Suicide

[aids]

Not one of our prouder moments, but another member (Ngaged) brought this up around two years ago. This lead to some serious concern whether he himself was thinking of committing suicide. He disappeared for a little bit, but came back a happier, perfectly calm person. Looking back on what could have happened, I don't know how I would have handled his death. He wasn't someone I personally knew, but I did recognize both his maps and name.

I've always wondered what would happen if I were to kill myself. What would happen to my family, my friends, work, school, you guys. What would happen to my online life? Would it fizz and die, or be left as a memorial of sorts? Granted, I could never kill myself (I'm pretty gutless) but what one wonders in the privacy of his own mind still is reflected in his actions. I try not to dwell on the 'what-ifs' and 'what-thens.'

So why do people kill themselves? LittleViking (?) once stated: "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." This is the truest statement I've heard on these forums. Whether or not their problem is as big as they assume it to be, never joke around with suicide. Always take a suicide threat seriously. You really never know when somebody is kidding or not. We as a community should be here to support our members through both good times and bad times, and there are many, many people here in whom I've come to confide. And I'm sure the same goes for them.

[fawk]

I want to meet this Ritchie fellow. But not, like, in the way that he normally meets people, if you get me. What a nice man he sounds.

[SlappyMcGee]

I like what Life247 said, although I think the idea that we should never joke around with suicide is what makes it such a funny thing to joke around about. It presses buttons.

Incidentally, the picture from the OP looked like Hunter S. Thompson, who killed himself, so I entered this topic depressed.

[Rose]

So why do people kill themselves? LittleViking (?) once stated: "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."

That's what my high school math teacher said.

Over the course of my childhood/adolescence, I attempted suicide six times (God only knows how I survived /all/ of them, but I'm glad I did). Then I was introduced to a wonderful magical thing called Prozac. I'm a pretty happy and optimistic person now ^_^

[Tanner]

Treating the symptoms and not the cause is bad medicine.

[epigone]

Wow thats a really interesting story. Good people do exist!

[Tanner]

Treating the symptoms and not the cause is bad medicine.

And sometimes the cause is purely a result of neurochemistry. What's your point?

Just that drugs are easy and therapy is hard. Nothing more.

[Rose]

Treating the symptoms and not the cause is bad medicine.

And sometimes the cause is purely a result of neurochemistry. What's your point?

Just that drugs are easy and therapy is hard. Nothing more.

Oh please don't tell me you're one of those people who are against psychology drugs. They saved my fucking life. And if you must know, I went to therapy for about a year. It didn't do nearly as much good as the drugs did.

[Tanner]

Oh please don't tell me you're one of those people who are against psychology drugs. They saved my fucking life. And if you must know, I went to therapy for about a year. It didn't do nearly as much good as the drugs did.

I'm not. Are you still doing therapy?

[otters~1]

Incredibly heartwarming. And what a unique position for that man to be in -- imagine waking up every day knowing you can make a huge difference in a stranger's life.

[Rose]

Oh please don't tell me you're one of those people who are against psychology drugs. They saved my fucking life. And if you must know, I went to therapy for about a year. It didn't do nearly as much good as the drugs did.

I'm not. Are you still doing therapy?

I am not currently, but I also have no problems that require it. I'm a pretty happy individual at this point in my life. Of course, if I do start getting depressed, I will start up again. :p But right now the main thing is to not be like those people who stop taking their meds because they feel better. The meds are what make you feel better. I don't think I would ever do that, but it's damn important.

[origami_alligator]

I listened to an interesting story on NPR.org a while back about suicide.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =126365907

[Suicide] certainly seems selfish from the outside. I understand the sentiment. But the trouble is, in trying to reason about the suicidal mind from a non-suicidal place - that's basically where most of these myths come from.

What the suicidal person is thinking at the time is actually quite different from selfishness. Their idea is along the lines of, my death will be worth more than my life to others.

Now, if you ponder that sentiment, that's not selfish at all. In fact, if anything it's the opposite. It's very selfless. Now, let me make a key point about that idea that's in the mind of suicidal people. That idea is mistaken, but the tragedy, one of hundreds of many tragedies about this event - or this phenomenon, rather - is that the suicidal person doesn't know it's mistaken. They think the idea is true, and it spurs their fatal behavior.

[Tanner]

Are you still doing therapy?

I am not currently, but I also have no problems that require it. I'm a pretty happy individual at this point in my life. Of course, if I do start getting depressed, I will start up again.

If you start getting depressed again, why not just up the dosage on your medication?

[OneSevenNine]

Huh. That's a really interesting story, especially because this this here other public radio show had an episode of which one segment was about some guy in china who does the same thing on the most-jumped-off bridge in the world and keeps a blog about it. I say it's interesting because the reporter who went to meet him expected him to be serene and benevolent, much like Richie is, but they found out he was actually pretty grouchy and didn't ever open up to anyone about it. He doesn't at all give the guys a cup of tea--he scolds them, kinda. It's strange.

