N v1.5 Poll: Small Changes

Talk about the classic version of Metanet Software's amazingly popular freeware platformer right here!

I think that making small adjustments for N v1.5 is:

A Good Idea
129
72%
A Bad Idea
44
24%
Don't Care
7
4%
 
Total votes: 180

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Postby EddyMataGallos » 2010.06.03 (13:07)

Lose all replays? Fix bugs? Change physics? Lose years of playing and ultraplayed highscore leaderboards and start from the beggining?
Bad idea
Just more episodes and levels and some improvements would have been more than enough for a new N version
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About me & Stats (Spoiler)

Hi, im Eddy, a Spanish highscorer and current Grandmaster of N. I've been playing N since 2006, I beat it on the 8th September 2008, and NReality later too. Started intermittently highscoring Metanet in 2010, although serious highscoring started in late 2011.

Current Stats
• Completed N on 8th Sept. 2008
• Completed NReality on 24th Dec. 2010
0th Place on Metanet 0th Rankings with 443 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Top20 Rankings with 599 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Top10 Rankings with 599 Scores.
1st Place on Metanet Top5 Rankings with 595 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Level 0th Rankings with 361 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Episode 0th Rankings with 82 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Total Level Score: 72142.900 (20:02:22.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Episode Score: 35669.900 (09:54:29.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Point Rankings with 11669 Points.
0th Place in NReality 0th Rankings with 235 0ths.
0th Place for a grand total of 676 Total 0ths.
• Winner of some contests (BUST, 100, 9000, Bounty Hunters, SOAST) and of some rounds of some contests (ROPP, NErratic, Red Ball, NReality Team Arena)

{Info as of 01/Feb/2015} The info may be outdated.

Achievements
• 6th highscorer to reach 100 Metanet 0ths
• 4th highscorer to reach 200 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 300 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 400 Metanet 0ths
• 8th ever Grandmaster
• 2nd* highscorer to reach 599 top-20 Scores
• 1st highscorer to reach 599 top-10 Scores
• 10th highscorer to reach 70k Level Score
• 5th highscorer to reach 71k Level Score
• 2nd highscorer to reach 71.5k Level Score
• 1st highscorer to reach 72k Level Score

Relevant Dates
• First 0th: 31-3 on 04/Oct/10
• Reached 100 Metanet 0ths on 25/Feb/12
• Reached 200 Metanet 0ths on 30/Sep/12
• Reached 300 Metanet 0ths on 16/Mar/13
• Reached 400 Metanet 0ths on 04/Sept/14
• Reached highest amount of 0ths on Jan/2013
• Became the Grandmaster on 12/Apr/2012
• Reached 70k Level Score on 25/Dec/11
• Reached 71k Level Score on 13/Jan/11
• Reached 71.5k Level Score on 01/Aug/12
• Reached 72k Level Score on 04/Jul/14
• Completed N 1.4 on 08/Sept/08
• Completed NReality on 24/Dec/10
• Reached 100 NReality 0ths on Oct/2011
• Reached 200 NReality 0ths on Nov/2011
• Reached 100 Top-20 Scores on Aug/10
• Reached 200 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 300 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 400 Top-20 Scores on Dec/11
• Reached 500 Top-20 Scores on Jan/12
• Reached 599 Top-20 Scores on 04/Apr/12
• Reached 599 Top-10 Scores on 18/Nov/12

Deds & Images (Spoiler)

Thanks to ska for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to BluePretzel for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to da_guru for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this full episode to me!: 00-0 00-100-2 00-3 00-4
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this mappack to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to VODKALOVER for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to runningninja for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to trance for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to llabesab for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to the23 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Traveleravi for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to 123leonidas321 for dedicating this map to me
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Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Daggafork for dedicating this map to me
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Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to RandomDigits/SpartaX18 for dedicating this map to me
Sorry if Im missing any ded.

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Postby remm » 2010.06.03 (13:18)

It is simply not worth it to do small changes to the physics and the game just to make it play differently, so the coding is more perfect. You risk losing so much.
There has been too much time and effort put into the highscores over the recent half decade, altering the playability of our runs will be like screwing us over. Wait for N2.0 for something so drastic as that and maybe we might be more forgiving.

The little things you call glitches like the stuttering up slopes or the "random" chainguns are all part of the game, they make N unique, causing so much to learn. I'm sure jumping off the killing side of a thwump was never intended, but the fact is it is possible to do, which is just awesome.

For the small changes, do things which won't alter the current demos, or don't do them at all.

EDIT: oh yeah, If you're going to change everything around and lose the thousands of runs, you'd need to replace the old game's levels entirely.
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Postby Raif » 2010.06.03 (13:21)

I am against changing anything in the physics engine of N. Not even the stuttering up slope bug (I never took that to be a bug anyway). Zap drones and chainguns aren't really random anyway and don't need to be changed. None of the bugs need to be removed as well.
We just need more features such as speedrun mode, nmaps.net intergration and better Level Editor. And anti-cheat/anti-hack protection. Or maybe even in-game chat.

