Cannabis

Debate serious and interesting topics, rant about politics or pop culture, or otherwise converse in essay form about your opinions. The rules of conduct here are a little stricter.
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Postby Brocerius » 2009.04.01 (11:58)

To all of you talking of the freedom of marijuana - it is, to a degree. There are many parts of the world where it grows wild, and in abundance. If it was legalized in america, there is no doubt that it would start growing wild and in abundance there too, since people would plant more, and more openly.

However, if you want the best stuff, you are still going to have to pay for it. Think 'Pineapple Express'.

Analogy; you can grow carrots, but you may prefer the ease and security (in terms of quality and healthiness) of buying them in the local shop.
Bigblargh wrote:More questions.
If cannabis was legalized, d you think the use of other drugs would increase? Is there any validity to the "gateway drug" theory? Would legalization make that worse?
Marijuana may not be a gateway drug, per say, but it is certianly true that people who smoke marijuana are more likely to move onto harder drugs than people who dont, and that marijuana is very commonly the first drug a future addict will take. If you, like me, think this constitutes a gateway drug then take it up with your semantics.

What i mean to say is this; if marijuana was legalized, more people might try it and find they have a penchant for drugs. I could give you anecdotal evidence of this until the cows return from space.



I do believe marijuana should be legalized, though i dont believe anyone should use it, ever.
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Postby jean-luc » 2009.04.06 (03:33)

I haven't been around in a while, so I'll reply en-masse. Sorry this is so long, but I think multiple posts would be more annoying.
rennaT wrote:
kai wrote:first i want to say that im a little iffy on making it legal. i smoke pot. alot in fact. but who will get the rights to it if its legalized? most likely the tobacco industries, and THATS my biggest fear. maybe if they legalize growing it as well i could get behind that. my birth mom says thats what they're gonna do in california soon, make it lega to grow, smoke and buy with a medical mary jane card (which is easy to get). i just dont want to see it get raped by the tobacco industries with thier cyanide filters and all that other crap.

i agree that certain rules and guidelines should apply, like driving and using heavy machinery would have limits/prohibited to do so while high. and as for weed giving you cancer thats absolutey bogus. maybe the tobacco leaf people use to wrap it up with (eg. vanilla dutch master.... my personal favorite. i hate those flavored wraps, i want to taste the weed not the cigar and vanilla dutches are like blunt-lite) but other then that it just knocks off braincells... but hey so does booze and its legal. also kills you liver and kidneys >_> .

i think the legal age should be 18, or maybe 16 with parental consent. 21? no fucking way. you can give yourself cancer but not the munchies? you can go to war but you cant go to mars? bull. and as for smoking on the job well, with manual and repetitive labor i found that a little puff to get a small buzz helps a loooooot to get thru and still do a good job.... helps the time pass quicker and stress level stay ok. im not saying get blazed out ur mind but hit it and quit it and light that sucker up later after work.

