N v1.5 Poll: Small Changes

[EddyMataGallos]

I have got a question: Were N 1.3 highscores compatible with N 1.4? Because in that case, wiping didn´t affect to much the highscorers, because they only needed to resubmit their scores again. But this time is different... if we want to appear on the new boards, we'll have to highscore them again, wont we?

If the physics werent changed, it would be a good idea to create a new leaderboard (preserving the old one of course) with only the highscores of the active highscorers, because they wont need to highscore them again. Anyway you have been here much more time than me, so you know better what to do, i only think.

Of course i know every thing done to N will be a good thing :)

They were not. The highscores were done 100% from the ground up when v1.4 was released.

I know this is old but

[Kablizzy]

I have got a question: Were N 1.3 highscores compatible with N 1.4? Because in that case, wiping didn´t affect to much the highscorers, because they only needed to resubmit their scores again. But this time is different... if we want to appear on the new boards, we'll have to highscore them again, wont we?

If the physics werent changed, it would be a good idea to create a new leaderboard (preserving the old one of course) with only the highscores of the active highscorers, because they wont need to highscore them again. Anyway you have been here much more time than me, so you know better what to do, i only think.

Of course i know every thing done to N will be a good thing :)

They were not. The highscores were done 100% from the ground up when v1.4 was released.

I know this is old but

Then I must have been, like, the fastest player ever. I played from 00-0 all the way through and still finished the game before, like, all but eleven people. Either that or no one saw that button until way later. 'Cause the highscore boards were empty while I was playing through the first time.

[wildercat]

Hmm, thats weird, I'm one of the few people who like the stutter, I though it really added depth to where you had to slow down and make sure every landing and everything was juuust right. But I voted good idea, I think changes would be good other than that.

[Equilibrium]

You need to change some things yes, for example I am living in Finland and the keyboard I have you can´t get out the exit sign when using the Ned!!! You need to press Alt Gr + 8 or 9 to get the exit and the oneway platform. So please change it i would be relieved if you made the that change so people with international keyboards can play this game as well!!!!!

[EddyMataGallos]

I've just got a great idea: If we are going to change all the game physics, bugs, etc, Why not change all the levels too?!?! (not sarcastic).
This way all people would be satisfaced:

- People who wants the game to change adn fix bugs and/or have more posibilities in entering the Top-20 leaderboards,... etc, would be satisfied.
- Highscorers who dont want the game to change due to the highscore leaderboards would be satisfied.

Because if we change all, but not the levels, it'd be a complete mess to highscore, like "on which leaderboards do I highscore now, 1.4 or 1.5 O.o?".

If we change the levels as well, there wont be any problem about this, and all people would be satisfied (or at least, much more people).

Please M&R consider this :)

[aids]

I've just got a great idea: If we are going to change all the game physics, bugs, etc, Why not change all the levels too?!?! (not sarcastic).
This way all people would be satisfaced:

- People who wants the game to change adn fix bugs and/or have more posibilities in entering the Top-20 leaderboards,... etc, would be satisfied.
- Highscorers who dont want the game to change due to the highscore leaderboards would be satisfied.

Because if we change all, but not the levels, it'd be a complete mess to highscore, like "on which leaderboards do I highscore now, 1.4 or 1.5 O.o?".

If we change the levels as well, there wont be any problem about this, and all people would be satisfied (or at least, much more people).

Please M&R consider this :)

Well, if you change the physics, you'll probably have to change the levels because you won't be able to use the same techniques as before. That being said, M&R could easily tell us to make maps, and we would.

[EddyMataGallos]

Well, if you change the physics, you'll probably have to change the levels because you won't be able to use the same techniques as before. That being said, M&R could easily tell us to make maps, and we would.

Yeah I suposed they were going to build all the levels again, but im suspecting they are going to build the same levels of 1.4 in N 1.5, and maybe another ones.
Thats not good, because if they do so,the highscorers will split in two parts (1.4 and 1.5 highscorers), and highscoring will be a complete mess.

I really hope they will change all the levels.

[vankusss]

+1 to Eddy's idea of including new maps
On the other note, I don't think they will split, 1.4-ers will just own 1.5/2.0, too :D

[EddyMataGallos]

+1 to Eddy's idea of including new maps
On the other note, I don't think they will split, 1.4-ers will just own 1.5/2.0, too :D

Yeah, I know xD, but if there are the same levels in 1.4 and 1.5, you'll have to highscore those levels on both 1.4 and 1.5 if you want to appear on both leaderboards.

What to do with levels that are on both games (N 1.4 and 1.5)?
- Left 1.4 and start highscoring only 1.5?
- Continue playing 1.4 and only play on 1.5 the new levels?

But if they change the levels, you wouldnt have to answer yourself those questions ;D

[999_Springs]

+1 to Eddy's idea of including new maps
On the other note, I don't think they will split, 1.4-ers will just own 1.5/2.0, too :D

Yeah, I know xD, but if there are the same levels in 1.4 and 1.5, you'll have to highscore those levels on both 1.4 and 1.5 if you want to appear on both leaderboards.

