Do you believe in God(s)?

Debate serious and interesting topics, rant about politics or pop culture, or otherwise converse in essay form about your opinions. The rules of conduct here are a little stricter.
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Postby Atilla » 2008.10.20 (00:16)

That's purely speculation, isn't it? We can't test that scientifically, correct, because we would need an infinite amount of time to test an infinitely large area?
Not if we had an infinite number of scientists!

Anyway. It's based on mathematical limits as they apply to probability. If something has a finite chance of success, the more trials you have, the higher the probability that at least one of them is a success. In other words, if the probability of success is finite, as the number of trials approaches infinity, the likelihood of having at least one success approaches one. In the limiting case, when you actually have an infinite number of trials, the likelihood of having at least one success is one (certain).

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Postby Manifest » 2008.10.20 (03:10)

DemonzLunchBreak wrote:
The only problem I can see with this reasoning is that we have to be completely sure that the universe is infinite in size, which doesn't seem like an easy thing to prove.
I read an article (unfortunately, it was in paper, so I can't link) saying that they've been using microwave data to determine the shape of the universe. The current distribution of microwave data found would be extremely unlikely (though, notably, not impossible) in a finite universe, to the point where there's a 99% chance rounded down of it being infinite.
Now, I can't pretend to understand microwave data reading, as I'm not a trained cosmologist. So my assertion is entirely based on me believing things I read, which is, as any cynic knows, unreliable. That being said, I'll treat it as trustworthy until I have reason to believe otherwise; I'll take it with a grain of salt, but there's no use in reading if one assumes everything you read is false.
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Postby //Zander » 2008.10.20 (08:00)

I believe... God is real...

that is all i have to say on this matter
Last edited by //Zander on 2008.10.21 (03:20), edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jean-luc » 2008.10.21 (03:07)

God does not necessarily have to be noncorporeal (non-physical) - the LDS church (Mormons) believe that God is a physical being, physiologically very similar to us. Jesus is likewise a physical being (they are independent - Mormons do not believe in the godhead being one individual, but the three seperate beings). The only 'ethereal' one is The Holy Ghost (more commonly referred to as The Holy Spirit in other churches), who has no body so that he/she can be omnipresent.
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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2008.10.21 (06:28)

jean-luc wrote:God does not necessarily have to be noncorporeal (non-physical) - the LDS church (Mormons) believe that God is a physical being, physiologically very similar to us. Jesus is likewise a physical being (they are independent - Mormons do not believe in the godhead being one individual, but the three seperate beings). The only 'ethereal' one is The Holy Ghost (more commonly referred to as The Holy Spirit in other churches), who has no body so that he/she can be omnipresent.
"Beaver" refers primarily to two nocturnal, semi-aquatic species of rodent, one native to North America and one to Europe. They are known for building dams, canals, and lodges (homes). They are the second-largest rodent in the world (after the capybara). Their colonies create one or more dams to provide still, deep water to protect against predators, and to float food and building material. The North American population was 60-400 million, but as of 1988, 6-12 million, due to being hunted for fur, for their glands used as medicine and perfume, and because their harvesting of trees and flooding of waterways may interfere with other land uses.
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]
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Postby blue_tetris » 2008.10.21 (10:20)

It's easier to worship a non-omnipotent, non-omniscient, non-omnibenevolent entity because it's really not hard to prove something like that could exist. Dunno if it's as rewarding, though.
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Postby jean-luc » 2008.10.21 (14:44)

Tsukatu wrote:
jean-luc wrote:God does not necessarily have to be noncorporeal (non-physical) - the LDS church (Mormons) believe that God is a physical being, physiologically very similar to us. Jesus is likewise a physical being (they are independent - Mormons do not believe in the godhead being one individual, but the three seperate beings). The only 'ethereal' one is The Holy Ghost (more commonly referred to as The Holy Spirit in other churches), who has no body so that he/she can be omnipresent.
"Beaver" refers primarily to two nocturnal, semi-aquatic species of rodent, one native to North America and one to Europe. They are known for building dams, canals, and lodges (homes). They are the second-largest rodent in the world (after the capybara). Their colonies create one or more dams to provide still, deep water to protect against predators, and to float food and building material. The North American population was 60-400 million, but as of 1988, 6-12 million, due to being hunted for fur, for their glands used as medicine and perfume, and because their harvesting of trees and flooding of waterways may interfere with other land uses.
Perhaps you have missed the context of my statement?
there was an earlier post (on the first page, not too far back) discussing god being omnipresent.
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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2008.10.21 (17:48)

