Project: Metagame - Join and contribute!

[Destiny]

you know, i think that this game would work quite well with only one character, thinking about it. And that character can have a mirrors edge style movement - running up walls, but not like sonic, if you get me. And then if the only weapons, or at least, the only portable weapons, would be a pistol (that would reduce manueverability when equipped) and a knife (same again, but not as much). That would effectively keep combat as a theme in the game, but not a priority. What do you think?

[mattk210]

never played mirror's edge, but i can imagine for something like that you'd need a lot of highly authored content -- the level designers would have to define walls and such as runnable and stuff ala Mario galaxy. In a recent metablog post metanet described a similar dilemma, and if they can't do it, i don't think we have a chance at all. Single character is something I can agree with though, although multiple characters is cool I don't know how necessary it is and can imagine it could become an annoyance if badly implemented. I'd go either way though.

[Destiny]

It could work off an idea that a certain action takes place when the character hits a wall, and a different height of wall would determine a different action, A one-block high wall would just be a hop (or just hit it?), a two block-high wall would be jump to grab, and three would be kick to grab, and 4 would be kick to kick to grab. And higher it would just be two kicks and drop back to the floor.

Is that possible?

[mattk210]

I thought you actually meant running on a wall. Your suggestion is more feasible but there are a few problems here

1) this would not be tile-based so working in "blocks" is not possible.
2) gravity is dynamic, so the definition of a "wall" is really very shaky and could change all the time. Also different heights of walls may be scalable or not depending on how strong gravity is at that time.

What you suggest might actually be possible though with some work - we could somehow scan through geometry in front of the player and read a cached height compared to grav force for a predetermined action but I'd actually rather have it all manually controlled - like in N you do the wall jumps yourself to accomplish basically the same thing, and you have a higher level of control. Personally I'm not a fan of grabbing ledges, it usually slows down a game

[Animator]

Let's try and keep this original, and use our own ideas instead of ideas used already on another game.

I think the concepts have been finalized, since the document hasn't been edited in a while.

Coders need to start choosing their language and prepare some physics simulations involving planets, to get used to it. We haven't cleared up whether the game is platformer or planetary, so we need to get that out the way first before we do.

Level Designers, start thinking up designs. Play N if necessary. Go out into nature and visualize. Play Cave Story 3 times, I don't care. Do anything that gets you thinking with ideas and inspirations for level designs for this game. Think up some enemies and maybe even some player physics, so that coders know what they're dealing with.

Artists, we need to decide whether we use vector or raster (pixel), and start drawing up some concepts for the game, now.

Musicians, I suggest practicing in some techno/ambient music, since this game will involve some kind of planet-adventuring type of thing.

Foley, practice making some space-y sounds, grunt sounds, damage sounds, all sounds, mostly.

One more thing, before I forget. Don't hesitate to drop on by to #metagame to get to know your partners and such, and as necessary, you're going to need to elect a leader from your group. Don't choose him by popularity, choose him by intelligence and command, for that is what a leader needs. Someone who won't hesitate to direct people.
Writers, get writing. Make sure the plot is interesting and goes along with the concept behind it.

That is all I have to say.

[Condog]

Vector art. It would look good, and would more easily comply with the rotation system, whereas anything using pixels is likely to become distorted.

[mattk210]

um.. platforming on planets? like mario galaxy, it doesn't need to be one or the other

If someone finds out on IRC what language we're using can they post it here because I'm not very active on IRC and I don't even know who the other active coders are

Also, I'll get working on some phys simulations after exams (a week and a half), whether we know the language or not (if math is not language independent there's something wrong with it)

[Ignate]

Oh, vector. Definitely vector. I think Worms may be a good inspiration for level design, how the ground looks, etc, just saying.
Also, if there's going to be a wall-jumper, and assuming he'd be wall-jumping N-style, how would he do it while the planet's rotating? Wouldn't it be confusing? Or does the planet even rotate at all? Anyways, I'll get sketching when I can.

[Animator]

Vector art. It would look good, and would more easily comply with the rotation system, whereas anything using pixels is likely to become distorted.

Where do people get the idea that pixel rotation is bad? Hell, we could even use the distortion to our advantage (i.e. exploding planets and such). In fact, a good representation on how this game might come out as might be this convenient little flash game that I found long before this project began. Notice the raster element in that game. Is it bad? Not really. We could make the planets vector, no problem. But for all that is good and holy, don't make this all vector.

[blackbelmoral]

love to help
how can i?
have basic computer art/hand drawn art skills, ideas, and coding
this was already answered, probably

[mattk210]

that flash game is not very good (and doesn't have gravity, just a constant attraction towards planet center). You CAN rotate rasters but it just looks worse. Usually in the "big" sprite based games they manually make sprites for each rotation. In the Konjak link you posted, can't you see the jagged edges on that big rotated monster robot thing? It looks fine if you don't pay much attention to it, but why not just use vector and avoid the problem altogether?

Also, based on the style of the concepts so far, it would all work in vector so why complain?

I too wonder about wall jumping, I thought maybe instead we could have "surface jumping" where you just jump away from any surface, be it a wall or a ceiling or a slope. I don't think plaets will rotate fast enough for this to be confusing.

last post: make an account on assembla and tell LittleViking

[smartalco]

and doesn't have gravity, just a constant attraction towards planet center

you just defined gravity pretty much...

also, vector looks so much nicer in little games like this, stick with vector

[Animator]

love to help
how can i?
have basic computer art/hand drawn art skills, ideas, and coding
this was already answered, probably

You answered it yourself.

