Map Pack- Memoir Of the Ancients

[KlanKaos]

Indeed it does. Especially if we can maintain the standard we're trying to reach.
/end final deep thought

Last post for the night. G'night.

[yungerkid]

just to clarify, will chaostar decide the judges? or will the judges be appointed on common consensus?

teehee, we should form a panel of judges to vote for who's going to be on the panel of judges. and to decide who's going to be on *that* panel.... /poke ;D

[KlanKaos]

Ahh, you caught me looking at the forums after I promised to go to bed...

I think a general vote, by all the mappers in the pack, and anyone who wants to and thinks they're qualified can enter the poll. Post here if you want to enter the running for a judge position?

Again, that should probably be left to stew overnight, even though I think it's a great idea.

Anyways. Done now unless yungerkid posts something else I need to talk about.

[yungerkid]

you know, i think we should wait until all the mappers are in the line-up, and then have a single person propose a list. the community makes modifications to the list, and drafts are proposed, until one is agreed upon by almost all of the people in the pack, and certainly almost all of the more experienced mappers. that's what i would do. /last post; i've been doing this when i should have been playing Halo, dangit. such procrastination, tsk tsk.

[KlanKaos]

That sounds so bureaucratic 0.0

But it does make sense. I like it. How would we decide who gets to make the initial list? Let me guess - another vote. =P And now I really need to go to bed, I have hockey tomorrow early and you have been keeping me up past my bedtime. You bastard. =)

[ska]

Does this map meet your stringent quality guidelines?

[keninja]

I cordially accept your offer!
I would like to submit this map instead though..
http://nmaps.net/156796

[gr_8]

just realised im a part of this, i thought i wouldn't have been accepted.
anyway, could you post in this thread when you want the maps in, because at the minute i don't know if im meant to be making or just waiting.

[ChaoStar]

I just read the entire thread and played all the maps so far. I would like to make some comments. (56k warning)

• If there's an age limit, my oldest map (not the first I uploaded to NUMA) was posted on 2/22/06 (that's 22/2/06 for the non-Americans), so I think I'm good in that respect. I'm still a D-List neditor.
• I interpreted the first post to mean that we would be making this pack for the future neditors, to show them what maps were like at this time. Sort of like a time capsule. However, everyone seems to think that this is going to be made by older neditors for the current ones. I don't know what ChaoStar means, just throwing my 2 cents in.
• While I'm on the topic of "age," I think that all entrants be put to the test that the newer mapmakers are being put to. Quantity ≠ Quality. Okay, maybe not all, but most. Perhaps all Dronie winners could be exempt, or something like that.
• Going over the list at this point, roughly 1/7 of the participants I didn't recognize. This is probably because I usually don't pay attention to that sort of thing.
• You didn't invite gloomp‽
• Some good neditors made forum accounts just for this pack. That's a good sign.
• I think that the episodes should be oldest first. I understand that this isn't fair, but look at the alternatives. Ordering them by difficulty is too complicated, because what is difficult to one person may not be difficult to another. Ordering them by quality is not a good idea either, because you would want to stop playing if the pack got progressively worse.

That's all for now. Expect some new potential maps from me soon.

That's what I intended. Ancient means WE will be ancient to the future users.

[ChaoStar]

Okay. Some things should be said.

First off, I don't think you should just be able to submit maps to NUMA with the tag moa to make it a Memoir map. I think it should be a serious mappack, and everyone should submit their five maps as attachments in the thread (or PM them to ChaoStar) and then the rest of the pack mappers should playtest and give feedback, and then the original author will tweak, revise, possibly the same process again, then NOT SUBMIT TO NUMA. This should be a mappack where maybe one map from every author is submitted as a taster and people have to download the rest of the pack and play it as a whole.

Secondly, I got the idea that this pack was being made by the authors of today for the authors of tomorrow. As in, eventually we will be ancient, and this is for the mappers of that time to look at and go, 'Hey, there's some cool stuff by some authors from a long time ago in there'. But I do believe quality should be sorely tested. I'd say, in all honesty, that my best maps are probably good enough for this, but I know for a fact that I've created some shit that I would not want included in a mappack. So this should be a heavily playtested, and it should be a lengthy project, not just something where everyone whips off five maps then is done.

That's my two cents. I want it to be great. That's basically what those two things will lead to.

EDIT:

EDIT- KlanKaos is definitely in.

Thank you.

Aye. That's what I have in mind. 100 authors of today, 500 maps total. The absolute BEST we can do.

