Metanet 0ths Thread

[alsojp27ace]

Awesome 75-1 there macro, I had a feeling there was a better route than the old one.
I've improved 62-2 to the 161 mark with an innov on the right side climb

[Hendor]

Awesome 75-1 there macro, I had a feeling there was a better route than the old one.
I've improved 62-2 to the 161 mark with an innov on the right side climb

Nice job! I had tried that a couple times, but evidently not hard enough.

And yeah, 75-1 is craaazy.

[TheRealOne]

Nice route change, Hendor. I just wanted to write "Taken", but then I saw jp's run, haha. :D

On another note 75-1 is such annoying map because it is a 1400+ frame run, but only the last 150 frames matter at all. I would love to see what could be done in optimal pathing with the left side using CWJs and the like to beat the drone cycle.

Taken. ;)

Niiice! Great route change. Huge time saver. And it is really quite clean to boot! Well done macro.

Awesome 75-1 there macro, I had a feeling there was a better route than the old one.
I've improved 62-2 to the 161 mark with an innov on the right side climb

1000 Frames on the nose. I love the optimization going on here. These three runs have been great.

[EddyMataGallos]

Wow, so many changes while I was gone. Retook 62-2, 75-1 and the old 44-2. Awesome new routes in all of the 3 levels guys, huge chunk of Community TLS gained. I would have expected such gain in 75-1, but definitely not in 62-2, great job.

Question: What was jp's original 0th? I need it to have the full changelog.

[alsojp27ace]

Wow, so many changes while I was gone. Retook 62-2, 75-1 and the old 44-2. Awesome new routes in all of the 3 levels guys, huge chunk of Community TLS gained. I would have expected such gain in 75-1, but definitely not in 62-2, great job.

Question: What was jp's original 0th? I need it to have the full changelog.

Holy crap I didn't realise just how unclean my left side of 44-2 was, I knew this route was faster but didn't think it was by that much.

My original 62-2 was 150.725, I might have another go at it tomorrow.

[ska]

Since this community think tank is going so swimmingly, I'm going to just chill out for a bit and watch the route nuances get ironed out.

This is precisely why I decided to just improve my top-20 on 62-2 and not spend pointless hours improving to about 160.6~7. By the way, I also had the idea of a thwump wj on the right side; however, it was to do it off the far-right vertical thwump, not the horizontal one as Eddy and macro have done. Nice runs, both of you.

Edit: If someone is looking for another potential weakness in Eddy's episode 62 ownage, may I suggest 62-3? The first corner jump can be done way more effectively. (i.e. macrohenry's run.)

[macrohenry]

Woah, Eddy. What a huge lead on 44-2, good job. Retook 75-1, but I guess it's still not safe.

[EddyMataGallos]

Woah, Eddy. What a huge lead on 44-2, good job. Retook 75-1, but I guess it's still not safe.

Thanks man :D Nice job cleaning that, I don't have any more time today, but I'll take a shot later on.

Holy crap I didn't realise just how unclean my left side of 44-2 was, I knew this route was faster but didn't think it was by that much.

My original 62-2 was 150.725, I might have another go at it tomorrow.

Thanks for the info :) Yeah, I also noticed that with this new route, you don't need to fall on the top slope after taking the exit switch, which is where I saved some time too. I must say I expected 130 to be possible when I saw your run originally. I guess this just confirms it :P Although getting the AGD ending is not likely haha.

[ska]

Woah, Eddy. What a huge lead on 44-2, good job. Retook 75-1, but I guess it's still not safe.

nice! (Good luck holding it!)

[TheRealOne]

Wow, so many changes while I was gone. Retook 62-2, 75-1 and the old 44-2. Awesome new routes in all of the 3 levels guys, huge chunk of Community TLS gained. I would have expected such gain in 75-1, but definitely not in 62-2, great job.

Question: What was jp's original 0th? I need it to have the full changelog.

Holy crap I didn't realise just how unclean my left side of 44-2 was, I knew this route was faster but didn't think it was by that much.

My original 62-2 was 150.725, I might have another go at it tomorrow.

Yeah your route change was huge. Honestly it is probably one of the top TLS gains of the year. A fantastic find.