What to do with levels that are on both games (N 1.4 and 1.5)?
- Left 1.4 and start highscoring only 1.5?
- Continue playing 1.4 and only play on 1.5 the new levels?

But if they change the levels, you wouldnt have to answer yourself those questions ;D

What I'm worried about with this is that all the highscorers might just want to stick with v1.4 and not decide to play the new levels competitively. You know NReality? That was released 3 years ago to provide new levels for the current highscorers to highscore. A whole 100 new episodes. And yet, three years on, the leaderboards still aren't very competitive. You can get a level top-20 with a half-decent AGD on almost any level in the legacy pack and as for the episode scores you sometimes get only about 3 competitive scores at the top and the rest are just bland completions. And the zeroths are much easier to take on blue_tetris/Legacy levels than on metanet ones. If you decide to create a new set of levels for v1.5 you'll need to find some way of getting highscorers to actually competitively use them or else they'll be kind of neglected like the NReality boards we have now for ep100-199.

[EddyMataGallos]

If you decide to create a new set of levels for v1.5 you'll need to find some way of getting highscorers to actually competitively use them or else they'll be kind of neglected like the NReality boards we have now for ep100-199.

Do you prefer having split leaderboards of the same levels in two diferent uncompatible games?

Also, the NReality boards are only 3 years old, like the N boards were on 2007, considering that NReality is a expansion and therefore is less known, I believe the NReality boards are going more or less the same way that the N boards, relatively.

[scythe]

something negative that could be changed for the better is walljumping off of trap doors.

I'm for this.

[999_Springs]

Also, the NReality boards are only 3 years old, like the N boards were on 2007, considering that NReality is a expansion and therefore is less known, I believe the NReality boards are going more or less the same way that the N boards, relatively.

Right, allow me to make some comparisons.

Ok, start at the beginning with the easy levels. Let's see what 100-0 highscore looks like after 3 years.
100-0 Highscore
There are four and a half seconds between 0th and 19th. It's the first level in the additional section of NReality and it's still possible after 3 years to get a top20 just by getting a half-decent AGD. I never tried to actually get onto that level but I still have a top-20 there. Compare to some of the earlier levels in v1.4 after 3 years:
Episode 0 Levels, 24th June 2007
Ok, 00-0 is half full of hackers so you can't use that as a comparison, fair enough. Let's look at the other levels. 00-2 you need 109.575 to get onto the boards which means you need some decent chimneying and maybe get the corner jump at the top. On 00-4 you need at least one good corner jump off a locked door to get above 101.5. It doesn't even compare with what you need to get onto the legit mode boards for Ep0 levels in NReality.

Let's pick some other levels. 92-4 is a classic v1.4 level which is easy enough to max out (with the old route) as long as you don't hit the drone. Here's the scoreboard for 92-4:
92-4, 24th June 2007
And as you can see all the scores 2nd to 19th have the same time and you can't get onto the level any more without using kryx's route.
What's the closest NReality equivalent? Probably 121-1, since you can just time it right to beat the drone and max it out. Here's the scoreboard:
NReality 121-1
and there are only 3 scores at the top with 104.700 and the rest are up to 3 frames off.

Let's take some other levels at random.
NReality 182-1
and its metanet lookalike:
96-1, 24th June 2007
Try playing the levels. You'll soon find which is easier: to get a 74 on 182-1 or a 94 on 96-1.

How about the hardest NReality level?
NReality 188-4
and in terms of how annoyingly tedious it is it's most similar to:
96-4, 24th June 2007
and just compare the two. For 188-4 you need to just complete it the cautious way and you'll probably get a top20. For 96-4 just to get on the boards you'd need to go down the right side and pick up some gold to get anywhere close to 100.

What about episodes? Well, in case you haven't noticed episode top20s are REALLY easy to get on NReality. For instance:
Episode 124
Episode 116
Only the top 2 or 3 scores are competitive, and the rest are just cautious completions. Compare to old metanet episodes:
e.g. Episode 39, 26th June 2007
and you notice that while there's still a bit of spread, all the scores are going to be decent near-AGDs and not just bland completions. People cared about episodes in those days.

Conclusion: The NReality leaderboards are still A LOT LESS played than the metanet ones over 3 years. The metanet boards were competitive enough after 3 years. The NReality boards still have a lot of holes in them.

[EddyMataGallos]

Right, allow me to make some comparisons.

Uhm, well, maybe NReality boards are much less competitive as you said...

But I still think that N1.5 levels must be changed all, because as I said, I dont want to have split leaderboards for the same levels in two diferent uncompatible games.... where would you highscore? What would people do?

[jinxed_07]

Something we all have seen to forgotten about, fix the "sliding" sound loop that occurs when you pause the game?

[大見解]

Something we all have seen to forgotten about, fix the "sliding" sound loop that occurs when you pause the game?

ah! that thing!

same goes with lasers and rockets. that just gets annoying.