You guys should listen a bit--part of the way through, the reporter actually catches a guy about to jump and sees him dissuaded by the local guy in person, but the story just kinda leaves you with an uneasy feeling--you expect the experience of saving this guy's life to be heart-warming and inspiring, but somehow saving someone from suicide doesn't always turn out like that.

[t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư]

I'm confused and suspicious regarding "happy pills", or more accurately people telling me that they're happy on happy pills. Y'see, I've been on happy pills, and I've had talks with my prescribing physicians about happy pills about what they'll do, and I've gone on to live through the expectations those talks gave me... and I feel I can say confidently that one thing they most definitely do not do is make you happy. They're not stimulants; they are anti-depressants in the most strictly literal sense of the word: they reduce the presence of depressing thoughts by reducing your thinking altogether, under the assumption that you think more often than not thoughts that depress you. They're not bear snuggles and lollipops, but zombie-mode pills. This is why, for example, particularly extroverted people have an increased risk of attempting suicide on anti-depressants -- they are even more depressed in zombie mode than they were without them.
Fortunately, in my case, depression happened to be a mis-diagnosis for the issues my family thought deserved therapy and medication. The final verdict turned out to be ADD, which I'm even more suspicious of, although I didn't remember the full justification that my therapist gave because it ended up blurring into the typical sort of mumbo-jumbo you hear from lazy physicians these days who just jump at the prescription pad the moment they hear the first symptom. His appearance should've clued me in, really. The clinic was pretty low-key and surrounded by all these yoga and chiropractic places, and he had one of those stupid beards that New Agey people wear. I don't know why people think that goatee/moustache style is actually appealing, or makes them look attractive. I guess for some older men that was just what the view of attractive men was when they were young, even though it's so silly now. Obviously, I can only speak for my own generation, but I can't imagine his younger family members not making fun of it, like a daughter of his or something. So he must not have had a daughter my age, otherwise I actually probably would have seen her at some point in his office when I came for my sessions, although it'd be weird to try to pick her up while I'm basically admitting to psychological problems by seeing her father in the first place. Although my brother once picked up a girl while he was in the emergency room, and she didn't even know what he was in there for, so it could have been something terrible. I guess he kept his injury hidden well enough that she didn't see it... which makes you wonder how many people have injuries they hide but walk around with in plain sight. Like, I know my back is almost always in some minor pain, especially when I sit around for a while not moving, like when I'm hunched over a keyboard for hours on end or something. It's hard to believe that chairs and other furniture that aren't ergonomical aren't much worse sellers simply because you'd think people wouldn't buy them if they weren't comfortable, but I guess most people these days are more concerned about appearances than comfort. It's like women and shoes, except on a non-gender-specific level. How long has that been a trend, exactly? Foot binding has been huge in China for centuries, as I understand it, so it's probably been a while. Although God help us if China meaningfully influences other cultures internationally, even if the Middle East probably has the most harmful social norms today. I really do feel sorry for the women there. Ever since the rise of patriarchal societies, women have just had Kablizzy-league luck in every society that followed that example. I think I'd consider myself a feminist, to be honest.
Anyway, my point is, shows like Sex and the City are misguided perversions of any sensible sort of feminist movement, since it only strengthens the harmful stereotypes that need to be done away with in order for women to truly be regarded as equals in our presently patriarchal societies. The Western fashion industry does not "empower" women, but only drives our expectations for them toward a caricature of our already misguided societal views of them.

[Destiny]

The final verdict turned out to be ADD

[totally irrelevant tower post]

Hahahaha, I get it.

[Rose]

I'm confused and suspicious regarding "happy pills", or more accurately people telling me that they're happy on happy pills. Y'see, I've been on happy pills, and I've had talks with my prescribing physicians about happy pills about what they'll do, and I've gone on to live through the expectations those talks gave me... and I feel I can say confidently that one thing they most definitely do not do is make you happy. They're not stimulants; they are anti-depressants in the most strictly literal sense of the word: they reduce the presence of depressing thoughts by reducing your thinking altogether, under the assumption that you think more often than not thoughts that depress you. They're not bear snuggles and lollipops, but zombie-mode pills. This is why, for example, particularly extroverted people have an increased risk of attempting suicide on anti-depressants -- they are even more depressed in zombie mode than they were without them.

Yeah, unfortunately, that's the case with some people (it's medication, not magic; one size does not fit all, some other cliche, etc). It's certainly not the case for everyone though; if anything, my thinking ability has increased because I can actually focus on things rather than being depressed all the time for no good reason. And if you were mis-diagnosed and didn't actually have depression, how can you consider yourself a good example of the effects of antidepressants on people who really need them?

So he must not have had a daughter my age, otherwise I actually probably would have seen her at some point in his office when I came for my sessions, although it'd be weird to try to pick her up while I'm basically admitting to psychological problems by seeing her father in the first place.

Hey, I've had multiple girlfriends in the past who knew, before dating me, that I had OCD and depression. They didn't care. That's a big reason why I liked them enough to ask them out in the first place ^_^

[Tanner]

They're not stimulants; they are anti-depressants in the most strictly literal sense of the word: they reduce the presence of depressing thoughts by reducing your thinking altogether, under the assumption that you think more often than not thoughts that depress you.