jean-luc wrote:
Tsukatu wrote:
jean-luc wrote:God does not necessarily have to be noncorporeal (non-physical) - the LDS church (Mormons) believe that God is a physical being, physiologically very similar to us. Jesus is likewise a physical being (they are independent - Mormons do not believe in the godhead being one individual, but the three seperate beings). The only 'ethereal' one is The Holy Ghost (more commonly referred to as The Holy Spirit in other churches), who has no body so that he/she can be omnipresent.
"Beaver" refers primarily to two nocturnal, semi-aquatic species of rodent, one native to North America and one to Europe. They are known for building dams, canals, and lodges (homes). They are the second-largest rodent in the world (after the capybara). Their colonies create one or more dams to provide still, deep water to protect against predators, and to float food and building material. The North American population was 60-400 million, but as of 1988, 6-12 million, due to being hunted for fur, for their glands used as medicine and perfume, and because their harvesting of trees and flooding of waterways may interfere with other land uses.
Perhaps you have missed the context of my statement?
there was an earlier post (on the first page, not too far back) discussing god being omnipresent.
Mockery is a composition that imitates or misrepresents somebody's style, usually in a humorous way.
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]
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Postby notsteve » 2008.10.21 (21:06)

Tsukatu is a person that ridicules or mocks somebody's post, usually in a humorous way.
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Postby blue_tetris » 2008.10.22 (04:02)

Stop trolling, please.
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Postby jean-luc » 2008.10.22 (04:06)

Tsukatu wrote:"Beaver" refers primarily to two nocturnal, semi-aquatic species of rodent, one native to North America and one to Europe. They are known for building dams, canals, and lodges (homes). They are the second-largest rodent in the world (after the capybara). Their colonies create one or more dams to provide still, deep water to protect against predators, and to float food and building material. The North American population was 60-400 million, but as of 1988, 6-12 million, due to being hunted for fur, for their glands used as medicine and perfume, and because their harvesting of trees and flooding of waterways may interfere with other land uses.
Perhaps you have missed the context of my statement?
there was an earlier post (on the first page, not too far back) discussing god being omnipresent.[/quote]
Mockery is a composition that imitates or misrepresents somebody's style, usually in a humorous way.[/quote]

I wasn't aware my style was humorous. Actually, scratch that, looking back you wouldn't be the first person to comment on it. I'm not sure what about it people find funny though..?

As a side note, the limitation of 3 nested quotes, while understandable, is annoying.
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Postby otters » 2008.10.22 (17:14)

Manifest wrote:
DemonzLunchBreak wrote:
The only problem I can see with this reasoning is that we have to be completely sure that the universe is infinite in size, which doesn't seem like an easy thing to prove.
I read an article (unfortunately, it was in paper, so I can't link) saying that they've been using microwave data to determine the shape of the universe. The current distribution of microwave data found would be extremely unlikely (though, notably, not impossible) in a finite universe, to the point where there's a 99% chance rounded down of it being infinite.
Those are actually favorable odds in this context.

In any case, please help me to understand - if the universe is 13 billion years old and it has been expanding constantly, how has it reached infinite size? Unless the expansion has been infinitely fast, in which case the explosion would have to be infinitely powerful.
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Postby origami_alligator » 2008.10.22 (17:30)

incluye wrote:
Manifest wrote:
DemonzLunchBreak wrote:
The only problem I can see with this reasoning is that we have to be completely sure that the universe is infinite in size, which doesn't seem like an easy thing to prove.
I read an article (unfortunately, it was in paper, so I can't link) saying that they've been using microwave data to determine the shape of the universe. The current distribution of microwave data found would be extremely unlikely (though, notably, not impossible) in a finite universe, to the point where there's a 99% chance rounded down of it being infinite.
Those are actually favorable odds in this context.

In any case, please help me to understand - if the universe is 13 billion years old and it has been expanding constantly, how has it reached infinite size? Unless the expansion has been infinitely fast, in which case the explosion would have to be infinitely powerful.
Infinite means never-ending. If the universe is constantly expanding that fits the bill for infinite. As far as we know, the universe could be a finite size, but as we have not observed this barrier it seems reasonable to assume there is no finite size to the universe.
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Postby crescor » 2008.10.22 (20:36)

