Metanet 0ths Thread

[TheRealOne]

Took 57-0, 57-3 and improved 57-1, making Ep57 my first ownage. ^_^

Oh, great 63-2, jp, but why didn't you post it here?

Those runs are great. I think your episode run is in need of improving though, because those run highlight every weakness in the Ep 0th.

jp that run is really clean. I don't know how the jump at the start went totally unthought of in the top runs, so kudos to you for that find. I wonder if that can be combined with kyrX's slide to grab all of the gold in a single fall with out the WJ.

[ska]

Took 57-0, 57-3 and improved 57-1, making Ep57 my first ownage. ^_^

Oh, great 63-2, jp, but why didn't you post it here?

Those runs are great. I think your episode run is in need of improving though, because those run highlight every weakness in the Ep 0th.

jp that run is really clean. I don't know how the jump at the start went totally unthought of in the top runs, so kudos to you for that find. I wonder if that can be combined with kyrX's slide to grab all of the gold in a single fall with out the WJ.

I was going to say... you could take off 3-4+ seconds on your episode run. But I know first-hand how difficult it is to be fast enough to dodge the "drone overlap" on 57-2, let alone get that gold that you missed in that chamber. Out of curiosity, did you make the episode run before or after you took/improved those 0ths? I'm guessing that you took the episode run a while ago based on the N wikia. At any rate, well done on the ownage. You might not know that Mr_Lim himself was also quite famous for his ownage on episode 57 back in the day.

[macrohenry]

you could take off 3-4+ seconds on your episode run.

I think your episode run is in need of improving though, because those run highlight every weakness in the Ep 0th.

I'll just meet your wish because I can't thank you guys often enough for what you say about my runs. ;) 361+ is possible though(my level score total for this episode is 361.925), but I didn't have enough patience.

I'm guessing that you took the episode run a while ago based on the N wikia.

Yeah, between April and August.

EDIT: Took 69-0.

[ska]

Nice 2.5 second improvement... I got that gold piece once, but then I died because I cut it too fine to the drone trying to go for the 0th.

[ska]

you could take off 3-4+ seconds on your episode run.

I think your episode run is in need of improving though, because those run highlight every weakness in the Ep 0th.

I'll just meet your wish because I can't thank you guys often enough for what you say about my runs. ;) 361+ is possible though(my level score total for this episode is 361.925), but I didn't have enough patience.

I'm guessing that you took the episode run a while ago based on the N wikia.

Yeah, between April and August.

EDIT: Took 69-0.

nice 2.5 second improvement.

also, sick 69-0. watching it against Eddy's run was pretty amazing.
Btw, I am very annoyed/impressed with your 27-1 0th that I only just discovered. Annoyed because of how clean I tried to get my run with my strategy. I did try that fall, but never had any success... drone problems IIRC.

[TheRealOne]

you could take off 3-4+ seconds on your episode run.

I think your episode run is in need of improving though, because those run highlight every weakness in the Ep 0th.

I'll just meet your wish because I can't thank you guys often enough for what you say about my runs. ;) 361+ is possible though(my level score total for this episode is 361.925), but I didn't have enough patience.

I'm guessing that you took the episode run a while ago based on the N wikia.

Yeah, between April and August.

EDIT: Took 69-0.

So I can just ask for things like this and they happen? ... Take 69-2 now.

In all seriousness that run is now something quite spectacular. I don't see anyone taking that with out getting the extra gold on -2.

[macrohenry]

Take 69-2 now.

Done. ;) Crappy run, but that was hard and frustrating enough. However, I also took the speedrun 0th.

EDIT: Tied 95-0

[TheRealOne]

Take 69-2 now.

Done. ;) Crappy run, but that was hard and frustrating enough. However, I also took the speedrun 0th.

EDIT: Tied 95-0.

I can't believe how many times you and Lim traded the lead on 69-2 if you watch the demos together. Your start is so much faster than him I can't believe there was that much left to clean just on the top section. That corner jump in the center is key to getting a super fast run. Congrats on the 0th, but I love how there are still a few maps out there like 69-2 and 981-1 where even the 0th run has many mistakes.