It's certainly not the case for everyone though; if anything, my thinking ability has increased because I can actually focus on things rather than being depressed all the time for no good reason.

Suki's talking about how the anti-depressants actually affect your brain. From a neuro-chemical standpoint, that's how they work. I can throw some links your way if you insist but this really isn't a point of contention. You feel like your brain is working more efficiently because these drugs are doing some of the work depressing thoughts already thereby allowing you to concentrate more on the task at hand. Again, your perception of reality is altered by these drugs because that's what they're designed to do.

[Rose]

They're not stimulants; they are anti-depressants in the most strictly literal sense of the word: they reduce the presence of depressing thoughts by reducing your thinking altogether, under the assumption that you think more often than not thoughts that depress you.

It's certainly not the case for everyone though; if anything, my thinking ability has increased because I can actually focus on things rather than being depressed all the time for no good reason.

Suki's talking about how the anti-depressants actually affect your brain. From a neuro-chemical standpoint, that's how they work. I can throw some links your way if you insist but this really isn't a point of contention. You feel like your brain is working more efficiently because these drugs are doing some of the work depressing thoughts already thereby allowing you to concentrate more on the task at hand. Again, your perception of reality is altered by these drugs because that's what they're designed to do.

Fair enough, but considering I'm not dead I think it's a positive rather than a negative.

[Tanner]

I am still of the opinion that if I were to, for whatever reason, begin taking anti-depressants, I would also begin therapy sessions and maintain them as long as I was still on the drugs. As I've previously said, I see nothing wrong with these drugs when they are necessary but reliance thereon and continued use thereof without working towards being in a position where you do not have to use them is bad. Doctors currently have no way of knowing whether it's a neurochemical imbalance or an environmental factor that is the root cause of your depression and it is irresponsible and lazy to treat both with mind-altering drugs. That is why I think you should be pursuing all possible treatment options for you disorder.

[SlappyMcGee]

I am still of the opinion that if I were to, for whatever reason, begin taking anti-depressants, I would also begin therapy sessions and maintain them as long as I was still on the drugs. As I've previously said, I see nothing wrong with these drugs when they are necessary but reliance thereon and continued use thereof without working towards being in a position where you do not have to use them is bad. Doctors currently have no way of knowing whether it's a neurochemical imbalance or an environmental factor that is the root cause of your depression and it is irresponsible and lazy to treat both with mind-altering drugs. That is why I think you should be pursuing all possible treatment options for you disorder.

You can get an anxiety disorder relating to problems with the hormones in your thyroid, genetics, or a variety of other factors where the anxiety is being caused by your body and not psychology. There are instances wherein anti-depressants do not need to be accompanied by therapy, is what I am saying.

[Tanner]

No, of course I recognize that. I'm under the impression, though, that it's not possible at this time to diagnose those problems with any degree of certainty on a patient to patient basis. If I'm wrong and maxson's doctor has shown that he definitely has a neurochemical imbalance, I'll bow out.

[Rose]

No, of course I recognize that. I'm under the impression, though, that it's not possible at this time to diagnose those problems with any degree of certainty on a patient to patient basis. If I'm wrong and maxson's doctor has shown that he definitely has a neurochemical imbalance, I'll bow out.

I'll admit they haven't shown anything in blood tests for my OCD (IIRC, such tests for OCD are not possible yet), but I have a pathetic level of serotonin.

[Tanner]

I'll admit they haven't shown anything in blood tests for my OCD (IIRC, such tests for OCD are not possible yet), but I have a pathetic level of serotonin.

So you have a low level of serotonin but do you know why? Answers to questions like that will be what tells you if these drugs are accounting for a broken part of your body or covering up a damaged part of your psyche. You seem to have an "as long as it works" attitude which is nice for you because, like I said earlier, drugs are easy and therapy is hard. It's just not an attitude I can relate to in this particular instance.

[SlappyMcGee]

No, of course I recognize that. I'm under the impression, though, that it's not possible at this time to diagnose those problems with any degree of certainty on a patient to patient basis. If I'm wrong and maxson's doctor has shown that he definitely has a neurochemical imbalance, I'll bow out.

I agree with you in instances where such a thing cannot be diagnosed certainly, although thyroid problems can be diagnosed. And in maxxxon's case, therapy and drugs are necessarily what should be done.

I think a lot of it comes from people not understanding what a chemical imbalance is. There is shit your body does pertaining to all kinds of shit you do. Like, if you wake up in the middle of the night and go to the bathroom, the bathroom light can cause your body to stop producing melatonin, which interrupts your circadian rhythm, which the WHO believes is 'probably carcinogenic'. That means that something as simple as flicking a switch can possibly effect your body deeply. The same thing with your attitude and the way you were brought up. It's easy to take a pill that fixes your melatonin, but it would be much better if you never turned the proverbial bathroom light on in the first place.