Woah, Eddy. What a huge lead on 44-2, good job. Retook 75-1, but I guess it's still not safe.

Very nice. I think the route on right side of the map is maxed so only jockeying on the left side can be done now. (No one thinks the drone can be beaten to the door from the right, right?)

[alsojp27ace]

Edit: If someone is looking for another potential weakness in Eddy's episode 62 ownage, may I suggest 62-3? The first corner jump can be done way more effectively. (i.e. macrohenry's run.)

Taken, not quite as easy as you made it sound though, Eddy's run is pretty clean besides the start.

This is a slightly faster route, but involves adding another cj and the angle is annoying to get right (I actually lost time in my current run going for it).
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[EddyMataGallos]

Edit: If someone is looking for another potential weakness in Eddy's episode 62 ownage, may I suggest 62-3? The first corner jump can be done way more effectively. (i.e. macrohenry's run.)

Taken, not quite as easy as you made it sound though, Eddy's run is pretty clean besides the start.

This is a slightly faster route, but involves adding another cj and the angle is annoying to get right (I actually lost time in my current run going for it).
$###50111000111000111000111001110001110001110001110011100011100011100011100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001000001000001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000011100011100011100011100111000111000111000111001110001110001110001110000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000100000100000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001110001110001110001110011100011100011100011140111000111000111000111|5^732,60!11^60,60,396,492!12^696,516!12^696,540!12^696,564!12^96,516!12^96,540!12^96,564!6^732,444,3,1,0,2!6^84,300,3,1,0,0!6^372,204,2,1,0,2!6^660,348,3,1,0,0!0^732,180!0^720,180!0^708,180!0^732,324!0^720,324!0^708,324!0^732,468!0^720,468!0^708,468!0^60,468!0^72,468!0^84,468!0^60,324!0^72,324!0^84,324!0^60,180!0^72,180!0^84,180!4^228,570,1!4^564,570,1!3^684,252!3^108,252!0^420,48!0^408,48!0^396,48!0^384,48!0^372,48!0^372,180!0^384,180!0^396,180!0^408,180!0^420,180!0^420,324!0^408,324!0^396,324!0^384,324!0^372,324#962:219222289|18175317|17895697|33554449|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|107374190|107374182|2254438|17896797|17895697|17895697|89478493|17895765|17895697|17895697|89510161|89478485|89478485|89478485|17895701|17895697|69905|35782656|546|0|33558800|139810|35791392|35791394|35791394|35791394|115483170|35792486|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|17965602|17895697|17895697|22876433|17895697|17895697|69905|35782656|35791394|2236962|35791392|35791394|35791394|35791394|107374190|107374182|19293798|18175325|17895697|17895697|89478609|17896789|17895697|17895697|89480465|89478485|89478485|89478485|72701269|107374180|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|35782656|35791394|35791394|35791394|52568610|17895699|17895697|17895697|17895697|89478493|89478485|89478485|89478485|89478485|17895765|17895697|17895697|17895697|17895697|35791665|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|107374306|35791462|35791394|35791394|89478493|89478485|89478485|89478485|17895697|17895697|17895697|17895697|35791409|35791394|35791394|35791394|35791394|107405858|40265318|35791394|35791394|89510690|89478485|1135957|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0#

Nice new route, retaken by using it ;)

Woah, Eddy. What a huge lead on 44-2, good job. Retook 75-1, but I guess it's still not safe.

B-back to my bag :D

EDIT: I'm now under a minute off the Community's Total Level Score!

[ska]

I'm now under a minute off the Community's Total Level Score!

Completely ridiculous...

[macrohenry]

I declare an Ocuppy xela movement. Nothing would be more awesome to see than one of the biggest players ever fall, right?

Took 17-2 and 67-3 to start this thing off.

[ska]

I declare an Ocuppy xela movement. Nothing would be more awesome to see than one of the biggest players ever fall, right?

Took 17-2 and 67-3 to start this thing off.

Very nice work! It seems that, given your initial lead on 17-2 beyond the bottleneck, combined with your ending strategy, that this level still has some room for optimization. Not taking anything away from your 0th, obviously. Nice route change on 67-3; I didn't see that one coming at all. I always thought xaelar's run on that level was tight.