Edit:
What would be the fun in N if you couldn't do things like this?

Or this

Or even this:

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Postby a happy song » 2010.06.03 (13:32)

romaniac wrote:It is simply not worth it to do small changes to the physics and the game just to make it play differently, so the coding is more perfect. You risk losing so much.
There has been too much time and effort put into the highscores over the recent half decade, altering the playability of our runs will be like screwing us over. Wait for N2.0 for something so drastic as that and maybe we might be more forgiving.

The little things you call glitches like the stuttering up slopes or the "random" chainguns are all part of the game, they make N unique, causing so much to learn. I'm sure jumping off the killing side of a thwump was never intended, but the fact is it is possible to do, which is just awesome.

For the small changes, do things which won't alter the current demos, or don't do them at all.

EDIT: oh yeah, If you're going to change everything around and lose the thousands of runs, you'd need to replace the old game's levels entirely.
ALL worry negated if they include a classic v.4 mode. If they can do this, then there's absolutely no reason to oppose the changes.
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Postby Raif » 2010.06.03 (13:35)

a happy song wrote: ALL worry negated if they include a classic v.4 mode. If they can do this, then there's absolutely no reason to oppose the changes.
So we are going to be having TWO scoreboards, one for 1.4 and one for 1.5?

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Postby el_devo. » 2010.06.03 (13:38)

This is a consolidation of recent irc posts on the n-highscores channel. I post this to represent some of the many concerns we(The Players) have with physics edits for Nv1.5.

<van> those small adjustments are a terrible idea
<remaniac> It would make it a whole new game
<van> and ruining the existing runs and demos is the worst thing
<Raif> which why i voted no :D
<van> i guess we all voted no
<van> but someone who cares only about maps has no point in doing so
<van> that's the problem because there are more mappers than players
<L3X> yeah, small changes makes all the old highscores obselete... :/
<remaniac> I believe all the highscorers will vote no, but there are more mappers that would vote yes
<remaniac> because it will make it easier to play

<van> i love the random parts
<van> like you don't know if the chaingun shots you or not, it's part of the game
<L3X> chainguns arent really random anyway, if you do the same thing twice, it will shoot in exactly the same place. :P

<van> i think that they really need to just ADD features, like in-game chat, speedrun, cheat-protection etc
<el_devo> That would make the experience much more enjoyable

<L3X> just a matter of running the level enough to get used to it. and yeah, zap drones arent random at all. S:
<van> it's not like in 1 demo you die and in other you live...
<Raif> zap drones just come if they are in between grid lines, that isn't random


<L3X> allot of the small things people would consider flaws or bugs add dynamics to the gameplay, taking that away would be... eww
<L3X> but yeah, people have spent allot of time getting oh so many insane runs on the current levels, dont make it all obselete by changing the way stuff works and breaking all the demo's.
<remaniac> thats it pretty much

<el_devo> The thing is, for them to make any fundamental physics changes at all that are worthwhile, they ruin all current demos

<el_devo> I would just make some edits, then release as Nv2.0

<Raif>When is this collision bug happen anyway?
<remaniac> if you're trying to perp jump at high speeds
<van> there are faster ways to get down than changing direction almost always
<remaniac> it's the only time it really comes into play
<L3X> lol van, you've never stuttered when doing a reverse jump off a slope? xD
<el_devo> It happens when you perp jump going fast
<el_devo> All the time
<van> what does 'stuttered' mean?
<remaniac> like stumble
<el_devo> Dust comes up and you can't jump on all the frames
<Raif> it almost never happens to me :/
<van> i guess it happened to me, but i just take it that i messed the perp jump
<van> there is no point in making it easier

<el_devo> imo, if they are going to change it, then it needs to be v2.0
<el_devo> and have new drones, items, doors, etc.
<van> YEA

<van> well i think that the physics model should be the same
<el_devo> definitely
<Raif> you can add enimies without messing with the physics of the game :/
<van> just add speedrun, chat, more levels, numa maps, cheat protection, etc
<el_devo> small bugs arent worth changing
<el_devo> We've gotten used to them
<van> yea and without breaking the demos, raif, too
<van> just the old levels would be without new enemies

<el_devo> If they were updating N every 6 months or something then they could overhaul the physics, but we are too used to the current physics after using them for years

<van> pheidi: "I guess this sorta answers the question I posed over in the actual v1.5 thread about backwards compatibility. I think a lot of players are going to want backwards compatibility, so if the small changes come at the expense of this, it might as well be v2.0. Since v1.5 is the goal, I'd be against changing the physics and glitches. "

<van> as i'm reading, people really have problems with that stuttering
<van> i never considered it a bug...
<Raif> i dont :/
<el_devo> Only the new players have a serious problem I would think
<van> yea
<Raif> no one ever complains about it in here
<el_devo> it happens to me, but it doesn't matter
<remaniac> i have only noticed it as a bug because they mentioned it to be so
<van> you can avoid it with being good and with timing, no point removing it

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Postby remm » 2010.06.03 (13:42)

a happy song wrote:
romaniac wrote:It is simply not worth it to do small changes to the physics and the game just to make it play differently, so the coding is more perfect. You risk losing so much.
There has been too much time and effort put into the highscores over the recent half decade, altering the playability of our runs will be like screwing us over. Wait for N2.0 for something so drastic as that and maybe we might be more forgiving.

