Race Maps, N arts, and DDA's

[blackson]

These maps get overloaded with ratings and undeserving attention, and there's a reason why. People don't have a sufficient understanding of the genre, and thus are overly impressed by it.

For instance, if a race flows, it gets attention. Forget if it's generic, or if it's all already done before, if the ninja gets from point A to B in a flowy manner, it's a real winner. With n-arts, it's all the same. Nobody has the proper experience in order to correctly critique a map, so it's just 5's all around.

DDA's are slightly different. Over the years, the quality of them has gone up. For instance, take a look at this map. The community has certainly acquired a stronger backbone for judging what's a good DDA, and what's not, but I still believe that the amount of effort, and the attention received is un-parallel with those of another genre.

It seems these days that action maps are the only ones that can be truly critiqued. Only action maps are called generic, and only on action maps are constructive criticism given.

Now that I've said all of this, I don't know what I'm trying to say. Just something I've noticed and wanted to share.

O.o

[Radium]

I agree with you.. but this isn't really ever going to get fixed.. the majority of users are either too fucking stupid

[mintnut]

What is it with you and pointless profanity Radium? You come across as a very angry individual, not to mention you constantly get called on it by moderators.

[KlanKaos]

Heh. You did seem kinda pissed, Radium. =)

As for N-arts, I really, really hate them now. They take up so much attention and everyone rates them without thinking. At least maps require thinking and time to make a rate - all and N-art requires is to look at it, so people tend to overrate it hugely.

Races, I don't play often, besides Riobe and Destiny races. I often rate those high, but they're legitimately high - they're good racemakers.

DDAs I have no comment on. Except that some of them very much deserve the attention they get, considering the work put in and the skill they're made with.

[Radium]

What is it with you and pointless profanity Radium? You come across as a very angry individual, not to mention you constantly get called on it by moderators.

Hehe. Your right. I'll cool it.

[Riobe]

I agree with you as far as N-Art's and DDA's go, but I slightly disagree with you on races. Races don't get as much attention as N-Art's or DDA's do, but you know, they are still overrated in most cases though (all by the same author. O.o)

Although, really, what is there to do about it?

[blackson]

I'm not trying to prevent this or anything, I just found it interesting and I put it up for discussion.

[KlanKaos]

@Riobe: Your links disgust me.

Seriously, none of those are worth more than a two.

[Spawn of Yanni]

I still find those categories interesting, and I'm not gonna "NR NR NRNR NR" an N-art because "it's something that could be done in Paint". Effort went into the maps, so they have every right to be rated. That doesn't necessarily apply to the other two, though, but whatever.

Anyway, that's slightly besides the point. I guess the reason why the categories are much more frequently/highly rated than others is because, unfortunately, the large majority of the population prefers not to have to think too hard (pretentious as that may sound). Or maybe that's a bit unfair. It could be because there are a lot more people on NUMA who aren't *crazy* into playing N than those who are.

That is, those are the map categories that you don't really have to think about when rating. Playing an action or a puzzle can take you hours, even days (5080), so those who don't feel, uh, committed to the task, prefer to stay away from such levels. And then on the other hand, you have BAM. DRAGON. I LIKE. 5 NINJAS or WHAPOW. SIT AND WATCH. CLOSE CALL. AWESOME 5 or even the slightly more sophisticated KA-PING. I AM BEING DIRECTED WHERE TO GO OH CHECK IT OUT JUMP LEVEL OVER WOO 5. Obviously, these'll be the ones that get the mainstream attention.

I mean, in the end, NUMA is a *public archive* and we're just a bunch of elitist so-and-sos sitting here in our corner wishing it was catered exactly to our needs. Considering, yeah, we're the community, we're the ones who care, that's entirely fair on some levels. But there's nothing we can do to make everyone else care the same.

In conclusion, blame everyone else, because we are awesome.

[blackson]

Yanni I agree. It always comes down to the communists...

[KlanKaos]

So I've just started getting into races a lot, now, and I've especially started playing noob races and giving a lot of feedback - even if I'm no spectacular racemaker, I know what's good to do in a race. And what Riobe said is true - 95% of noob races are DISGUSTINGLY overrated. If they have any flow at all, boom - auto4'd by half of NUMA. I then come along and people get pissed off at me for rating them a two when I wrote a freaking essay on why exactly I rated it a two. You know why? Other people built up their egos so much that they get unhappy with honest ratings.

People are stupid. This is my conclusion. =)

[yungerkid]

i think all three genres still have a lot of potential, but except for races, they have stagnated because no one is willing to put enough effort in to keep the overall standard improving. i am guilty of that myself. but while the lower ranks of racemakers are being infested with starry-eyed noobs, the upper levels are able to keep improving and keep the genre alive. destiny just a few days ago told me how (and i agree with him) one of his levels he made a while ago and just posted to numa, which was totally 5aved by, like, 6 people, was actually not such a great map overall now that he looks back on it. what i'm saying is that the major racemakers get loaded with a lot of 5aves, but ignore most of them and concentrate on the more meaty critiques. unfortunately, you are right about criticism. the heavier critiques usually come from other major racemakers. but those racemakers know what they're doing enough to give good critique - up to a point. i think da_man is far ahead of the rest of the pack with this. destiny and riobe are concerned mostly with the final product, whereas da_man is more theory oriented. i think that if we are to educate the latest generation of numa-goers to racemaking theory, we must produce a giant racemaking guide covering all aspects of theory.