but the bottom line is YOU SHOULDNT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT AT ALL!!! it was put on this earth for everyone ffs, to smoke and ease the stress of our lives. a plant to bring together nations. ... that last part was quoted from the bible, btw. dont have my Pot Culture book with me so i cant tell you exactly which part but it does say it, and gets mentioned a few times more. hell the number one stoner rule is to always share ffs... unless you only have enough for yourself.
Things like this post are the reason that marijuana has such a stigma attached to it.
I completely agree with Tanner, but I'll expand upon it a bit. People have an impression that people that smoke pot are slackers, not that intelligent, etc. this post forwards that. If you want to argue for the legalization of marijuana, you need to do so in a clear, academic, and intelligent manner. One of the key ways people will judge you, particularly in this context, is in the mechanics of your writing. Failing to obey the technical rules of written English, such as capitalizing "I" and the beginnings of sentences, will result in people automatically judging you as less intelligent, less motivated, and/or less mature. Please spellcheck prior to posting, the lack of apostrophes in words like "shouldn't" and "I'm" also bodes poorly for people's impressions of you. Please never use more than one exclamation mark, and please do not use all-caps for emphasis; this forum provides mechanics for emphasizing text like bold and italic, and using these will increase the impact of your writing, while using all-caps will make it look amateur.
Yes, writing in a manner that is technically correct may seem difficult, annoying, or too institutional, but it comes with numerous advantages. When your writing is technically correct, people will consider you more intelligent and more mature, and they will take you and your ideas more seriously.
DemonzLunchBreak wrote:As far as smoking goes, there are already alternatives. There's the typical brownie, which removes all the negative side effects of smoking. The problem with oral consumption is that the correct dose is more difficult to determine and so it is easy to produce effects that are too strong or too weak. The preferred method of consumption, at least in a medical context, would be vaporization. Vaporization eliminates the titration problems with oral doses and the smoke inhalation problem with smoking. Really, the only downside is that vaporizers are expensive, but I don't see how that should enter the conversation when all we're discussing is whether the plant has beneficial medical properties or not.
Is THC processed in to the blood effectively when introduced directly at the stomach, as in a capsule? This would seem the most logical method of insertion, but if there's an issue with titration in the mouth than that would certainly be present in the stomach...
Brocerius wrote: Marijuana may not be a gateway drug, per say, but it is certianly true that people who smoke marijuana are more likely to move onto harder drugs than people who dont, and that marijuana is very commonly the first drug a future addict will take. If you, like me, think this constitutes a gateway drug then take it up with your semantics.
While the correlation does exist, I've always been skeptical of the causality on this. I doubt marijuana makes people more likely to use drugs, I think people that use drugs are more likely to start out using marijuana. If that makes any sense.
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Postby SlappyMcGee » 2009.04.07 (18:09)

Jean-Luc wrote:While the correlation does exist, I've always been skeptical of the causality on this. I doubt marijuana makes people more likely to use drugs, I think people that use drugs are more likely to start out using marijuana. If that makes any sense.
I agree with that entirely, with the addition that it is a gateway drug only in that it it is probably the first drug you will ever take. And again, people willing to do weed recreationally in spite of its legal status probably have very little respect for the law to begin with. On the flipside, with the legalization of Marijuana, the only two markets that should be opened up to weed would be :

A) People who followed the law previously, because it was just -the law-, and therefore will probably continue to follow the laws against harder drugs,
or
B) People who are doing marijuana medicinally, where very few other drugs have many positive medicinal effects.
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Postby Brocerius » 2009.04.07 (20:58)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... tnG=Search

According to this, I think cannabis epitomises a gateway drug. You don't get chemically addicted, sure. You get addicted to the feeling. And soon enough that feeling isn't enough for you.

Of course, there are many people in this world who will be content with cannabis. Many people will smoke it happily throughout there lives (and hell, many people will be content without cannabis). But there are many for whom cannabis will be a gateway drug, and if cannabis is once a gateway drug, cannabis is a gateway drug. The more times it occurs, the more it compounds the fact. It has happened many times so far, and will happen many times still.


Slappy, how does what you said not constitute a gateway drug, unless you can be sure that those people would have gone on to try other drugs even if they had never been introduced to cannabis? (And I'm sorry to hand you a loaded question, but I believe that very often those people wouldn't go onto other drugs otherwise. They simply wouldn't know that they were going to like the experience.)