The little things you call glitches like the stuttering up slopes or the "random" chainguns are all part of the game, they make N unique, causing so much to learn. I'm sure jumping off the killing side of a thwump was never intended, but the fact is it is possible to do, which is just awesome.

For the small changes, do things which won't alter the current demos, or don't do them at all.

EDIT: oh yeah, If you're going to change everything around and lose the thousands of runs, you'd need to replace the old game's levels entirely.
ALL worry negated if they include a classic v.4 mode. If they can do this, then there's absolutely no reason to oppose the changes.
So you're suggesting we get TWO scoreboards?
The old version of the game would fade into obscurity. I don't want to come across like and old man moaning about the good old days, but I believe that the current game as we know it will cease to be played, other than for posterity.
I just don't think all the changes that will alter the way we play are worth it.
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Postby a happy song » 2010.06.03 (13:46)

romaniac wrote:
a happy song wrote:
romaniac wrote:It is simply not worth it to do small changes to the physics and the game just to make it play differently, so the coding is more perfect. You risk losing so much.
There has been too much time and effort put into the highscores over the recent half decade, altering the playability of our runs will be like screwing us over. Wait for N2.0 for something so drastic as that and maybe we might be more forgiving.

The little things you call glitches like the stuttering up slopes or the "random" chainguns are all part of the game, they make N unique, causing so much to learn. I'm sure jumping off the killing side of a thwump was never intended, but the fact is it is possible to do, which is just awesome.

For the small changes, do things which won't alter the current demos, or don't do them at all.

EDIT: oh yeah, If you're going to change everything around and lose the thousands of runs, you'd need to replace the old game's levels entirely.
ALL worry negated if they include a classic v.4 mode. If they can do this, then there's absolutely no reason to oppose the changes.
So you're suggesting we get TWO scoreboards?
The old version of the game would fade into obscurity. I don't want to come across like and old man moaning about the good old days, but I believe that the current game as we know it will cease to be played, other than for posterity.
I just don't think all the changes that will alter the way we play are worth it.
I doubt very much that the high scorers would migrate, you all prefer the glitches as they add nuance to play.

Therefore two boards would probably do very little and both would remain as active as people would be interested in the new version too.

Eventually, however, I think it's pretty safe to say that V.4 would end up being the most used for high-scoring still.

And as high-scoring is not the be-all-and-end-all of n, if shouldn't be used to trump other aspects entirely.
el_devo wrote:<remaniac> I believe all the highscorers will vote no, but there are more mappers that would vote yes
<remaniac> because it will make it easier to play
I'm a mapper who enjoys playing userlevels. I want the glitches retained, I love bb physics and corner jumps etc.., but I'd also /love/ to play a game without certain enemy bugs.
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Postby lord_day » 2010.06.03 (14:10)

atob, I think it would be a huge shame if all the glitches were removed. Things like corner jumps and bounceblocks are an intergral part of the game as we currently play it. That is why I think if changes were to be made they have to be chosen selectively. For example, I don't think anyone minds if the stuttering on curved slopes is removed. But to take away the two examples I mentioned earlier, which aren't even glitches as far as I can see but might be removed if the physics engine was cleaned up, would really remove from the flexibility of the ninja as he moves around levels.
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Postby Raif » 2010.06.03 (14:22)

lord_day wrote:For example, I don't think anyone minds if the stuttering on curved slopes is removed.
I don't think even that should be removed. It isn't even that annoying, you get used to it once you start playing the game. Infact I never even thought about it until I saw it mentioned here today.

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Postby a happy song » 2010.06.03 (14:30)

lord_day wrote:atob, I think it would be a huge shame if all the glitches were removed. Things like corner jumps and bounceblocks are an intergral part of the game as we currently play it. That is why I think if changes were to be made they have to be chosen selectively. For example, I don't think anyone minds if the stuttering on curved slopes is removed. But to take away the two examples I mentioned earlier, which aren't even glitches as far as I can see but might be removed if the physics engine was cleaned up, would really remove from the flexibility of the ninja as he moves around levels.
Yeh, I've said all along that those glitches should remain (BB physics and Corner jumps etc..). ;)
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Postby 999_Springs » 2010.06.03 (14:56)

moh, maybe you're just not that observant.

Anyway, I have to agree with all the highscorers here about not fixing glitches. They have been incorporated as part of the gameplay now that we've had a chance to get used to them. When there was a slight bounceblock fix in N+ we all remembered the furore that followed. Thousands of NUMA maps would be unplayable. Episode 86 Level 3 would be humanly impossible (jumping between the mines, although technically possible, has never been done outside of a TAS), rendering the game effectively unbeatable. Almost without exception, the runs on the metanet highscore boards rely on bounceblock jumps, thwump squeezes, oneway glitches and other exploitations of the game that weren't originally intended. Even fixing stuttering on slopes would change demos because by its very nature fixing the glitch would mean the ninja has to change its speed/direction for 1/40th of a second to stay on the slope and this would result in the rest of the run being a pixel off or something, and that could mess up existing demos completely.