[sheganican]

i dont know about races or ddas, but if you ask me, you shouldnt be able to rate n-art's at all. how do you judge art fairly anyway? its just a measure of two things: 1. if it looks good and 2. if it looks like it took a lot of time. i think if you're going to submit something that can be considered mostly n-art, you should disable rates. critique is fine, but those cant very well further complicate the popularity levels we've got going on in Numa.

why rates were even installed in the beginning is beyond me. surely they knew this would happen.

[KlanKaos]

i think that if we are to educate the latest generation of numa-goers to racemaking theory, we must produce a giant racemaking guide covering all aspects of theory.

Dude... I've been a major player of races for a long time, and just recently I started making them and, also, going to the noob races and posting relatively lengthy posts about what should be different about them. I mostly hang out in the loopy noob races (you know the type), and I realized I've been writing a ton of the same stuff for every race. So basically, I'd be interested in helping out with a gigantic race guide like you think we need, and even though I'm not a huge race maker, I'd say I'm qualified enough to be able to write fairly well about races.

If you're actually interested in getting something like this going, PM me. I want to do it.

[Yoshimo]

Code: Select all

/BionicCryonic has offered to help with the raceguide
/Do you accept offer?
/ Y/N

[yungerkid]

ok, the point of that post was not to advertise this race guide. it's going slowly in the first place; i was thinking of finishing it alone anyway. the point was that the genre is being revived, and that racemaking theory is still known in all its intricacies.

[KlanKaos]

Bhaha. I knew that =P It was just that it so closely meshed with what I have been thinking for a couple weeks now.

[SkyPanda]

The main issue I have with popular race critique is that non-loopy races are still being deemed 'abstract' and somehow inherently superior. Non-loopy races are no longer automatically abstract. They have been done to death.

The stigma of the curve is now just a barrier to genuine creativity! Be proud of your curves, race mappers!

I'm serious, though.

[Tunco]

overrated in most cases though (all by the same author. O.o)

I mean look at this, it's incredible and has got ratings nearly same as that maps, noobish ones.
This is really a shame, I think.

[the_happy_taco]

i think ur worrying to much about n-arts, theres maybe 2-4 good n-arts in a month, plus fully criticing n-arts was beter back in the old days when everyone was making them and now there rated overextentualy because there rare.

i do agree though that the noob population has grown suprisingly high lately and they rate anything that crosses there path, and everytime we try helping them, they go all egotistical and say they are the best, and then wonder why they arent getting any rates

I do wish, onestly, that ppl would learn what to look for in an n-art, and not completely ignore it, dedication and time is key in n-arts and when artist finish and ppl come around saying its crap beacuse it's an n-art, it breaks our hearts, im only good at n-arts, consepts, and ddas, so theres not much i can change about not making them, but i wish ppl would look deeper in the n-arts then say "o thats cool", i think all my arts arnt amazing and are rated to high, but need to be looked into, like seeing the use of blending, style, creativity, etc.

u know the hotmap map is only at the top, it doesnt mean its the only thing, u can just look at it and move along, hotmap pages are critised by being up to long, just go down a bit and look at the others

[yungerkid]

tunco, the map you linked to is pretty much entirely generic. i think there are too few racemakers currently who are doing innovative things with their flow and atmospheres. we need more quality racemakers who know the scene, know their theory, and are focused on the health of the genre. the rating system, and how people use it, is neither relevant nor a problem. skypanda, are you saying that racemakers should not care about being loopy or not? or are you attacking the standard of what makes a race "abstract"?

[otters~1]

overrated in most cases though (all by the same author. O.o)

I mean look at this, it's incredible and has got ratings nearly same as that maps, noobish ones.
This is really a shame, I think.

He's talking about me and ska. Awwww.

[//Zander]

well...
Races I don't know about... because I don't play them because I can't be bothered.
N-arts, I disagree... what I see is a whole bunch of people who once loved these realising that everyone else, much like they used to, overating n-arts and putting no consideration into it. but NOT everyone does this... I rarely dish out 5's anymore because I don't see things a being perfect. I used to care about ratings, now I don't give a crap.
But what annoys me is people who whine an bitch about this. Is it helping? no. unless you can convince the community, nothing is gonna happen. I actually retired for a reason, because people don't appreciate my talents anymore. there are those who go "wow 55555555555/5". but those who actually have the experience and intelect to give a decent comment and rating all go "NR because n-arts hog the hotmaps" or "NR because I dont rate n-arts" or "I hate N-arts..."
seriously would you prefer a NUMA where everyone just gave you five's and dumb comments, no matter how good your map was? or a NUMA where people acutally gave a thoughtful rating and some constructive comments so you could actually improve?

now my speil on dda's can be summarised as:
I don't think that they are an issue anymore, I rarely see dda's anymore, and I haven't seen any that have been good enough to stay afloat for long periods for ages.

[the_happy_taco]

Kudos to you.

[SkyPanda]

skypanda, are you saying that racemakers should not care about being loopy or not? or are you attacking the standard of what makes a race "abstract"?

yes, and
yes