NedReality?

[veedrac]

[UPDATED >>> updates in sq. brackets]

Hello, welcome, and good day to you all :).
I'm sorry if you don't think it should be in the projects area, but it is here because, being founded upon the belief "NREALITY IS MORE DESERVING THAN ASCII", I think it deserves to be with it's kindred. Well, once it comes into being.

EDITED PRE-NOTE: I [HAVE] started on the main parts of the program [BUT HAVEN'T completed it], I WILL make a new post IF AND WHEN it comes out in even an early alpha release - this is ONLY to get your professional opinions on what matters most.

So - what is it?
Recently I've been working towards starting a project in python to overhaul the unfinished and NReality-incompatible Ned, hence the name NedReality. Unfortunately, I'm not brilliant at python, or even programming in general, and I'[ve] start[ed] school again now (boo) so the project may end up being a no-show. But I've decided anyway, and this is why:

• "...the interface is not designed for ease of use [and it's] not as finished as the rest of N..." said Metanet in editor_manual.txt

• Ned is slow; or at least slower than a python executable (.py/pyw/pyc/pyo); as flash isn't... fast. My python program should hardly slow while adding even hundreds of objects, and while removing pieces (despite slowing exponentially depending on the number of items there are on the board) should still many times faster.

• Ned can't save. Yea. That is a killer difference. Backups are possible with python, as with direct editing of userlevels.txt? If I can be bothered, the file possibilities are humongous! I can tell you now that it shouldn't be too hard to load files off userlevels.txt, since I have to be able to load the default code anyway (the tile and item data).

• Ned lacks user-friendliness and NReality integration. There's so much that could be done, like C+P, NReality Mods, layers, visual clues, and so much more...

I need your opinions. If any of you show interest, I want you to comment. Would you prefer A or B (for example, would you like CPU-hungry backups or would you prefer it to be fast*)? Do you find NReality mod support hard, and thus want me to prioritize that? I have some main questions:
Functionality(My style = power-user-style) or Ease of learning(Ned's style = no re-learning)?
Smaller File (requires python and pygame to be installed already) or A Much Larger File (No Neccecities: just an .exe)?
Can anyone help? Design? Moral support? Cash (j/k)?
Opinions? I don't mind criticism, or compliments at that ;P

[Okay - I have some opinions in. It WILL be an exe, but also a mac and linux version (.exe, .app and awesome respectively xD). It will be a hybrid functionality wise. I'm just too lazy to implement millions of super-integrated options and stuff, but undo, C+P and proper selections should be do-able. I'm not going to prioritize N-Reality mods, because it isn't stable enough yet. This doesn't mean stop talking though - publicity is good :P]

*Hypothetical example - I could just make it optional *duh*

POST-NOTE: See how I mentioned the possibility of it not [...] being any good several times? Take that into account; but hope is always good, no?
POST-NOTE: Just so you know, I'm asking the world because good mapmakers know what environments make good map making environments better than anyone else.

[Also, I have the best sig. ever ^^]

[Yoshimo]

Do not make this a fucking .exe. I will rip your heart out and feed it to a dog if you do.

Anyways, sounds cool enough. I liked how the ned works, but maybe some pull down menus or something, because Nreality has a huge number of added stuffs.

[bhz]

Do not make this a fucking .exe. I will rip your heart out and feed it to a dog if you do.

Anyways, sounds cool enough. I liked how the ned works, but maybe some pull down menus or something, because Nreality has a huge number of added stuffs.

So...what DOES he make it? Not all of us are mac users.....

[Tunco]

Do not make this a fucking .exe. I will rip your heart out and feed it to a dog if you do.

Anyways, sounds cool enough. I liked how the ned works, but maybe some pull down menus or something, because Nreality has a huge number of added stuffs.

So...what DOES he make it?

Bio uses the /damn/ Mac. And .exes don't work with macs.

[bhz]

oh and to answer his questions: as long as it is able to easily add nreality mods its awesome (in a way like modmaster, except you give it the code and program modifies it)

[Yoshimo]

Most computers can run .py and such, correct?

[Superpok]

please no, i tried to get phython to work once to get NHigh, it was not a happy day.

[kkstrong]

1) Make it an .exe, you will lose half your audience with a .py even if all computers can run it.

2) Also, Definately give this program a go. I'm currently working on some mantinence and upgrades for modmaster. And I may try giving this a go, once I am competent in C (my next language). It's been on my agenda for quite some time.

3) Have fun with it.

[Yoshimo]

1) Make it an .exe, you will lose half your audience with a .py even if all computers can run it.

Bastard.

Wait, can you make a .exe and a .py at the same time? That would be neat. Also, opensource or no? I know some people can work magick into it. (not me though)

[veedrac]

I'm not actually meant to be on now so this is a rushed post.
Anyway, if it matters that much it shouldn't be hard to make it both (though compiling to exe doesn't always work, so I might have to stick with py)

Glad to see there is interest, but now it matters if I screw up totally... darn :P

[Yoshimo]

Don't worry. As long as it gets made, I'm happy.