And jean-luc, eating cannabis is certainly effective (extremely effective), and exact doses are less important than the fact of the dose itself. What I mean is, don't over-think it. The people taking the drug certainly won't.
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Postby Tanner » 2009.04.07 (22:33)

Brocerius wrote:And jean-luc, eating cannabis is certainly effective (extremely effective), and exact doses are less important than the fact of the dose itself. What I mean is, don't over-think it. The people taking the drug certainly won't.
Posts like this are exactly why well-meaning conservatives have such a stigma attached to them. It's extremely ignorant to think that there are no consciencious marijuana users. You can tell that that's not true just by reading this thread all the way through.
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Postby Brocerius » 2009.04.07 (23:06)

rennaT wrote:
Brocerius wrote:And jean-luc, eating cannabis is certainly effective (extremely effective), and exact doses are less important than the fact of the dose itself. What I mean is, don't over-think it. The people taking the drug certainly won't.
Posts like this are exactly why well-meaning conservatives have such a stigma attached to them. It's extremely ignorant to think that there are no consciencious marijuana users. You can tell that that's not true just by reading this thread all the way through.
I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not (beyond the obvious), but I'm going to respond genuinely. I'm, not sure if 'conscientious' is something you can really apply to marijuana users - not because it is necessarily a stupid thing to do, but because it isn't something you really need to take a great deal of care about. No fear of lethal overdose, and little fear of... social overdose, if you know what I mean.

And I am no conservative.
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Postby blue_tetris » 2009.04.08 (01:04)

rennaT wrote:
Brocerius wrote:And jean-luc, eating cannabis is certainly effective (extremely effective), and exact doses are less important than the fact of the dose itself. What I mean is, don't over-think it. The people taking the drug certainly won't.
Posts like this are exactly why well-meaning conservatives have such a stigma attached to them. It's extremely ignorant to think that there are no consciencious marijuana users. You can tell that that's not true just by reading this thread all the way through.
Real, non-Internet conservatives don't think there's any good usage for marijuana. And they really hate gays. They're not at all mild.
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Postby KinGAleX » 2009.04.08 (06:59)

DemonzLunchBreak wrote:Also, I would suggest that individuals not admit to any illegal activity. It's kind of against the rules.
Just on a tangent, admitting to illegal activity can't get you charged. Rock and roll legends don't get done for admitting to illegal drug possession in an autobiography. You can talk about committing murder on your blog, if you like. Sure, it might look suspicious, but it's not evidence that you have killed someone. One person saying that they are doing or have done something illegal is not enough to get you in trouble.
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Postby Lachesis » 2009.04.08 (20:52)

From Wikipedia:
There has never been a documented human fatality from overdosing on marijuana.
One estimate of Cannabis's LD50 for humans indicates that about 1500 pounds of marijuana would have to be smoked within 15 minutes.[14] This estimate is supported by studies which indicate that the effective dose of THC is at least 1000 times lower than the estimated lethal dose (a "safety ratio" of 1000:1). This is much higher than alcohol (safety ratio of 10), cocaine (15), or heroin (6).
Cannabis is not dangerous at all as you can see.
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Postby Atilla » 2009.04.09 (02:37)

Saying it's not dangerous at all just because it's difficult to lethally overdose is going a bit far. Smoking (the regular tobacco kind, that is) gives you lung cancer and heart disease and so on, even though you're not overdosing on nicotine. Also alcohol results in deaths from drink driving even when people are only a bit tipsy.

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Postby jean-luc » 2009.04.10 (22:01)

Atilla wrote:Saying it's not dangerous at all just because it's difficult to lethally overdose is going a bit far. Smoking (the regular tobacco kind, that is) gives you lung cancer and heart disease and so on, even though you're not overdosing on nicotine. Also alcohol results in deaths from drink driving even when people are only a bit tipsy.
right, and the concern of drunk driving (is calling it "drink driving" a british english thing or something? it sounds bizarre. everyone says "drunk driving" around here) is very much present with marijuana. the Oregon Department of Transportation (ODOT) has been running some ad campaigns on how "buzzed driving" due to substances other than alcohol is just as illegal and dangerous as drunk driving, and a DUI/DWI conviction in the majority of (possibly all) states does not require a blood alcohol measurement. Marijuana is a 'secondary' or 'auxiliary' cause of death in a great deal of cases. It's still safer than alcohol, but it's not completely safe.
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Postby Tanner » 2009.04.10 (22:07)

jean-luc wrote:is calling it "drink driving" a british english thing or something?
I think it's more of a QWERTY Englush thing.
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Postby 乳头的早餐谷物 » 2009.04.11 (02:16)

rennaT wrote:
jean-luc wrote:is calling it "drink driving" a british english thing or something?
I think it's more of a QWERTY Englush thing.
At least in Australia, drink driving (hyphenated?) is the standard term.
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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2009.04.13 (00:13)

