.SlappyMcGee wrote:however, I am not responsible if I do not. Otherwise, you are responsible for the deaths of hundreds by not giving any leisure money you possess to charities.
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