The other option you suggested is to have two highscore boards, one for the v1.4 physics and the other for v1.5. I'm having a discussion on #n-highscores about this as I type, but at the moment we have two scoreboards for metanet and for nreality, and the metanet boards are competitive but full of hackers, whereas the nreality highscore boards don't have too much point and still aren't competitive, especially on the episode front. The two separate boards for v1.4 and v1.5 might end up the same way. That said, what we really need is to have all the hackers removed from the v1.4 boards. That would be highly appreciated by the highscoring community.

On the other hand, there's no harm in fixing simple glitches that don't affect gameplay such as positive fractional part on negative timer.

Earlier glitch thread here.
Achievements:

Completed N and NReality.
106 N v1.4 highscores.
I used to maintain 1000 NReality Level Top20 Highscores - Ranked 0th
Former Owner of Episode 169, way back when.
I've taken 10 Metanet 0ths. 6 of them lasted <2 days. I don't have any of them anymore. >:(
Third Place in BLUR 4 highscore.
Not highscoring anymore until v2.

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Postby EddyMataGallos » 2010.06.03 (15:08)

999_Springs wrote:That said, what we really need is to have all the hackers removed from the v1.4 boards. That would be highly appreciated by the highscoring community.
Cleverest thing i've heard (read)
OMG, i'd like to see HOW is the 00-0 leaderboard with all original (not hackers) 20 scores, cuz i've never seen it
This is by far a very important thing, so think it.
Last edited by EddyMataGallos on 2010.06.03 (15:16), edited 1 time in total.
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Impressive flag by ska -|- N2High - My software for N2.0 -|- Awesome sig by Hendor
About me & Stats (Spoiler)

Hi, im Eddy, a Spanish highscorer and current Grandmaster of N. I've been playing N since 2006, I beat it on the 8th September 2008, and NReality later too. Started intermittently highscoring Metanet in 2010, although serious highscoring started in late 2011.

Current Stats
• Completed N on 8th Sept. 2008
• Completed NReality on 24th Dec. 2010
0th Place on Metanet 0th Rankings with 443 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Top20 Rankings with 599 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Top10 Rankings with 599 Scores.
1st Place on Metanet Top5 Rankings with 595 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Level 0th Rankings with 361 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Episode 0th Rankings with 82 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Total Level Score: 72142.900 (20:02:22.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Episode Score: 35669.900 (09:54:29.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Point Rankings with 11669 Points.
0th Place in NReality 0th Rankings with 235 0ths.
0th Place for a grand total of 676 Total 0ths.
• Winner of some contests (BUST, 100, 9000, Bounty Hunters, SOAST) and of some rounds of some contests (ROPP, NErratic, Red Ball, NReality Team Arena)

{Info as of 01/Feb/2015} The info may be outdated.

Achievements
• 6th highscorer to reach 100 Metanet 0ths
• 4th highscorer to reach 200 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 300 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 400 Metanet 0ths
• 8th ever Grandmaster
• 2nd* highscorer to reach 599 top-20 Scores
• 1st highscorer to reach 599 top-10 Scores
• 10th highscorer to reach 70k Level Score
• 5th highscorer to reach 71k Level Score
• 2nd highscorer to reach 71.5k Level Score
• 1st highscorer to reach 72k Level Score

Relevant Dates
• First 0th: 31-3 on 04/Oct/10
• Reached 100 Metanet 0ths on 25/Feb/12
• Reached 200 Metanet 0ths on 30/Sep/12
• Reached 300 Metanet 0ths on 16/Mar/13
• Reached 400 Metanet 0ths on 04/Sept/14
• Reached highest amount of 0ths on Jan/2013
• Became the Grandmaster on 12/Apr/2012
• Reached 70k Level Score on 25/Dec/11
• Reached 71k Level Score on 13/Jan/11
• Reached 71.5k Level Score on 01/Aug/12
• Reached 72k Level Score on 04/Jul/14
• Completed N 1.4 on 08/Sept/08
• Completed NReality on 24/Dec/10
• Reached 100 NReality 0ths on Oct/2011
• Reached 200 NReality 0ths on Nov/2011
• Reached 100 Top-20 Scores on Aug/10
• Reached 200 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 300 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 400 Top-20 Scores on Dec/11
• Reached 500 Top-20 Scores on Jan/12
• Reached 599 Top-20 Scores on 04/Apr/12
• Reached 599 Top-10 Scores on 18/Nov/12

Deds & Images (Spoiler)

Thanks to ska for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to BluePretzel for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to da_guru for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this full episode to me!: 00-0 00-100-2 00-3 00-4
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this mappack to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to VODKALOVER for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to runningninja for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to trance for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
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Thanks to the23 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Traveleravi for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to 123leonidas321 for dedicating this map to me
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Thanks to Uniden for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Uniden for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Ors_II for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Sunset for dedicating this map to me
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Thanks to Daggafork for dedicating this map to me
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Thanks to RandomDigits/SpartaX18 for dedicating this map to me
Sorry if Im missing any ded.