I've heard both...
"Drunk driving" refers to driving with a BAC that's over the legal limit, and is therefore illegal.
"Drink driving" refers to driving with a BAC > 0 but within the legal limit. It's legal (if it's legal for you to drink to begin with, that is), but frowned upon.
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Postby Skyling » 2009.04.13 (14:41)

Hmph. I just heard a news report on CNN say that (and this is paraphrased as I didn't hear it too well from the other room) the drug trade "takes [large amount of money] out of our pockets each year".
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Postby T3chno » 2009.04.13 (23:50)

Skyline wrote:Hmph. I just heard a news report on CNN say that (and this is paraphrased as I didn't hear it too well from the other room) the drug trade "takes [large amount of money] out of our pockets each year".
link or it didn't happen
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Postby Kool » 2009.04.18 (13:48)

WEED! I can be on this subject all day, but it all comes down to (and idk if someone already said this/too lazy to see), but overall it all comes down to marijuana (bud,pot,weed,dat hash ;D) is illegal cuz the government can't tax it. but they can sure bail out AIG. >:\ nvm wrong thread for that.

anyways weed should be legalized, and thats the bottom line. IMO of course ;)
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Postby Tanner » 2009.04.18 (16:30)

I propose that the solution to AIG's financial problems is the legalization of marijuana.

DISCUSS
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Postby Kool » 2009.04.18 (19:32)

DemonzLunchBreak wrote:
Shwayzee-(Kool-aid) wrote:WEED! I can be on this subject all day, but it all comes down to (and idk if someone already said this/too lazy to see), but overall it all comes down to marijuana (bud,pot,weed,dat hash ;D) is illegal cuz the government can't tax it. but they can sure bail out AIG. >:\ nvm wrong thread for that.

anyways weed should be legalized, and thats the bottom line. IMO of course ;)
What a well thought out post.

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It really wasn't thought out, anyways as i said I can be on this thread all day talking about weed. although I did not, thats why I basically summed up my thoughts on the matter with my last sentence. of course I have different views on the situation as a whole but I wouldn't want to get into it. mhm thats about it.
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Postby Atilla » 2009.04.19 (14:40)

If you can't form coherent sentences, won't read the thread to see if things have already been said, and don't think at all about what you post, stay out of the debate forum. Actually, if you can't do any of those things, refrain from posting altogether.

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Postby Kool » 2009.04.20 (03:43)

Atilla wrote:If you can't form coherent sentences, won't read the thread to see if things have already been said, and don't think at all about what you post, stay out of the debate forum. Actually, if you can't do any of those things, refrain from posting altogether.
First of all; I can form coherent sentences. I'm not a fucking idiot. -_-
Second; I didn't have time when I posted that too read through 5 pages of posts.
Third; I functionally think about all my posts on any subject or situation of any multitude.