[veedrac]

*snip*Also, opensource or no? I know some people can work magick into it. (not me though)

Heh, probably, it's not like it's a big deal to have it open source. But then again, I am afraid of the result just being a good excuse to laugh at me xD.

Don't worry. As long as it gets made, I'm happy.

That's the problem - people are relying on me...

And four homeworks today: if this continues much expect N 1.5 to be out first :P

Last but not least - I've had to work on the images myself, and they aren't the best quality you could get. If someone could get some images looking better or with better transparency values than the ones in the zipped file here, I would be very grateful. And this isn't all of them, as I have a few more still dotted around.
And yes, these will look terrible scaled or on a different background.

PS: You'll realise the drones all seem to be facing right. This is because I didn't rip them straight off the editor, but after you load it. I don't think it matters, but if someone finds it annoying, you are free to do it yourself. :)

[veedrac]

Well, hello. I've just come to tell you all of my progress for all those who are interested.

I'm now on the part where I have to think about getting it to save and load the level as and from level code (the 101001000010101|9^42,42!7^356,..... sort of thing) so, yes, it is going well. After I have developed that, an options GUI (so you can choose your item to place) and a basic tile editor (just re-use most of my code but for tiles) I should have it in a first version for use if people want to make art on it and don't like Ned's slowness.

Then I can focus on the nifty special bits I wanted it for. I'm sorry this wasn't much of a post, but it's the best I have for now ^^

EDIT: In case anyone wants to know just HOW fast this is, I've uploaded the speed test screen shot. Enjoy!

[Yoshimo]

Whoa. That's... Really fast. I look forward to the completion of this.

[ChaoStar]

two things. Make it mac friendly, and don't kill off the classic number-letter method of items and tiles.

[Tunco]

two things. Make it mac friendly, and don't kill off the classic number-letter method of items and tiles.

Also Linux, original game works on Windows, Mac and Linux.

[veedrac]

two things. Make it mac friendly, and don't kill off the classic number-letter method of items and tiles.

Okay, mac friendly. I'm going to release the python version which is easily compatible with Mac, and I'm going to use py2app on it to mac it a mac executable.

But there are problems. I don't have a mac. This will mean that the .app version will have to be reallllyyyy slowly tested by a release - feedback - release - feedback approach in the case it goes wrong. And there are benefits of the .app version over the .py - at least on windows. If you make it an executable on windows, you can open stuff with it like you open stuff with notepad or paint... but the py file just makes an error and it all goes wrong. This means that you will have to indirectly load all your files - acceptable and just as good as the original N - but the .exe way is easier.

Second thing. "number-letter method of items and tiles"? Huh, what do you mean by that?

two things. Make it mac friendly, and don't kill off the classic number-letter method of items and tiles.

Also Linux, original game works on Windows, Mac and Linux.

Linux is easy, plus I can test it. You don't even need to compile in Linux really to make it an 'executable'; but it will need python to be installed. Don't worry - I won't dis the Linux. ^^

PS: 'Work' on Linux? You can hardly say flash 'works' on Linux. No, the damn Adobe can't even get sound to work on Linux. Grrrr! Hear that? GRRRRR!!! :P

[EdoI]

Veedrac... came out of nowhere and became a legend...

[veedrac]

I come bearing... bad news.

Story:
There I was programming along, nicely and happily, and I went onto the forum to check if there were any comments... The forum was down? So next day I went on again, but to no avail. It was still down. After a while (a few weeks-ish) I gave up, and having no guarantee I would be able to release this (along with my tiring of NGame [sorry]) I stopped working on the program. Meanwhile (and quite a while later), I was messing with my Linux partition to see if I could get the wireless to work on the new 9.10... it did! So I was about to install it but broke my Window$ partition in the meantime. Not good.

So here I am: No windows, No remaining source (it all died in 'the crash') and No NGame drive ('BATTLE FOR WESNOTH' FTW!).
If I get enough people asking, I will start again, but you will miss some functions:

No .exe file: Some functions just can't work then.
No windows testing.
Longer wait: I'm working on other homegrown projects and I've got to rebuild the original from scratch (though it will let me clean up some of the original mess I put in ;p)

SO!: If you want me to restart - be warned, you won't get the same quality. If you were looking forward to this I've just ruined your hopes. At least the forum is back up ;).

I hope I haven't rambled.

[EdoI]

I come bearing... bad news.

Story:
There I was programming along, nicely and happily, and I went onto the forum to check if there were any comments... The forum was down? So next day I went on again, but to no avail. It was still down. After a while (a few weeks-ish) I gave up, and having no guarantee I would be able to release this (along with my tiring of NGame [sorry]) I stopped working on the program. Meanwhile (and quite a while later), I was messing with my Linux partition to see if I could get the wireless to work on the new 9.10... it did! So I was about to install it but broke my Window$ partition in the meantime. Not good.