[CajNatalie]

I shouldn't've voted yes. >.<

Anyone who says 'yes' just hasn't gotten control of the 1.4 ninja yet... I mean, N+ has 'updated' physics, and is just too easy (aside from the fact that someone broke bounce blocks so you can't reliably rebound from them, and you stutter on them, but that's more like artificial difficulty than anything).
N is supposed to be hard, and mastering its controls is all part of the difficulty! I've found that when you get things right, the ninja rewards you with some very awesome maneuvers.
Go ahead and fix things for v2 if you must, but for v1.5, don't do anything. Don't even 'fix' slope stuttering, because I'm guessing the way it was fixed in N+ was to increase gravity, which messes with the awesomeness of a ninja that floats for a second while arcing his highest jumps.

[sayko]

I'd prefer not to make changes in gameplay like fixing glitches, because i know them and i'm happy with them. Now they're a part of the game (there are a lot of glitch based maps, simple challenges, etc.)

But N v1.5 shall make changes in Ned. And userlevels part may be integrated with NReality.

[amc1318]

I think a way to do it would be sorta like what N Reality did. Make it so that each level CAN (but doesn't have to) have edited physics. Then you could add some new levels with the new physics, and also keep the old ones with the original physics. Another option is to have each level have a v1.4 scoreboard, and a v1.5 scoreboard. The v1.4 would keep the existing demos, and the v1.5 would use new ones.

Another thing is user levels. I'm not going to repeat what almost everyone else said, but things like gold delay, double jumps on bounce blocks, and chaingun randomness would ruin a lot of user levels, and possible some existing game levels, too. A way to fix this is to have all NEW user levels automatically have something added onto the end of the script. Then, when playing user levels, the game will see if it has it or not. if it does, then it runs in v1.5 mode. If not, v1.4 mode.

[大見解]

I shouldn't've voted yes. >.<

Anyone who says 'yes' just hasn't gotten control of the 1.4 ninja yet... I mean, N+ has 'updated' physics, and is just too easy (aside from the fact that someone broke bounce blocks so you can't reliably rebound from them, and you stutter on them, but that's more like artificial difficulty than anything).
N is supposed to be hard, and mastering its controls is all part of the difficulty! I've found that when you get things right, the ninja rewards you with some very awesome maneuvers.
Go ahead and fix things for v2 if you must, but for v1.5, don't do anything. Don't even 'fix' slope stuttering, because I'm guessing the way it was fixed in N+ was to increase gravity, which messes with the awesomeness of a ninja that floats for a second while arcing his highest jumps.

The thing is that, people have to not just concentrate on gameplay, but other aspects too. the sound that continues on for rockets and lasers is annoying, the Neditor could have a couple minor fixes to make it more user friendly, and a couple other things.

Also, "Anyone who says 'yes' just hasn't gotten control of the 1.4 ninja yet" is completely false. I'm sure that many of the expert players voted yes.

[vankusss]

Also, "Anyone who says 'yes' just hasn't gotten control of the 1.4 ninja yet" is completely false. I'm sure that many of the expert players voted yes.

And your assumption is wrong, too :P The last thing 'expert' players want is ruining cj's, bb tricks, tcj's and lot of other stuff.
I agree with "Anyone who says 'yes' just hasn't gotten control of the 1.4 ninja yet" because it's completely right.

[lsudny]

It is simply not worth it to do small changes to the physics and the game just to make it play differently, so the coding is more perfect. You risk losing so much.
There has been too much time and effort put into the highscores over the recent half decade, altering the playability of our runs will be like screwing us over. Wait for N2.0 for something so drastic as that and maybe we might be more forgiving.

The little things you call glitches like the stuttering up slopes or the "random" chainguns are all part of the game, they make N unique, causing so much to learn. I'm sure jumping off the killing side of a thwump was never intended, but the fact is it is possible to do, which is just awesome.

For the small changes, do things which won't alter the current demos, or don't do them at all.

EDIT: oh yeah, If you're going to change everything around and lose the thousands of runs, you'd need to replace the old game's levels entirely.

Pretty much agreed. Won't repeat things that others said. I'm with romaniac, plus the classic/fixed mode ingame, and NUMA integration and maybe fusion of N and NReality.

[sayko]

I would be glad if there was added ability to change redefine space button (i play N only with my right hand - left,right keys and up for jump) but every time i die, i have to put the coffee cup on the table and use my left hand to hit the space key.

[-Jol-]

the up key is kill when i play n (because it's easier to press kill than, because i am a speedrunner^^) and i jump with the space key.
but back to the topic, there are two things, which should get changed

it is much better, if you can jump with trapdoor and oneway-plattform like the tiles. and the bugs with trapdoor i would changem like if you put a normal door under a closed door, than you fall, like there wheren't anything

[SomethingHumiliating]

I like the gravity and physics that N v1.4 has right now, but I think that there needs to be some kind of fast fall. It would help in dodging and tricking robots, and possibly create whole new running tactics.