[EddyMataGallos]

Great run macro, good job taking that old run down :D And congratulations on your first ownage!

I can't believe how many times you and Lim traded the lead on 69-2 if you watch the demos together. Your start is so much faster than him I can't believe there was that much left to clean just on the top section. That corner jump in the center is key to getting a super fast run. Congrats on the 0th, but I love how there are still a few maps out there like 69-2 and 91-1 where even the 0th run has many mistakes.

91-1? That route is pretty close to maxed (check the drone bottleneck right when going to the top half, you have to wait) :P Not saying thats the best route though, but maybe you meant a different level? Maybe 81-1, which has indeed many mistakes though thats because of the inherent difficulty of the terrain itself.

[TheRealOne]

Great run macro, good job taking that old run down :D And congratulations on your first ownage!

I can't believe how many times you and Lim traded the lead on 69-2 if you watch the demos together. Your start is so much faster than him I can't believe there was that much left to clean just on the top section. That corner jump in the center is key to getting a super fast run. Congrats on the 0th, but I love how there are still a few maps out there like 69-2 and 91-1 where even the 0th run has many mistakes.

91-1? That route is pretty close to maxed (check the drone bottleneck right when going to the top half, you have to wait) :P Not saying thats the best route though, but maybe you meant a different level? Maybe 81-1, which has indeed many mistakes though thats because of the inherent difficulty of the terrain itself.

81-1 is what I mean't. Oops. I think 91-4 is another example. It is not that any of these 0ths aren't incredible because that is not true. They are each the best run that has ever been done by anyone on that map... ever. But I was saying that I find it great that there are still a few maps out there where the current 0th a decade after the game came out still have hesitation and what seem to be human flaws. There are so many where the routes have been perfected and the runs executed so well that there is no room for any hesitation or reaction to what is happening because it is so planned. On 69-2 Macro had to react to the drones, live and in the moment of the run. There aren't too many maps out there where the enemy AI actually plays a role in changing the route/methods. We have designed routes to remove any decision making on the fly. I would go so far as to say these the actual hardest maps in the game. Take a look at 88-4, this map is nearly universally declared the hardest map in the game, but your run certainly doesn't show that. Every single jump is planned, the thwumps are timed, there is nothing out of place. And all I am really saying is I am glad there are still a few maps out there like that.

[ska]

Great run macro, good job taking that old run down :D And congratulations on your first ownage!

I can't believe how many times you and Lim traded the lead on 69-2 if you watch the demos together. Your start is so much faster than him I can't believe there was that much left to clean just on the top section. That corner jump in the center is key to getting a super fast run. Congrats on the 0th, but I love how there are still a few maps out there like 69-2 and 91-1 where even the 0th run has many mistakes.

91-1? That route is pretty close to maxed (check the drone bottleneck right when going to the top half, you have to wait) :P Not saying thats the best route though, but maybe you meant a different level? Maybe 81-1, which has indeed many mistakes though thats because of the inherent difficulty of the terrain itself.

81-1 is what I mean't. Oops. I think 91-4 is another example. It is not that any of these 0ths aren't incredible because that is not true. They are each the best run that has ever been done by anyone on that map... ever. But I was saying that I find it great that there are still a few maps out there where the current 0th a decade after the game came out still have hesitation and what seem to be human flaws. There are so many where the routes have been perfected and the runs executed so well that there is no room for any hesitation or reaction to what is happening because it is so planned. On 69-2 Macro had to react to the drones, live and in the moment of the run. There aren't too many maps out there where the enemy AI actually plays a role in changing the route/methods. We have designed routes to remove any decision making on the fly. I would go so far as to say these the actual hardest maps in the game. Take a look at 88-4, this map is nearly universally declared the hardest map in the game, but your run certainly doesn't show that. Every single jump is planned, the thwumps are timed, there is nothing out of place. And all I am really saying is I am glad there are still a few maps out there like that.