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Postby vankusss » 2010.06.03 (15:13)

I don't think that changing anything about physics/bugs is a good idea. We are used to it, i would prefer some interface changes (see TRO's post) and speedrun + cheatproof + chat + ghost mode features. Or some demo editing options, save state etc.

Also, do you really want to break the highscore demos? People played them literally for thousands of hours, you just want to waste them? And 2 versions aren't a solution, backwards compatibility should be aim number 1 (and i don't think you have time to port original N AND make new version with changed physics). If you ask why i care that much about the present highscores, i'm really active on current boards.

Also i wasn't aware of the fact that 'stuttering on slopes' is considered a bug. I think it's part of the game and mastering avoiding it is just part of becoming pro.

I agree with everything what was said AGAINST doing any changes.
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Postby rocket_thumped » 2010.06.03 (15:15)

I'm a little weary of fixing everything. A lot of the glitches have become really nice parts of the game. Wouldn't it be less interesting if everything worked properly?
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Postby EddyMataGallos » 2010.06.03 (15:22)

I just cant say anything against the changes that hasnt been already said....

The highscores leaderboard loss i think its the worst part (and its inevitable?), like van, i think that some improvements like chat, better ned, numa integration, speedrun, more episodes and levels, nreality cooperation,... etc, would have been the best idea for the new N version, there is no need of doing this...

Im not a good player or highscorer, but this last days i was trying to convert my legit top-20s in metanet top-20s, and you know..., i thought it was the time to start metanethighscoring... or the time to start doing something good with N...

PS. 35 people have voted on yes :O
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Impressive flag by ska -|- N2High - My software for N2.0 -|- Awesome sig by Hendor
About me & Stats (Spoiler)

Hi, im Eddy, a Spanish highscorer and current Grandmaster of N. I've been playing N since 2006, I beat it on the 8th September 2008, and NReality later too. Started intermittently highscoring Metanet in 2010, although serious highscoring started in late 2011.

Current Stats
• Completed N on 8th Sept. 2008
• Completed NReality on 24th Dec. 2010
0th Place on Metanet 0th Rankings with 443 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Top20 Rankings with 599 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Top10 Rankings with 599 Scores.
1st Place on Metanet Top5 Rankings with 595 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Level 0th Rankings with 361 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Episode 0th Rankings with 82 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Total Level Score: 72142.900 (20:02:22.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Episode Score: 35669.900 (09:54:29.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Point Rankings with 11669 Points.
0th Place in NReality 0th Rankings with 235 0ths.
0th Place for a grand total of 676 Total 0ths.
• Winner of some contests (BUST, 100, 9000, Bounty Hunters, SOAST) and of some rounds of some contests (ROPP, NErratic, Red Ball, NReality Team Arena)

{Info as of 01/Feb/2015} The info may be outdated.

Achievements
• 6th highscorer to reach 100 Metanet 0ths
• 4th highscorer to reach 200 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 300 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 400 Metanet 0ths
• 8th ever Grandmaster
• 2nd* highscorer to reach 599 top-20 Scores
• 1st highscorer to reach 599 top-10 Scores
• 10th highscorer to reach 70k Level Score
• 5th highscorer to reach 71k Level Score
• 2nd highscorer to reach 71.5k Level Score
• 1st highscorer to reach 72k Level Score

Relevant Dates
• First 0th: 31-3 on 04/Oct/10
• Reached 100 Metanet 0ths on 25/Feb/12
• Reached 200 Metanet 0ths on 30/Sep/12
• Reached 300 Metanet 0ths on 16/Mar/13
• Reached 400 Metanet 0ths on 04/Sept/14
• Reached highest amount of 0ths on Jan/2013
• Became the Grandmaster on 12/Apr/2012
• Reached 70k Level Score on 25/Dec/11
• Reached 71k Level Score on 13/Jan/11
• Reached 71.5k Level Score on 01/Aug/12
• Reached 72k Level Score on 04/Jul/14
• Completed N 1.4 on 08/Sept/08
• Completed NReality on 24/Dec/10
• Reached 100 NReality 0ths on Oct/2011
• Reached 200 NReality 0ths on Nov/2011
• Reached 100 Top-20 Scores on Aug/10
• Reached 200 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 300 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 400 Top-20 Scores on Dec/11
• Reached 500 Top-20 Scores on Jan/12
• Reached 599 Top-20 Scores on 04/Apr/12
• Reached 599 Top-10 Scores on 18/Nov/12

Deds & Images (Spoiler)

Thanks to ska for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to BluePretzel for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to da_guru for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this full episode to me!: 00-0 00-100-2 00-3 00-4
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this mappack to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to VODKALOVER for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to runningninja for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to trance for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to llabesab for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to the23 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Traveleravi for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to 123leonidas321 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to the23 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Uniden for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Uniden for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Ors_II for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Sunset for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Leonhard for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Daggafork for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to VODKALOVER for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to RandomDigits/SpartaX18 for dedicating this map to me
Sorry if Im missing any ded.