I think God is a word for all the good thoughts, all the kindness, all the righteous things, all the equality, all the friendship,... in the world.
God is just the intention of doing something for someone else without thinking of your own benefits.
God is loving all the people in the world.
God is the forgiveness that you should give to EVERYONE in the world.
God is the help that you offer to the people.
God is that one kind word that you never expected to get from that one person.
God is nothing materialistic.
All good thoughts bundled together is one word, and that one word is God.
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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2008.10.22 (20:51)

incluye wrote:In any case, please help me to understand - if the universe is 13 billion years old and it has been expanding constantly, how has it reached infinite size? Unless the expansion has been infinitely fast, in which case the explosion would have to be infinitely powerful.
My guess is he's talking about matter and light that was sent rocketing in all directions after the Big Bang, and is somehow under the impression that reality exists beyond the point existence has yet extended itself past.
I mean, it could very well be just beyond the expanding universe frontier is empty 3-D space just like we've come to know and love, but we can't say for sure because it's impossible for us to observe it in both practice and theory.
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]
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Postby notsteve » 2008.10.22 (21:17)

couldn't the universe be infinite, but completely empty
when the big bang happened all the matter and energy in the universe was released, and is rapidly expanding

but even if we could get to the edge of the unviverse, it would be expanding so fast that it would be impossible to pass it, making it pratically infinite
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Postby otters » 2008.10.22 (23:09)

southpaw wrote:
incluye wrote:
Manifest wrote:I read an article (unfortunately, it was in paper, so I can't link) saying that they've been using microwave data to determine the shape of the universe. The current distribution of microwave data found would be extremely unlikely (though, notably, not impossible) in a finite universe, to the point where there's a 99% chance rounded down of it being infinite.
Those are actually favorable odds in this context.

In any case, please help me to understand - if the universe is 13 billion years old and it has been expanding constantly, how has it reached infinite size? Unless the expansion has been infinitely fast, in which case the explosion would have to be infinitely powerful.
Infinite means never-ending. If the universe is constantly expanding that fits the bill for infinite. As far as we know, the universe could be a finite size, but as we have not observed this barrier it seems reasonable to assume there is no finite size to the universe.
Hmmm...okay. So beyond the known, existing expanding matter there's emptiness, or what?
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Postby notsteve » 2008.10.22 (23:30)

well for all we know there could be emptiness

or my personal theory is that we are inside a giant snow-globe type thing of an interdimentional being and we are all being watched carefully

and that being is also inside a universe inside a snowglobe, and so on

its amazing!
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Postby yungerkid » 2008.10.24 (23:50)

do you believe in God(s)?

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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2008.10.25 (09:18)

yungerkid wrote:do you believe in God(s)?
That's the question you're supposed to answer, dude.
Don't be coming in to threads that ask a question to the general public just to turn the question back around to... the general public.
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]
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Postby Zora_S_Kenneth » 2008.10.25 (17:18)

Tsukatu wrote:
yungerkid wrote:do you believe in God(s)?
That's the question you're supposed to answer, dude.
Don't be coming in to threads that ask a question to the general public just to turn the question back around to... the general public.
It's not that bad Suki. There's always one missing the point of god being undefined.
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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2008.10.25 (17:53)

Zora_S_Kenneth wrote:
Tsukatu wrote:
yungerkid wrote:do you believe in God(s)?
That's the question you're supposed to answer, dude.
Don't be coming in to threads that ask a question to the general public just to turn the question back around to... the general public.
It's not that bad Suki. There's always one missing the point of god being undefined.
But that's not even what he said. There was no implication whatsoever about his understanding or lackthereof of God; he simply asked the question again.
[spoiler="you know i always joked that it would be scary as hell to run into DMX in a dark ally, but secretly when i say 'DMX' i really mean 'Tsukatu'." -kai]"... and when i say 'scary as hell' i really mean 'tight pink shirt'." -kai[/spoiler][/i]
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Postby yungerkid » 2008.10.25 (18:49)

edit: i apologize. i did not remember the guidelines correctly.
Last edited by yungerkid on 2008.10.26 (02:54), edited 2 times in total.

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Postby DemonzLunchBreak » 2008.10.25 (19:04)

yungerkid wrote:actually, i was reasserting the original topic. the discussion had begun to digress, and i wished to redirect it.
Read the guidelines.

Edit:
Nvm, don't read the guidelines. Just learn to understand what you read. The guidelines say that there's no problem with a thread going off-topic as long as the changes are gradual. If you read the topic here, it flows pretty smoothly. You're interrupting this thread more by trying to get everyone back to the original topic than anyone who posts about what's currently being discussed.

...And I'm interrupting more than anybody.
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Postby Zora_S_Kenneth » 2008.10.25 (21:37)

yungerkid wrote:actually, i was reasserting the original topic. the discussion had begun to digress, and i wished to redirect it.

edit@demonz: i have read the guidelines. i don't think of this as a minor digression from the original topic; the whole topic was changed. we changed from "is there a god" to "how was the universe created", and i think that the knowledge of how the universe was created is not too relevant to the original topic.
Wrong. According to most religious texts, the greatest feat of any god was the creation of the universe. Prove that the universe was created a different way, and the image and possible existence of [the debated] god(s) gets MUCH blurrier.
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