Do you believe in God(s)?

Debate serious and interesting topics, rant about politics or pop culture, or otherwise converse in essay form about your opinions. The rules of conduct here are a little stricter.
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Postby Twistkill » 2009.02.06 (22:45)

Snuggletummy wrote:I personally don't have any religion, but I do believe in God, and I also believe in Evolution. Yep, I'm a strange one.
This is possible because creationism and evolution are not mutually exclusive, similar to how religion and science, in general, are not completely opposed to each other. Why do you think there are theistic scientists?

Facts, evidence, etc. are all used against religion in order to claim it as an organized meeting of people that have blind faith in something we can't see or hear or touch. This is why you must experience it for yourself. Once you experience the lifestyle of being a follower of God and understanding what it's like, then you will notice how God reveals himself to you. He does so in other methods rather than simply showing up at your doorstep and saying "HERE I AM!". He wouldn't be much of a deity if he was available for study and exposure with our natural senses.

Believe me, even though it can't happen, it would be awesome if Jesus showed up tomorrow afternoon and wanted to play football. If you really require that level of proof, you're far too skeptical to believe much of anything.
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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2009.02.07 (04:09)

Twistkill wrote:Believe me, even though it can't happen, it would be awesome if Jesus showed up tomorrow afternoon and wanted to play football. If you really require that level of proof, you're far too skeptical to believe much of anything.
That level of proof? You mean, any?
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Postby Twistkill » 2009.02.07 (19:27)

Tsukatu wrote:
Twistkill wrote:Believe me, even though it can't happen, it would be awesome if Jesus showed up tomorrow afternoon and wanted to play football. If you really require that level of proof, you're far too skeptical to believe much of anything.
That level of proof? You mean, any?
I've already addressed why the proof can't be shown to people outside of the faith. You're right, Tsukatu, I can't literally show you God like I can show you any other object. He is a spiritual deity, not a regular noun.

All of the religion vs science arguments are more stale than a pack of Timbits that have been left out for 2 weeks. I won't bother trying to convince anyone here otherwise if after the first few attempts of sharing opinions we constantly disagree with one another. I've tried sharing, done my job, and now it's time to move on. I'm not one of the hardcore fundamentalist religious nutjobs who condemn people (that's not what is supposed to be done in the first place), so go ahead and have fun. Live your life however you want to live it.
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Postby Twistkill » 2009.02.07 (19:37)

DemonzLunchBreak wrote:What is it with you people and saying "I'm not arguing anymore" after presenting an argument?
Because I don't feel like continuing something that I know has already been addressed before and has not even slightly changed anyone's perspective. Do you believe that any discussion the people of the N community have had on this subject in the past 5 years that it's been around advances anywhere, at all? The same arguments are presented, the same conclusions are made, the thread dies and is either resurrected or recreated. I have yet to see someone converted to Christianity or vice-versa on an internet forum because of the freedom anonymity provides and the easily deceptive nature of it. All it ever boils down to is "God exists, you just can't understand why" and "God doesn't exist, you have no evidence" and most likely the only good thing that comes out of it is an increased understanding of the English language.
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Postby Tanner » 2009.02.07 (19:40)

Twistkill wrote:All of the religion vs science arguments are more stale than a pack of Timbits that have been left out for 2 weeks. I won't bother trying to convince anyone here otherwise if after the first few attempts of sharing opinions we constantly disagree with one another. I've tried sharing, done my job, and now it's time to move on. I'm not one of the hardcore fundamentalist religious nutjobs who condemn people (that's not what is supposed to be done in the first place), so go ahead and have fun. Live your life however you want to live it.
If you really believe in Christianity and loved me like the Bible says you should, you'd do a lot more to keep me from spending an eternity in hell. "Go and make disciples of all men," not "Go and try to make disciples of all men and if they don't wanna, well, what can you do?"

That said, awesome Canadian food reference. :D
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Postby Twistkill » 2009.02.07 (19:44)

rennaT wrote:If you really believe in Christianity and loved me like the Bible says you should, you'd do a lot more to keep me from spending an eternity in hell. "Go and make disciples of all men," not "Go and try to make disciples of all men and if they don't wanna, well, what can you do?"

That said, awesome Canadian food reference. :D
Haha, you're right, but I don't have the education, charisma, nor the influence to actually accomplish that task. I hardly read the bible and I don't pray as often as I should simply out of laziness. God has a task for everyone to complete, and until he really gives me the courage and the strength to convert someone, even if it's only one person, I know that it's not my job.

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DemonzLunchBreak wrote:Twistkill:
Right, I get that part. This is a stale conversation. However, that doesn't mean you can be like "You're actually wrong, and I'm done talking about this." It's preferable to just say "I'm done with this conversation, it's getting repetitive."