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Postby otters » 2010.06.03 (17:12)

I'm assuming in this context that "little glitches" means things such as standing on the edges of normal doors, the 14345934398 ways there are to get through one-ways the wrong direction, and bounceblocks "sticking" a bit too far from their original place when you stretch them far enough to go through them. I would be very happy if those things could be fixed, and I would be unbearably happy if you fixed the slope-hopping problem (I'm not a highscorer so it annoys the fuck out of me) and let us walljump off of one-ways and thwumps even if we weren't holding the directional button toward them.

Things I'd rather stay: being able to pass through locked doors etc. if you chimney fast enough, all types of cornerjumps and bounceblock double/triple jumps, walljumping between 1 tile spaced mines.

The highscores are admittedly a problem. That said, all current highscores work in 1.4 and should do so forever; there's no "ruining all current demos" about it, it's dependent on the way the current game handles physics. Certainly either version would have an edge on different levels, and I don't see any particular problem about running two different N versions in tandem for different purposes. The most radical solution I can think of is to limit each N version to highscoring on its own levels (assuming 1.5 has new ones) or, even more radically, limiting highscoring on traditional levels to only 1.4 while promoting 1.5 for more casual gameplay. That way, everything does stay exactly the same while you get to enjoy the benefits of all the new stuff. ;)

Just my two cents.
Last edited by otters on 2010.06.03 (17:19), edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Seneschal » 2010.06.03 (17:17)

I see some people have suggested implementing a 'ghost' mode; I seem to recall that such an idea was deemed unfeasible because it would cause n to crash, but I can't find the thread where this was said, so I'd be interested to know if that were true or not.

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Postby TheRealOne » 2010.06.03 (17:32)

mohamedraif wrote:I am against changing anything in the physics engine of N. Not even the stuttering up slope bug (I never took that to be a bug anyway). Zap drones and chainguns aren't really random anyway and don't need to be changed. None of the bugs need to be removed as well.
We just need more features such as speedrun mode, nmaps.net intergration and better Level Editor. And anti-cheat/anti-hack protection. Or maybe even in-game chat.
QFT

Breaking all of the existing demos that players have spent that last 4 years on would be travesty. The game needs new thing not changes to the old great things.
Savesstates
Rerecording
NUMA intergration
In game chat
New drones
Redesign Level editor
New objects
Maybe new tiles if it doesn't require changing the physics
Better .sol protection
Ghosting

Things like this are what are needed.
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Postby OutrightOJ » 2010.06.03 (17:51)

I don't know. I mean sure, changing the small things, like the tile-slant stumble like Inspired-mentioned, would result in a much cleaner gameplay, but then the challenge of cleaning that jump would be gone. It's these little 'problems' which make N the game it is now, and I think that taking them out would be taking out a part of the original game itself.

By the way, you guys are awesome to give us the chance to speak our minds about this. <3
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Postby raigan » 2010.06.03 (18:29)

I guess we should probably make a FAQ or something.. the main thing is: all of the v1.4 data and everything will continue to exist, it won't be replaced or deleted, so nothing that exists will be "broken" wrt 1.4.. it will still work just fine and you'll be able to use it.

The main issue is that we strongly prefer to work in AS3, but if the current AS1 code is ported to AS3 -- even if it's as line-for-line identical as possible -- this may still result in stuff breaking because a different version of the Flash Virtual Machine is being used to execute the code.

In order to add support for many of the features that have been requested, there's really no reasonable way to do this with the existing code; it is littered with bugs, to the point that if you compile it for any flashplayer beyond 6 or 7 it won't work! (This suggests some hidden case-sensitive typos that we're still unable to find.)

Any of the non-game-related stuff (i.e the editor) should be backwards compatible, i.e in v1.5 you should be able to export your levels to either v1.4 or v1.5. We have to change the level formats for a variety of reasons, but we will always make sure that 1.5 can load 1.4 levels.. however, obviously, 1.4 replays won't work.

Basically this is somewhat of a huge murky mess we're attempting to navigate through!

If it comes down to it, we can always support a "classic 1.4" mode within 1.5 by simply loading/embedding the 1.4 .swf file inside the v1.5 program. Possibly we should find a better name than v1.5, because it's true that what we're looking at is more of a "v2.0" type shift.

Anyway we're still solidifying our plans and this dialogue is really helping to clear things up, thanks! Possibly we might consider making a v1.5 which is an AS3 shell that implements all non-simulation stuff (new editor, etc) but uses the v1.4 game itself so that it's totally backwards compatible; we can then replace the simulation with an AS3 version for v2.0...