I agree.

It also shows the sheer versatility of macrohenry's skill as a player.

[macrohenry]

I don't think 81-1 has many mistakes. That run is very clean in my eyes and I'm sure it must have taken you a long time, Eddy. What's hard about 69-2 are the seeker drones. You never know where they go and you have to react quickly, but that's what I love about N: Quick thinking about how to escape death(especially with rockets).

Took 80-4 and tied 81-2.

[EddyMataGallos]

81-1 is what I mean't. Oops. I think 91-4 is another example. It is not that any of these 0ths aren't incredible because that is not true. They are each the best run that has ever been done by anyone on that map... ever. But I was saying that I find it great that there are still a few maps out there where the current 0th a decade after the game came out still have hesitation and what seem to be human flaws. There are so many where the routes have been perfected and the runs executed so well that there is no room for any hesitation or reaction to what is happening because it is so planned. On 69-2 Macro had to react to the drones, live and in the moment of the run. There aren't too many maps out there where the enemy AI actually plays a role in changing the route/methods. We have designed routes to remove any decision making on the fly. I would go so far as to say these the actual hardest maps in the game. Take a look at 88-4, this map is nearly universally declared the hardest map in the game, but your run certainly doesn't show that. Every single jump is planned, the thwumps are timed, there is nothing out of place. And all I am really saying is I am glad there are still a few maps out there like that.

That was a damn accurate description of the game's current state.

You are right about 88-4, avoiding the need to improvise during the run makes it way easier. 88-4 and 83-3 were the hardest levels for me to beat when I was beating the game, probably because improvising the route on them /is/ the hard part about them. But years later at the time of taking the levels, the mechanical route makes it comparable to most of the other levels; they aren't necessarily harder than the rest, which might seem simpler at a first sight. In fact 81-1 was more tedious than those two.

Oh btw, nice runs again macro :D

[ska]

I recall johnny_faneca saying back in the day that on certain levels he played, he would get the route so clean and tight, that the first time he actually completed the run, it was refined enough to be a 0th.

[MiBeM]

I recall johnny_faneca saying back in the day that on certain levels he played, he would get the route so clean and tight, that the first time he actually completed the run, it was refined enough to be a 0th.

That occasionally happens to me as well. On levels it's not too common anymore as the previous 0ths are already really clean but almost all of my episode 0ths (which I've been getting pretty consistently lately) have happened on my first time running the episode. It's the way competitive N (and speedrunning games in general) works most of the time - you figure out a route, then just try again and again until you manage to execute it.

[EddyMataGallos]

I recall johnny_faneca saying back in the day that on certain levels he played, he would get the route so clean and tight, that the first time he actually completed the run, it was refined enough to be a 0th.

That occasionally happens to me as well. On levels it's not too common anymore as the previous 0ths are already really clean but almost all of my episode 0ths (which I've been getting pretty consistently lately) have happened on my first time running the episode. It's the way competitive N (and speedrunning games in general) works most of the time - you figure out a route, then just try again and again until you manage to execute it.

Indeed, in fact I have to say, there hasn't been a single time in which my episode 0th run has not been the first completion (first completion in which I was aiming for 0th of course), except for once in which I tied the 0th (haha) and had to do it again. As for levels, it did happen to me sometimes, but barely. Its much harder to do that first try now though, compared to 2005.

Oh by the way, totally off topic, but I'm working on the GUI for N2High, finally. The reason I delayed it so much was basically that it seemed tedious to learn, and I was a lazy ass. The thing is that all GUI-regards seem like a complete new language; and in fact it is, since I'm using wxWidgets, which is basically a shitload of libraries, and the way to program is pretty verbose. But now that I've started it's actually pretty entertaining, and I've already got most of the GUI done. After that I'll have to implement the functions of course, so don't expect the release too soon. I'm trying to make it cross-platform as well, but I'll see, I'd need to implement a native way to download the stuff which is what currently depends on a windows executable.