In all fairness, though, you probably didn't deserve any reprimand for that post. I may have overreacted a bit.
Yeah... that's not really what I meant. I never said or implied "you're wrong, and I'm done talking about this", I'm just bored of repeating the same thing ad infinitum.
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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2009.02.07 (20:13)

Twistkill wrote:
DemonzLunchBreak wrote:What is it with you people and saying "I'm not arguing anymore" after presenting an argument?
Because I don't feel like continuing something that I know has already been addressed before and has not even slightly changed anyone's perspective. Do you believe that any discussion the people of the N community have had on this subject in the past 5 years that it's been around advances anywhere, at all? The same arguments are presented, the same conclusions are made, the thread dies and is either resurrected or recreated. I have yet to see someone converted to Christianity or vice-versa on an internet forum because of the freedom anonymity provides and the easily deceptive nature of it. All it ever boils down to is "God exists, you just can't understand why" and "God doesn't exist, you have no evidence" and most likely the only good thing that comes out of it is an increased understanding of the English language.
Hasn't changed anyone's perspective? My view of religion in general, specific religions, various life philosophies, science, what have you, have all gone through some major overhauls in the years I've been ranting about it like an adolescent male nerd with too much time on his hands. I don't have any place in my life other than outlets like online forums to go as deep and thorough as I do (arguing with hobos just isn't the same), and that's helped tremendously to flesh out my stance on these issues. Sure, I've stayed pretty solidly on the atheistic side of things, but I've wandered from complete agnosticism to obnoxious antitheism, and my opinion on the religion vs science issue has oscillated more than an FM signal (which takes talent, and a certain degree of schizophrenia).
If nothing else, online forums have a constant influx of new people (often as older members leave), so keeping a conversation going can give new insights.
*shrug*
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Postby Tanner » 2009.02.07 (20:19)

I'm a big fan of process theology. Thoughts on that, anyone?
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Postby Martyr » 2009.02.22 (05:02)

Snuggletummy wrote:I personally don't have any religion, but I do believe in God, and I also believe in Evolution. Yep, I'm a strange one.
Kinda like me, and as i said before--
Me wrote:I Have a weird set of belief's. I believe the bible was a past day Aesop's Fables blown out of proportion. people didn't follow the fables so they added a god figure to add to the fear, but made him omnicent. I believe in a god, yes, but also evolution. I think adam and eve was a lesson against going against general good will. The Bible was written for moral, not as a life guide as all New born christians such as my aunt seem. And if you're not a new born and you die, you're not going to hell. What i hate about Live by the bible Christians [LbtB™] is that they take all their fears from the bible, one being gays. Back in 0 (wayy back when the Lordy Christ was birthed in a manger next to a real live ass), gay was not okay, but now it is. Including blacks, sex before marriage, and all that good stuff you LbtB™'s go to church to reconcile. So by me, Gay is okay.
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Postby Amadeus » 2009.02.22 (05:39)

DemonzLunchBreak wrote:Evolution and theism are not mutually exclusive, Radium. It's possible for a person to believe (consistently) that God created the universe so that things would develop in a certain way. Of course, this means God's a dick, but that's a separate issue.

Personally, I am a strong atheist toward some gods, such as the Christian God or Zeus. I am a weak atheist towards pantheistic/deist gods. Strong atheism is the belief that God (or whatever gods the belief is being applied to) do not exist. Weak atheism is the belief that evidence is not conclusive one way or the other, and so it is best to withhold belief.
Strong Atheist=Atheism
Weak Atheist=angnoticism
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Postby Amadeus » 2009.02.23 (07:35)

DemonzLunchBreak wrote:*sigh*

Really? You really want to have this discussion? This thang has been beaten to death around here. I'll show you why I don't like the definitions that you're using, but I really don't want to do it. Definitions are ultimately arbitrary, so unless this is something you really, really want to talk about, I'm just gonna leave this. Also, you need to try to explain things a little bit more, ganteka. Give reasons for things you say. I'll like your posts a lot more when that happens.
The definition of agnosticism is what is put previously as 'weak atheism', or believing there is not enough conclusive evidence to prove or disprove the existence of a higher deity.
I don't see why a debate and explanation has to be given for such
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Postby boonie92 » 2009.02.23 (08:27)

i agree completely with twistkill

i am a christian and though i dont jump around singing and reading the bible all the time etc i still believe.

i have seen for myself changes in people once they have taken up being a christian and looking at life from a different perspective.
All you athiests keep on challenging the reality of god, i will not try and change your mind. but you will not fully understand until you have experienced or seen the reactions for yourself...
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Postby Nonoke » 2009.02.23 (13:00)

I'm an Athiest. All of the stories about gods and mystical beings are just too unbelievable for me.

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Postby Radium » 2009.02.23 (15:08)

boonie92 wrote: but you will not fully understand until you have experienced or seen the reactions for yourself...

Ehh.. wha?
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Postby Amadeus » 2009.02.23 (15:42)

Radium wrote:
boonie92 wrote: but you will not fully understand until you have experienced or seen the reactions for yourself...

Ehh.. wha?