I can do all three of those things fine, so get off my back.
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Postby SlappyMcGee » 2009.04.20 (04:18)

overall it all comes down to marijuana (bud,pot,weed,dat hash ;D) is illegal cuz the government can't tax it. but they can sure bail out AIG. >:\ nvm wrong thread for that.
See, Atilla, if you had more posts like this, and less of your color driven maniacal power texts, you'd know what's it's like to be Shawtee, or whatever the fuck his name is. He's a giver, that's the point. The man's opinions are worth their virtual weight in virtual gold. Rep +1.
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Postby Kool » 2009.04.20 (07:22)

SlappyMcGee wrote:
overall it all comes down to marijuana (bud,pot,weed,dat hash ;D) is illegal cuz the government can't tax it. but they can sure bail out AIG. >:\ nvm wrong thread for that.
See, Atilla, if you had more posts like this, and less of your color driven maniacal power texts, you'd know what's it's like to be Shawtee, or whatever the fuck his name is. He's a giver, that's the point. The man's opinions are worth their virtual weight in virtual gold. Rep +1.
Thank you slappy, but I'm not ghetto like you probably assume from my username, I just used to be a stoner, pillpopping drunk for 2 years.
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Postby Atilla » 2009.04.20 (12:06)

I dunno, Slaps. According to all these WoW spambots, you can get gold pretty cheap.

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Postby blue_tetris » 2009.05.09 (03:36)

When did we all become so angry and xenophobic? :/

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The Real N Sex on the Xerox Space Pimp Online Super Fluffy Pack 1! Super Fluffy Pack 2! Super Crunchy Pack! Mother Thumping Impossible: 2005 MotY! Time is on My Side: 2006 PMotY! Survival map king! Best humor award! Best satire award! Best voice award! Inadvertently intimidating! Assholier than thou! Gdubs is totally back! WIS 14! Cyberzone creator! Clique creator! Most lines on IRC! Ventrilo moderator and regular! Certified Dungeon Master! Most modest person ever! ENTP! Incorrigible alcoholic! CHA 19! AMERICAN! Least pretentious! Elitist extraordinaire! Liberal libertarian! Incapable of experiencing love! Check Safe! Commodore of the Eldritch Seas! Archmagus of the Eleventh Hall! Sheriff of the Uncharted West! Godfather of the IRC Mafia! Pun enthusiast! Quadster! Challenging Dunbar's number! Wikipedian!Approves of 4th Edition! 1,000 Blank White Cards! radio_free_tetris! Migratory! INT 18! Doesn't know when he's being genuine, therefore cannot form lasting relationships with people! Really into black chicks! Even more into Indian chicks and Blasians! Hates moderators! Loves the C word! Tronster! Thinks we should play more Worms! Always wins iSketch! Owns a Wii! Plays as Pikachu in Smash Bros! Wrote literotica! Wrote anime fanfic! Sorta into Asians! Lived and loved the 80's and 90's! Chattiest sig! Cyberzone ][ creator! Operand of the Greater Space Pimp Continuum! Helped lead the forum move!Wizard Date! Participated in the blue_tetris takeover! Pithiest one-liners! Walkin' on, walkin' on broken glass! Seems to have an invisible touch! Economist! Mario hackster! Owner of the most complex D&D campaign setting! Micromanagerial! FREEDOM is all-American! Slowly distancing! Supports the Democrats! Supports the old GOP! CATO Institute fanboy! Penn and Teller fan! Large, in charge, and on a barge! Heralded by community as genius hero! Proud yet humble recipient of the Mare & Raigan Award for 2008! CON 9! Dave of Nazareth! Communist is annoyed with me! Not half bad at images! F.Y.I. I am a medic! It's a spook house, lame ball. Too bad! Space Pimp II: Rags 2 Bitches! F.Y.I. I am a spy! Entire team is babbies! STR 10! Sorta appreciating scythe and atob again, for new reasons! Played CS:S briefly! Welcome to Nebraska! Do you think you can Live! Heist! Portrayer of the mighty 88 Shells! Joyous proprietor of the future estate of Kablizzy and blue_tetris! It's Batmen all the way up! They brought crystals to a sceince fight; that's a good way to lose your cat! Even SlappyMcGee! I'm about to run out of either primates or sexually transmitted diseases! One-upper! Toaster oven clairvoyant Mythomaniac! That's the Magic of Macy's! Half of Half! Spend all my time making love, all my love making time!


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