[ChaoStar]

i agree with kaos's first statement. i no longer think it should be based on age. instead, it should be based on the quality of the maps submitted to the pack. kaos, you are correct in saying that everyone who submits to this pack will be canonized as ancients depending on how well remembered this pack is. i would like to add that because of that, we should go for as high quality a pack as possible, both so that the pack can be well remembered, and so that we don't indellibly print an unworthy mark on history. to repeat, we should judge the maps, and we should judge them on quality. we should judge them by a high standard. i think that maybe a quarter of the people on that list are probably not going to produce good enough maps for the pack. i don't want to hurt any feelings, but again, we must preserve the best, if that is truly our goal (which it seems to me to be)

on an unrelated note, i can vouch for minion_of_pi and erik_player. both demonstrate that age is almost completely irrelevant to quality.

again, exactly what I was trying to do.

[Rule]

I'm want to do a little request, because you said we could also add some extra unplayable levels.
Could this one be in the pack? That would be cool.

[ChaoStar]

Chaostar, can i make a new thread for the playtesting, and judging of the maps?
I'm afraid this'll get crowded quick.
But feedback guys!
EDIT: Damn, Spent three hours on a concept map and it's gone!!!

I'll do that later, we still need ALL the authors we can get, we haven't reached 50 yet...

but, If you want I could make a discussion post for this, and reserve this for recruiting...

EDIT- the Prize idea would be interesting, do we have any willing judges?

[RandomDigits]

I'm in.

I agree that this should be the absolute best maps we can make rather than just average maps by currently active authors.

Now. my maps are often lacking in aesthetics, so I might need help with that.
Must all the maps be from specific authors, only being playtested by others or can collabs be a part of this?

[UndeadPie]

Yeah I would love (and be honored) to be part of this :D
I will think about a map :p

[ChaoStar]

RandomDigits: I think maybe playtesters should be of varying N-playing talent. Because if, say Meta_Ing can beat a map doesn't mean I can. That could be very frustrating for worse players. (the general public)

This quote was said in the other thread, and as the other thread is for playtesting I though id reply here. The levels can not be impossibly hard, I know I would b one of the 1st ones to quit playing the pack when it was getting hard. Imagine if the metanet levels were really hard, no one wouldbother trying to beat them apart from a few diehard fans. But as this mappack is directed at the next generation of mappers who in our eyes will be useless noobs (no offence meant), making this mappack so hard will be likeshooting our selves in the foot, or more like shooting our demographic

~BE_nSPIRED

more like, The levels will start in 0-0 and continue in difficulty, so the players improve until they can finish the pack.

[bufar]

This is truly a community project, as it is seemingly being hashed out by the community. That being said, it seems like a handful of people decided everything while I was asleep and now there's a somewhat confusing judging system for the potential maps. Should I post my maps or hold off until everything is decided?

My two cents:
I like the idea of judging (as I previously stated). However, I have no idea what I have to do to be eligible to have my maps judged now. Can't there be just a panel of judges who decide what's in and what's out?

Also, I'm going on vacation for a week. I hope that everything is worked out by then.

[ChaoStar]

This is truly a community project, as it is seemingly being hashed out by the community. That being said, it seems like a handful of people decided everything while I was asleep and now there's a somewhat confusing judging system for the potential maps. Should I post my maps or hold off until everything is decided?

My two cents:
I like the idea of judging (as I previously stated). However, I have no idea what I have to do to be eligible to have my maps judged now. Can't there be just a panel of judges who decide what's in and what's out?

Also, I'm going on vacation for a week. I hope that everything is worked out by then.

I saw it. I am currently trying to clear up the rules. basically, people have to ask a fellow mapmaker if it's good, and if they say "sure" or something like that, the Map goes to the judging platform, where a playtester(s) test the map for completion, and IF they can obtain an AGD, it passes to the judges, who judge it for aesthetics, gameplay, and length.

EDIT- have a nice vacation.

[otters~1]

I'm curious as to which veteran mappers you've invited. You should post a list or something so we can make sure you didn't miss anyone.

[ChaoStar]

I forgot, but I've invited most of the ones I know, like sendy, atob, AMLT, toasters, and such and such.
EDIT- I am now closing this thread off to just sign ups, if you have question, comments, suggestions, or gripes, please post on the discussion thread

[RandomDigits]

Should the fellow mapmakers who playtest our maps also be in the pack?

[ChaoStar]

most likely.

[otters~1]

Should the fellow mapmakers who playtest our maps also be in the pack?

I've signed up to judge, playtest and map for this, so I hope so.

EDIT: Sorry! No need to go all caps-locksy on me.

[ChaoStar]

I forgot, but I've invited most of the ones I know, like sendy, atob, AMLT, toasters, and such and such.
EDIT- I am now closing this thread off to just sign ups, if you have question, comments, suggestions, or gripes, please post on the discussion thread

AHEM.

[Turtle]

I'm kinda a veteran mapmaker, if summer of 2005 counts for anything.
I don't think this will be an amazing representation of the 'old' mappers of Numa, because so many of these people are far newer to Numa than others, but sure, I'll join.