[TheRealOne]

What's hard about 69-2 are the seeker drones. You never know where they go and you have to react quickly, but that's what I love about N: Quick thinking about how to escape death(especially with rockets).

Exactly. That is my point. I loved that you had to react. There are very few levels where there is any thinking on your feet anymore. All of the routes are so well planned that even enemy AI is accounted for. Granted there are a few where the window is so tight that luck plays a role, but basically you still just try, try again, until you get it.

I don't think 81-1 has many mistakes. That run is very clean in my eyes and I'm sure it must have taken you a long time, Eddy.

It isn't as good of an example as 69-2, but I think this level is so hard to run cleanly because of the tile layout that the Gausses actually play a role other than luck, you have to actively think about them.

Took 80-4 and tied 81-2.

Damn the 80-4 was really clean. Half a second is a very impressive lead there for no major route changes. Eddy's run was pretty good.

[macrohenry]

Took 47-2 with a new route and 12-1 with a smaller innovation. :)

[ska]

Took 47-2 with a new route and 12-1 with a smaller innovation. :)

that 47-2 took some foresight... awesome run! (12-1 was so obvious I almost facepalmed!)

[TheRealOne]

Took 47-2 with a new route and 12-1 with a smaller innovation. :)

that 47-2 took some foresight... awesome run! (12-1 was so obvious I almost facepalmed!)

Foresight indeed. See an unnecessary time waste and capitalize. Well done Macro.

[alsojp27ace]

Took 47-2 with a new route and 12-1 with a smaller innovation. :)

Very nice runs again macro, I'm surprised no-one saw that innov on 12-1 before.
Taken 12-2 with a different starting route, I have a different route for the right half too which I think is quicker but was too much of a pain to do.

[macrohenry]

Took 47-2 with a new route and 12-1 with a smaller innovation. :)

Very nice runs again macro, I'm surprised no-one saw that innov on 12-1 before.
Taken 12-2 with a different starting route, I have a different route for the right half too which I think is quicker but was too much of a pain to do.

Very, very clever once again, jp. You're such a good innovater!

EDIT: Took 12-2, Ep33(ska, there's enough room for improvement, especially on -3) and Ep35.

[alsojp27ace]

Took 47-2 with a new route and 12-1 with a smaller innovation. :)

Very nice runs again macro, I'm surprised no-one saw that innov on 12-1 before.
Taken 12-2 with a different starting route, I have a different route for the right half too which I think is quicker but was too much of a pain to do.

Very, very clever once again, jp. You're such a good innovater!

EDIT: Took 12-2, Ep33(ska, there's enough room for improvement, especially on -3) and Ep35.

Thanks :) I like the change you made on the right side of 12-2, I'll try and show you my route at some point for you to try

[TheRealOne]

Took 47-2 with a new route and 12-1 with a smaller innovation. :)

Very nice runs again macro, I'm surprised no-one saw that innov on 12-1 before.
Taken 12-2 with a different starting route, I have a different route for the right half too which I think is quicker but was too much of a pain to do.

Very, very clever once again, jp. You're such a good innovater!

EDIT: Took 12-2, Ep33(ska, there's enough room for improvement, especially on -3) and Ep35.

Very nice on 12-2, but there is absolutely time left on the way out of the right valley. It will require some luck in getting the left laser to fire low, but from the double jump on is most certainly improvable. I think you can retake JP.

[ska]

Took 47-2 with a new route and 12-1 with a smaller innovation. :)

Very nice runs again macro, I'm surprised no-one saw that innov on 12-1 before.
Taken 12-2 with a different starting route, I have a different route for the right half too which I think is quicker but was too much of a pain to do.

Very, very clever once again, jp. You're such a good innovater!

EDIT: Took 12-2, Ep33(ska, there's enough room for improvement, especially on -3) and Ep35.

Cool. I improved episode 34 in a preemptive strike... but I doubt it will be enough to hold you off.