Also, based on the style of the concepts so far, it would all work in vector so why complain?

Me and LV had a conversation kinda like this before, and it pretty much has my reason why.

* LittleViking ([email protected]) has joined #metagame
* Ozymandias sets mode: +oa LittleViking LittleViking
<&LittleViking> [16:08] <LittleViking> From what I see, rotations in Noitu Love 2 look really fast and brief, so, while they
are distorted, it's not a huge bother. Since the planet game will spend most of its time in odd rotaitons, the distortion
will be a lot more obvious.
<&LittleViking> Still, I think the player will never be rotated at all, and the enemies might never be badly rotated. It
might be interesting for the style to have pixel characters and vector backgrounds.
<Animator> I hope they don't use vector.
<Animator> Exactly.
<Animator> I just linked to the thread a game that is very similar to what we're doing.
<Animator> http://www.onemorelevel.com/game/planet_platformer
<&LittleViking> Yeah. I hope with all our experience in N that we can make a better game than that.
<&LittleViking> Actually, the distortions for pixel in that aren't even end-of-the-world.
<&LittleViking> If you stop and look at things, they're clearly jagged. But it doesn't take away from the experience.
<Animator> Yeah.
<Animator> It's our inner old school gamer.

Also, If we went into vector, I'd be pretty much out a position in this project.

also, vector looks so much nicer in little games like this, stick with vector

Er, small? This project is going to be longer than you think, and added up the total downtime we've been experiencing, we're in it for the long haul. This is by no means small. Also, refer to the previous post.

[smartalco]

also, vector looks so much nicer in little games like this, stick with vector

Er, small? This project is going to be longer than you think, and added up the total downtime we've been experiencing, we're in it for the long haul. This is by no means small. Also, refer to the previous post.

Let me rephrase this:
"Vector looks so much better for games that have an appr. budget of $0.00"

[mattk210]

smartalco: real gravity would increase when you get closer to the core and would add with other forces. For this game it's obviously ok though because there's only one planet

animator: well, commander by the looks of it is a vector artist, so you can't please everyone. You can learn vector, it's not hard.

about enemies and the player: rotation would coast not snap otherwise we'd have major disorientation, so the player would in fact rotate, although not for sustained periods. We may also want to zoom in and out. Enemies would be on the planets so they would obviously maintain the rotation of the planet, and if floating enemies obviously need to maintain their rotation, not point to the camera all the time

I agree entirely that it doesn't look terrible to use raster. It's just that vector is a _better_ solution, and it's more feasible for a community no-budget game, and the majority seems to want it.

[Animator]

You can learn vector, it's not hard.

You think I haven't tried? I have tried. It's not easy, especially when someone lacks a bit of a depth perception.

[smartalco]

You think I haven't tried? I have tried. It's not easy, especially when someone lacks a bit of a depth perception.

I'm not sure how you have tried then. If you use like a pencil tool in flash/illustrator then it is literally just like drawing... (although there are better ways to do it)

[NicNac14]

uhh.. raster would be perfect for me and us good sprite artists.. although I have found a free raster to vector converter on the net.. it may be useful..
I feel like we are going nowhere..
do we have a Idea of whats going on so I can start some sketches?
please inform me of what we are doing.. somebody?
also.. assembla is totally dead..
c'mon lets get some notes and pics on what we are doing..
vector is not necessarily prettier..?
ha.. go to nitrome.com..
best raster site ever!!
i'll start working when there is enough info..
who are the main contributing artists in this? I would gladly like to aquaint myself..
thanx NN14

[mattk210]

if you really can't work with vectors (and really, it's not hard, it's basically just lines and curves), then maybe you can work on hand-drawn concepts, like the concepts in commercial games that are eventually turned into 3D models -- you can still be a source of ideas.

one of the requirements on the wiki for art is the ability to adapt to styles.. I mean us programmers (me at least) will probably need to learn a new language

[Animator]

uhh.. raster would be perfect for me and us good sprite artists.. although I have found a free raster to vector converter on the net.. it may be useful..

Even though I may already have a hunch on what you're going at, elaborate. We could use a combination of spriting and vectors (icons?). I'd do hand-written concepts, but my scanner is dead.

[Destiny]

I vote vector. Also i found the planet platformer game to be a very good visualization of the level style - this has been most helpful as a level designer, so thankyou ^^

On the image style thing i would actually choose raster character, with vector background/level surfaces/everything that isnt a character.

Best of both worlds, right?

[NicNac14]

what I am saying is that you can do raster art the convert to vector therefor using vector but working with raster ( do you catch?)
here os a link.. if you find a better program for this inform me...
http://vectormagic.com/

[Destiny]

wow, i watched the video on that website - that is pretty amazing ^^

[Animator]

what I am saying is that you can do raster art the convert to vector therefor using vector but working with raster ( do you catch?)
here os a link.. if you find a better program for this inform me...
http://vectormagic.com/
what I am saying is that you can do raster art the convert to vector therefor using vector but working with raster ( do you catch?)
here os a link.. if you find a better program for this inform me...
http://vectormagic.com/

I tried it out, it could work.

[mattk210]

yay, happy resolution!

In all seriousness though, tracing like that only really works with a solid color image in the first place, and the way you usually make those is by vector techniques - if you're drawing a raster circle in photoshop, and using this tool to vectorize it, you could very easily just draw a circle in illustrator and eliminate the middle step.

but it's the end product that matters, so if you use this tool to create a good, if slightly inefficient result, great!