The "Proof" that 2=1

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Postby scythe » 2009.10.19 (22:30)

lord_day wrote:Assertion:
The smallest positive real number is 1.

Proof:
Let r be the smallest positive real number. Either r > 1 or r = 1 or r > 1

If r > 1 then 0 < sqrt(r) < r and r is not the smallest positive real number.
If r < 1 then 0 < r^2 < r and r is not the smallest positive real number.

Therefore r = 1.
That is awesome. I'm remembering this.
Spawn of Yanni wrote: What? If anything, every one of these invalid proofs just shows that maths works. 0! is just a matter of definition.
It's not a matter of arbitrary definition, it's an artifact of the continuation of the factorial function over the reals.
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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2009.10.19 (23:47)

scythe33 wrote:
lord_day wrote:Assertion:
The smallest positive real number is 1.

Proof:
Let r be the smallest positive real number. Either r > 1 or r = 1 or r > 1

If r > 1 then 0 < sqrt(r) < r and r is not the smallest positive real number.
If r < 1 then 0 < r^2 < r and r is not the smallest positive real number.

Therefore r = 1.
That is awesome.
No, it isn't!
What he gave was a proof by contradiction:
  • If r > 1, there's a positive real smaller than r.
  • If r < 1, then there's a positive real smaller than r.
  • (he failed to mention) If r = 1, positive reals smaller than r exist.
The actual conclusion is that there's no such thing as the smallest positive real.

And this proof is even less interesting when you consider that there are many, many other ways of proving that there is no such thing as the smallest positive real, including such stupidly simple proofs like continuously multiplying your next guess by a number between 0 and 1, or by averaging your next best guess with 0.
His conclusion is completely invalid; it's as valid as a proof that says, "Suppose r is both real and imaginary. For every real r < 13, r is not imaginary. For every real r > 13, r is not imaginary. Therefore r = 13 is both real and imaginary." It's not a fucking proof. It's some kind of bizarre win-by-arbitrary-default condition that's implied and never considered for some reason. It's a non-sequitur.
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Postby blue_tetris » 2009.10.20 (00:53)

There are many infinite values and sets. They aren't necessarily equal. Dunno why people think that "infinity" is a number. It ain't. It's a class of values--usually sets--which have no limit.

I agree with Tsukatu on all fronts, and extend the proposition to "You kids don't know dick about numbers, stop frontin'."
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Postby lord_day » 2009.10.20 (12:42)

Tsukatu wrote:No, it isn't!
What he gave was a proof by contradiction.
Well yeah. It was a joke, based on the assumption of the smallest positive integer exisiting - something I didn't justify. But it was a joke and you took it so seriously ;_;
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Postby jinxed_07 » 2009.10.20 (14:14)

Math is one of the strictest things you can discuss or debate about. What did you expect?

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Postby blue_tetris » 2009.10.20 (14:59)

lord_day wrote:
Tsukatu wrote:No, it isn't!
What he gave was a proof by contradiction.
Well yeah. It was a joke, based on the assumption of the smallest positive integer exisiting - something I didn't justify. But it was a joke and you took it so seriously ;_;
Ahh. See, Tsukatu. It had all the obvious signs of being a playful joke, and you didn't get it. You're so simple-minded, Constance Moribund Stephenson Primus8.
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Postby SlappyMcGee » 2009.10.20 (16:25)

If any of these proofs were true, it wouldn't be proof that 2=1, it'd just be proof that a function of mathematics is inaccurate and needs to be fixed.
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Postby t̷s͢uk̕a͡t͜ư » 2009.10.20 (18:02)

blue_tetris wrote:
lord_day wrote:
Tsukatu wrote:No, it isn't!
What he gave was a proof by contradiction.
Well yeah. It was a joke, based on the assumption of the smallest positive integer exisiting - something I didn't justify. But it was a joke and you took it so seriously ;_;
Ahh. See, Tsukatu. It had all the obvious signs of being a playful joke, and you didn't get it. You're so simple-minded, Constance Moribund Stephenson Primus8.
I have an '8' in my last name; how can you reasonably expect me to understand humor?
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Postby Mute Monk » 2009.10.20 (18:08)

Is it entirely possible that this thread has run it's course as a useful/entertaining resource?

Just wondering.
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