[TheRealOne]

I'm now under a minute off the Community's Total Level Score!

Completely ridiculous...

Easily the most ridiculous statement casually stuck in an Edit...

I think a really interesting graph that we may be able to tease out of all this recent data collection would be the delta between the current grandmaster's TLS and community TLS. I imagine Eddy is closer than anyone has ever been, but trib4l may have been pretty close.

I declare an Ocuppy xela movement. Nothing would be more awesome to see than one of the biggest players ever fall, right?

Took 17-2 and 67-3 to start this thing off.

Nice route change. That is quite the time saver. I have to agree with ska. I had always thought that was one of xaelar's cleanest runs he de-kryXed it by such a margin.

[EddyMataGallos]

I declare an Ocuppy xela movement. Nothing would be more awesome to see than one of the biggest players ever fall, right?

Took 17-2 and 67-3 to start this thing off.

Oh yeah! Operation started. I'm stunned with the 67-3 route change, I too thought it was tight as fuck.

EDIT: On a different note, took 82-1. Thanks to jp for the ending maneuver :) 164 can be achieved with a cleaner run.

EDIT2: 80-2 taken. van's ending was very clean.

[TheRealOne]

I declare an Ocuppy xela movement. Nothing would be more awesome to see than one of the biggest players ever fall, right?

Took 17-2 and 67-3 to start this thing off.

Oh yeah! Operation started. I'm stunned with the 67-3 route change, I too thought it was tight as fuck.

EDIT: On a different note, took 82-1. Thanks to jp for the ending maneuver :) 164 can be achieved with a cleaner run.

EDIT2: 80-2 taken. van's ending was very clean.

Nice runs! Total level score is being demolished in the past few days with all of the route changes and innovations flying around.

[EddyMataGallos]

Thanks man! Took 51-0, finally got the hang of that damn rcj.

And with this, I just passed 72.1k secs of TLS :D As promised to golf, this was mandatory. I'm guessing this will probably be my last TLS milestone, although who knows...

[ska]

I'm now under a minute off the Community's Total Level Score!

Completely ridiculous...

Easily the most ridiculous statement casually stuck in an Edit...

I think a really interesting graph that we may be able to tease out of all this recent data collection would be the delta between the current grandmaster's TLS and community TLS. I imagine Eddy is closer than anyone has ever been, but trib4l may have been pretty close.

I haven't crunched the numbers, but I don't think trib4l — even at his peak — would have come close to 60 seconds between his TGS and the contemporary TLS. My conjecture is based off the fact that there were many levels like 83-3, where specialty players like Sammage would just dominate back in the day. (He was renowned for highscoring maps which utilised complex routes, such as the aforementioned 83-3 and 95-2, 58-3, 78-3 and 83-4; all of which he held 0ths on back in the day.)

Top-20 For Level 83-3 (20 January 2006)

0. [Sammage, 70.400]
1. [AAUdude2447, 57.400]
2. [Deewiant, 54.300]
3. [krusch, 52.025]
4. [clux, 46.850]
5. [Gassa, 45.825]
6. [philyoung, 41.775]
7. [jswainwork, 40.975]
8. [johnny_faneca, 35.050]
9. [mort, 35.025]
10. [Maniak, 34.525]
11. [Demosphen, 34.050]
12. [jepoy, 34.025]
13. [Brett_Sully_, 33.250]
14. [fUjitZOo_, 31.225]
15. [Zero-N, 31.025]
16. [pootify, 29.325]
17. [daricque, 28.600]

Your eyes aren't deceiving you; that is the one and only krusch in 3rd place.

Now, I'm not sure what Trib4l's score for this level was, but we have to assume it was 28.6 or less. 70.4 - 28.6 = 41.8. In one level alone, Trib4l has already lost 2/3 of Eddy's time in one level, if not all of it. Granted, this was about 5 months after trib4l peaked, but I feel my point holds water. Players like Trib4l weren't really completists like they are today with players like Hendor, golf, Eru, Eddy and macro. If they found a level particularly tedious or unenjoyable, they just wouldn't attempt to highscore it, much less try to challenge the 0th. That is why I believe that the general trend over time will reflect this; with more recent grandmasters having a closer TLS to TCS than older ones. The reason I say general trend, is that certain players are an exception to this — notably vankusss.