Basically a lot of stuff is still up in the air :)

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Postby RandomDigits » 2010.06.03 (18:53)

I'm torn on this issue. I'd love for the gameplay to be made better, but then I'd have to re-learn to play as well as I currently play. Some or many of my maps would be ruined if the bugs were removed, but I might be able to make better new maps with the new gameplay...

Except wait! Classic mode! <3

What about the physics modding seen in nreality? What do the highscorers think of that? What do Mare and Raigan think about that? Could v_1.5 implement something similar?
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Postby EddyMataGallos » 2010.06.03 (19:12)

raigan wrote:I guess we should probably make a FAQ or something.. the main thing is: all of the v1.4 data and everything will continue to exist, it won't be replaced or deleted, so nothing that exists will be "broken" wrt 1.4.. it will still work just fine and you'll be able to use it.

The main issue is that we strongly prefer to work in AS3, but if the current AS1 code is ported to AS3 -- even if it's as line-for-line identical as possible -- this may still result in stuff breaking because a different version of the Flash Virtual Machine is being used to execute the code.

In order to add support for many of the features that have been requested, there's really no reasonable way to do this with the existing code; it is littered with bugs, to the point that if you compile it for any flashplayer beyond 6 or 7 it won't work! (This suggests some hidden case-sensitive typos that we're still unable to find.)

Any of the non-game-related stuff (i.e the editor) should be backwards compatible, i.e in v1.5 you should be able to export your levels to either v1.4 or v1.5. We have to change the level formats for a variety of reasons, but we will always make sure that 1.5 can load 1.4 levels.. however, obviously, 1.4 replays won't work.

Basically this is somewhat of a huge murky mess we're attempting to navigate through!

If it comes down to it, we can always support a "classic 1.4" mode within 1.5 by simply loading/embedding the 1.4 .swf file inside the v1.5 program. Possibly we should find a better name than v1.5, because it's true that what we're looking at is more of a "v2.0" type shift.

Anyway we're still solidifying our plans and this dialogue is really helping to clear things up, thanks! Possibly we might consider making a v1.5 which is an AS3 shell that implements all non-simulation stuff (new editor, etc) but uses the v1.4 game itself so that it's totally backwards compatible; we can then replace the simulation with an AS3 version for v2.0...

Basically a lot of stuff is still up in the air :)
This is awesome! Metanet has the BEST comunity, developers who talk with N players to create their new version of N,... incredible :) Best developers no doubt ;)
ImageImage
Impressive flag by ska -|- N2High - My software for N2.0 -|- Awesome sig by Hendor
About me & Stats (Spoiler)

Hi, im Eddy, a Spanish highscorer and current Grandmaster of N. I've been playing N since 2006, I beat it on the 8th September 2008, and NReality later too. Started intermittently highscoring Metanet in 2010, although serious highscoring started in late 2011.

Current Stats
• Completed N on 8th Sept. 2008
• Completed NReality on 24th Dec. 2010
0th Place on Metanet 0th Rankings with 443 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Top20 Rankings with 599 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Top10 Rankings with 599 Scores.
1st Place on Metanet Top5 Rankings with 595 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Level 0th Rankings with 361 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Episode 0th Rankings with 82 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Total Level Score: 72142.900 (20:02:22.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Episode Score: 35669.900 (09:54:29.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Point Rankings with 11669 Points.
0th Place in NReality 0th Rankings with 235 0ths.
0th Place for a grand total of 676 Total 0ths.
• Winner of some contests (BUST, 100, 9000, Bounty Hunters, SOAST) and of some rounds of some contests (ROPP, NErratic, Red Ball, NReality Team Arena)

{Info as of 01/Feb/2015} The info may be outdated.

Achievements
• 6th highscorer to reach 100 Metanet 0ths
• 4th highscorer to reach 200 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 300 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 400 Metanet 0ths
• 8th ever Grandmaster
• 2nd* highscorer to reach 599 top-20 Scores
• 1st highscorer to reach 599 top-10 Scores
• 10th highscorer to reach 70k Level Score
• 5th highscorer to reach 71k Level Score
• 2nd highscorer to reach 71.5k Level Score
• 1st highscorer to reach 72k Level Score

Relevant Dates
• First 0th: 31-3 on 04/Oct/10
• Reached 100 Metanet 0ths on 25/Feb/12
• Reached 200 Metanet 0ths on 30/Sep/12
• Reached 300 Metanet 0ths on 16/Mar/13
• Reached 400 Metanet 0ths on 04/Sept/14
• Reached highest amount of 0ths on Jan/2013
• Became the Grandmaster on 12/Apr/2012
• Reached 70k Level Score on 25/Dec/11
• Reached 71k Level Score on 13/Jan/11
• Reached 71.5k Level Score on 01/Aug/12
• Reached 72k Level Score on 04/Jul/14
• Completed N 1.4 on 08/Sept/08
• Completed NReality on 24/Dec/10
• Reached 100 NReality 0ths on Oct/2011
• Reached 200 NReality 0ths on Nov/2011
• Reached 100 Top-20 Scores on Aug/10
• Reached 200 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 300 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 400 Top-20 Scores on Dec/11
• Reached 500 Top-20 Scores on Jan/12
• Reached 599 Top-20 Scores on 04/Apr/12
• Reached 599 Top-10 Scores on 18/Nov/12

Deds & Images (Spoiler)

Thanks to ska for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to BluePretzel for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to da_guru for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this full episode to me!: 00-0 00-100-2 00-3 00-4
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this mappack to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to VODKALOVER for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to runningninja for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to trance for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to llabesab for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to the23 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Traveleravi for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to 123leonidas321 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to the23 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Uniden for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Uniden for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Ors_II for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Sunset for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Leonhard for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Daggafork for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to VODKALOVER for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to RandomDigits/SpartaX18 for dedicating this map to me
Sorry if Im missing any ded.