Bahahaha
...not to you, Radium
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Postby isaacx » 2009.02.27 (03:31)

rennaT wrote: If you really believe in Christianity and loved me like the Bible says you should, you'd do a lot more to keep me from spending an eternity in hell. "Go and make disciples of all men," not "Go and try to make disciples of all men and if they don't wanna, well, what can you do?"
Yeah that's why Jesus said
"If no one welcomes you or listens to your words, as you leave that house or town, shake its dust off your feet. I tell you with certainty, it will be more bearable for the region of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town!" Matthew 10:14,15

If no one accept the teaching of of Christianity, or ignore/deny that Jesus is god, than you should just leave them. That's exactly why later on after Jesus leave his Apostles and goes back to his Father, the teachers go on to accept the Gentiles as Christians instead. Now, look where the Jews are now, and where the Christians. There will always be someone willing to accept Jesus. If you tell preach the good news (the gospel) to someone, and they dont accept it as the truth, their blood is on their own heads. Believe me, hell is definitely not a good place to go as described in the book 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese, and Heaven is a good place to go to as described in 90 Minutes in Heaven by Don Piper.
boonie92 wrote:but you will not fully understand until you have experienced or seen the reactions for yourself...
an example of the reactions i've seen can happen to real believers at any true annointed evangalist of the Lord, examples are Benny Hinn, Joyce Myers, Kenneth Copeland, Debbie Rich, just to name a few, a reaction can be read in Acts 2:1-41 and the fortelling in Joel 2:28-32

Some rewards are told in Malachi 3:6-12. There are many more reactions, rewards and conseqences explained in depth, but even most Christians don't believe in the full extent of the Bible as the scriptures may be from the old Testament and etc. It's hard to do this a 11 at night under my covers trying to sleep. I do read my Bible and pray and meditate on the word not as long as im supposed to as a true believer in Christ, but i know what i do
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Postby isaacx » 2009.02.27 (03:53)

Long Ago - Jews / Isrealites back then had many more people than the Christians had, a lot of the world population i believe
Now - Christianity is the most widely believed faith now and Jews make up a really small part of the poputation nowadays
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Postby matonen » 2009.02.27 (06:23)

I do believe in god.

I mean, there has to be somebody/something that started this world.

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Postby Amadeus » 2009.02.27 (06:34)

isaacx wrote:Long Ago - Jews / Isrealites back then had many more people than the Christians had, a lot of the world population i believe
Now - Christianity is the most widely believed faith now and Jews make up a really small part of the poputation nowadays
Islam is the largest religion.
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Postby SlappyMcGee » 2009.02.27 (06:43)

So... how did you guys start being Christian/whatever? Because my understanding of a system of beliefs lead me to think that you either have it forced down your throats while you are young, and then assume it to be self-evident once you've grown up, or you've had some personal experience with God himself, right? Because I can't understand what would drive you to believe something exactly the same as someone else would arbitrarily believe.

Like, I can believe in God for whatever reason, and yet, I can still not go out of my way to find a faith that just happens to fit with every single thing that I believe. Seems like there should be more disparity between people's faiths unless it's a handed-down thing.
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Postby 乳头的早餐谷物 » 2009.02.27 (07:26)

DemonzLunchBreak wrote:
matonen wrote:I do believe in god.

I mean, there has to be somebody/something that started this world.
This is an example of a poorly-formed argument. Give reasons. Why must somebody/something have started the world? How do you know that that "being" is something properly called "god"?
Mmmhmm.

You believe in God because the world (or the universe) requires a creator. However, your god must not require a creator, or else we're not getting anywhere. So, if God doesn't require a creator, why can't the same apply to the world? What's more acceptable about God not requiring a creator than the universe not requiring a creator?
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Postby matonen » 2009.02.27 (10:54)

I dont know!

Youre giving me a headache.

Okay so I THINK There should be a creator to this world. No, im not thinking it further than that.

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Postby Atilla » 2009.02.27 (12:00)

ganteka wrote:
isaacx wrote:Long Ago - Jews / Isrealites back then had many more people than the Christians had, a lot of the world population i believe
Now - Christianity is the most widely believed faith now and Jews make up a really small part of the poputation nowadays
Islam is the largest religion.
Regardless of which religion is the largest, no religious affiliation forms a majority - there will always be more people who disagree with your religious beliefs than agree with them. Therefore, if you're going for the truth-by-popularity approach, you must conclude that everyone is wrong.

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Postby Tanner » 2009.02.27 (15:18)

isaacx wrote:
rennaT wrote: If you really believe in Christianity and loved me like the Bible says you should, you'd do a lot more to keep me from spending an eternity in hell. "Go and make disciples of all men," not "Go and try to make disciples of all men and if they don't wanna, well, what can you do?"
Yeah that's why Jesus said
"If no one welcomes you or listens to your words, as you leave that house or town, shake its dust off your feet. I tell you with certainty, it will be more bearable for the region of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town!" Matthew 10:14,15
Wow, hey, good verse find. I was pretty comfortable in that opinion. Still, the first part of the verse implies that you've already tried your hardest to convert said town. I suppose what your hardest is between you and your God.
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Postby Radium » 2009.02.27 (15:44)

SlappyMcGee wrote:So... how did you guys start being Christian/whatever? Because my understanding of a system of beliefs lead me to think that you either have it forced down your throats while you are young, and then assume it to be self-evident once you've grown up.

Bahahaha. QFE'd
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