I must reiterate that this is just speculation; I have no idea if my hypothesis will be backed up by evidence.

[Hendor]

Did some research on your question ska. I think Mr_Lim and xaelar are the only contenders. Bottom-line is that they both had a Community TLS difference of about 220-230 seconds during their peaks. Here is all my work if you/anyone is interested.

Mr_Lim's current TLS is 71268.475. The Community TLS shortly (3 days) after he stopped highscoring is 71415 which gives a 147 second difference, assuming he didn't greatly improve levels after December 2007. I think this assumption is true, but it is also difficult to prove as the last time his TLS was posted in the old metanet thread was three months before he retired. However... 2 monthes after he retired, lat posted that Lim's TLS is 71189, which I initially thought might be a total of every score except 59-0, as 71189 + 84.700 = 71273, 5 seconds greater (?) than the score I posted above. Maybe he just scored 5 more seconds between those time points and lat made that error... So to check this, I loaded an NHigh score from Dec 2007, summed all of Mr_Lim's scores and manually added in the two he never got and the one which had slipped off the board. His TLS in Dec 2007 is 71193.175, so my above assumption is not true and lat's posted score is probably right, the 59-0 thing was a coincidence. Not sure why his score from Dec 2007 is greater than lat's posted score from Feb 2008 though... Only 5 seconds anyways; I trust my number more though. He improved about 80s on his TLS after he retired. Interesting. Anyways, the Community TLS at this time is 71415, so his difference is therefore 223 seconds.

Now xaelar... he didn't stop scoring nearly as quickly as Lim, so it is much more difficult to figure out. It's likely his difference was getting bigger (worse) while he was still actively improving his TLS, so his peak is probably not using his current TLS. Further, TLS records for 2008-2011 are abysmal. TRO's post here in Nov 2011 is the best I could find, which put's xaelar Community TLS difference at 315 seconds. At this point he was still kinda active, but he had barely half the 0ths he once had. This is more than 2 years after his peak (see here), when his community TLS difference was surely greater... I would be quite interested to know what xaelar's TLS was in mid-late 2009. So.... I did the same thing as I did for Lim. Loaded an NHigh file from near xaelar's peak, summed all his scores and added in likely scores for the levels he did not have at that point. Fortunately, most of the scores he didn't get were episodes, so this amounted to just 3 levels: 59-0, 82-0, and 91-4 (TIL xaelar never scored 82-0 or 91-4). I used 84.700, 137.000 and 250.000 (253.800 was 19th at the time). His total after this was approximately 71408.275. The CTLS at this time was 71642.175 (had to add on 00-0, as hacker's had pushed everyone off). His difference is therefore approximately 224. Note that there is a significant margin of error here based on my guesses for 82-0 and 91-4, which he did not submit scores for. Had he submitted xaelar-quality scores for those two levels, his CTLS difference would be about 205 seconds. Amazing what not scoring just one level (91-4) does to your TLS... 10% difference.

Also amazing how close Lim and xaelar are.

[xaelar]

My 91-4 score has (nearly) always been 253.200.

[ska]

My 91-4 score has (nearly) always been 253.200.

Cool story. Occupied your 46-0 with a route change I'd been sitting on since you beat my run ages ago.

Edit: For record keeping purposes, my progression went 177.525, 177.550, 177.700 and 177.800.

[Wolfos]

Players like Trib4l weren't really completists like they are today with players like Hendor, golf, Eru, Eddy and macro. If they found a level particularly tedious or unenjoyable, they just wouldn't attempt to highscore it, much less try to challenge the 0th.

I agree with this observation.

[Hendor]

My 91-4 score has (nearly) always been 253.200.

I don't blame you, that's gotta be my least favorite level; so much randomness. What did you have against 82-0 though?

Cool story. Occupied your 46-0 with a route change I'd been sitting on since you beat my run ages ago.

Nice run! Left side so smooth and pretty now.


Also, check out my TLS score graph: http://www.jamesinman.ca/n/TLS/
I put the TES line on the same chart, with 36000 seconds added so we can see how the two have come together as we have optimized episode scores.