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Postby RandomDigits » 2010.06.03 (19:14)

If there's no way to add the new features everyone wants, what are ya waiting for? Rewrite it all!
With classic mode of course :3
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Postby EddyMataGallos » 2010.06.03 (19:23)

RandomDigits wrote:If there's no way to add the new features everyone wants, what are ya waiting for? Rewrite it all!
With classic mode of course :3
There are a lot of things to think yet! :)
Last edited by EddyMataGallos on 2010.06.03 (19:32), edited 1 time in total.
ImageImage
Impressive flag by ska -|- N2High - My software for N2.0 -|- Awesome sig by Hendor
About me & Stats (Spoiler)

Hi, im Eddy, a Spanish highscorer and current Grandmaster of N. I've been playing N since 2006, I beat it on the 8th September 2008, and NReality later too. Started intermittently highscoring Metanet in 2010, although serious highscoring started in late 2011.

Current Stats
• Completed N on 8th Sept. 2008
• Completed NReality on 24th Dec. 2010
0th Place on Metanet 0th Rankings with 443 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Top20 Rankings with 599 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Top10 Rankings with 599 Scores.
1st Place on Metanet Top5 Rankings with 595 Scores.
0th Place on Metanet Level 0th Rankings with 361 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Episode 0th Rankings with 82 0ths.
0th Place on Metanet Total Level Score: 72142.900 (20:02:22.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Episode Score: 35669.900 (09:54:29.900)
0th Place on Metanet Total Point Rankings with 11669 Points.
0th Place in NReality 0th Rankings with 235 0ths.
0th Place for a grand total of 676 Total 0ths.
• Winner of some contests (BUST, 100, 9000, Bounty Hunters, SOAST) and of some rounds of some contests (ROPP, NErratic, Red Ball, NReality Team Arena)

{Info as of 01/Feb/2015} The info may be outdated.

Achievements
• 6th highscorer to reach 100 Metanet 0ths
• 4th highscorer to reach 200 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 300 Metanet 0ths
• 1st and only highscorer to reach 400 Metanet 0ths
• 8th ever Grandmaster
• 2nd* highscorer to reach 599 top-20 Scores
• 1st highscorer to reach 599 top-10 Scores
• 10th highscorer to reach 70k Level Score
• 5th highscorer to reach 71k Level Score
• 2nd highscorer to reach 71.5k Level Score
• 1st highscorer to reach 72k Level Score

Relevant Dates
• First 0th: 31-3 on 04/Oct/10
• Reached 100 Metanet 0ths on 25/Feb/12
• Reached 200 Metanet 0ths on 30/Sep/12
• Reached 300 Metanet 0ths on 16/Mar/13
• Reached 400 Metanet 0ths on 04/Sept/14
• Reached highest amount of 0ths on Jan/2013
• Became the Grandmaster on 12/Apr/2012
• Reached 70k Level Score on 25/Dec/11
• Reached 71k Level Score on 13/Jan/11
• Reached 71.5k Level Score on 01/Aug/12
• Reached 72k Level Score on 04/Jul/14
• Completed N 1.4 on 08/Sept/08
• Completed NReality on 24/Dec/10
• Reached 100 NReality 0ths on Oct/2011
• Reached 200 NReality 0ths on Nov/2011
• Reached 100 Top-20 Scores on Aug/10
• Reached 200 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 300 Top-20 Scores on Nov/11
• Reached 400 Top-20 Scores on Dec/11
• Reached 500 Top-20 Scores on Jan/12
• Reached 599 Top-20 Scores on 04/Apr/12
• Reached 599 Top-10 Scores on 18/Nov/12

Deds & Images (Spoiler)

Thanks to ska for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to BluePretzel for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to da_guru for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this full episode to me!: 00-0 00-100-2 00-3 00-4
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this mappack to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to VODKALOVER for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to runningninja for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for partially dedicating this map to me
Thanks to trance for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to zoasBE for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to llabesab for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to the23 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Traveleravi for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to 123leonidas321 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to the23 for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Uniden for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Uniden for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Ors_II for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Sunset for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Leonhard for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Daggafork for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to VODKALOVER for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to blue_rocks for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to Armaghan_Ali for dedicating this map to me
Thanks to RandomDigits/SpartaX18 for dedicating this map to me
Sorry if Im missing any ded.

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ImageThanks to leo.
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