So here I am: No windows, No remaining source (it all died in 'the crash') and No NGame drive ('BATTLE FOR WESNOTH' FTW!).
If I get enough people asking, I will start again, but you will miss some functions:

No .exe file: Some functions just can't work then.
No windows testing.
Longer wait: I'm working on other homegrown projects and I've got to rebuild the original from scratch (though it will let me clean up some of the original mess I put in ;p)

SO!: If you want me to restart - be warned, you won't get the same quality. If you were looking forward to this I've just ruined your hopes. At least the forum is back up ;).

I hope I haven't rambled.

Oh shit.
I'm sure the whole community would like to see NedReality finished one way or another (I'm the first one!), so finish it anyway. If you have enough spare time, of course.

And it's my very first quote to get sigged - yay! :D

Edit: If you can't test the file on Windows, just hand the file to some of us. I could test it on both Windows 7 and xp.

[Yoshimo]

veedrac is a beast at everything.

On a more... Topic related note, I've already made a cool script for circle pathing basic objects, so you can use tat as a base for that component.

http://forum.droni.es/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=4102

[veedrac]

OH GOD

Really nice - there's no Linux version of NReality...
PAH. Time to try Wine (Windows Emulator btw).

veedrac is a beast at everything.

On a more... Topic related note, I've already made a cool script for circle pathing basic objects, so you can use tat as a base for that component.

http://forum.droni.es/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=4102

Is this a movement thing or summn'? From what I've worked out from glancing at the output it... well... moves stuff in a circle(trying to go from memory here - been a while since I've played NR)? UPDATE: Eh? How'd you use it - it just makes a little blurry thing in the bottom corner. Maybe I'm giving it the wrong input.

Anyhow; something this complicated will not be able to be implemented until a lot later. Maybe it would be a good idea to make an extensions feature (probably quite simple actually) so you can implement it (once of course I've made it... LOL to far-sightedness).

SUP3HUPD@T3: Oh... your examples prove that it's my fault - I don' know how to use it xD BUT it seems totally unneeded aside from very specific times, so I'm going to push it away for the mo. I appreciate the input though. YOU LOT SHOULD BE MORE LIKE HIM. REMEMBER THAT.

/NR finished downloading/

Brill - despite having an aproximate 0.5fps rate, it'll be more than enough for simple tests (and the original does have a Linux version if I need it ^^).

Oh shit.
I'm sure the whole community would like to see NedReality finished one way or another (I'm the first one!), so finish it anyway. If you have enough spare time, of course.

And it's my very first quote to get sigged - yay! :D

Edit: If you can't test the file on Windows, just hand the file to some of us. I could test it on both Windows 7 and xp.

1: I will try, since it seems wanted (remember that I hand-taught myself everything and the most complex programming I've ever done at my school is HTML... through DreamWeaver [not acually true - I'm pretty mean at Excel]) but it may not work out. I said the original one would be unlikely to succeed; this has less chance.

2: I'm actually more happy about it, I bet. ;p.

3: The problem isn't compatibility, all mainstream OSs run python - the problem is

please no, i tried to get phython to work once to get NHigh, it was not a happy day.

and

...Make it an .exe, you will lose half your audience with a .py even if all computers can run it.

and that executables are... rather necessary to do certain things in *ihatecough* Windows *cough* .

Again, sorry if I rambled (and [overused {parentheses(^^)}]).

[EdoI]

3: The problem isn't compatibility, all mainstream OSs run python - the problem is

please no, i tried to get phython to work once to get NHigh, it was not a happy day.

and

...Make it an .exe, you will lose half your audience with a .py even if all computers can run it.

and that executables are... rather necessary to do certain things in *ihatecough* Windows *cough* .

Get Py2exe, it can make executables. They're large and the plug-in also generates some other files needed for the .exe to work though, but you should definitely try it.

[heatwave]

NedReality sounds amazing. I really hope this makes it.
It will only be able to load and edit levels, not play them, right?

Here's what I'm looking for:
• Mac support
• .txt saving/loading (but I don't care for userlevels.txt saving, as I have my own sorting method)
• Better player/object mod support (i.e. they don't disappear from the level data when you load them)*
• same controls as the original Ned

*more thoughts on that later.

[veedrac]

Get Py2exe, it can make executables. They're large and the plug-in also generates some other files needed for the .exe to work though, but you should definitely try it.

Urgh, how am I failing at explaining myself so badly?
I was using py2exe.
Now I don't have Windows
Now I can't test py2exe compatibility or the resulting exe.
I'm not even sure if py2exe has a Linux version (heck, I'll check now then ^^)
Some features need workarounds on Windows, especially if (and sometimes requiring) you're using py2exe.

I don't mean to sound harsh, just clear.

NedReality sounds amazing. I really hope this makes it.
Thnx

It will only be able to load and edit levels, not play them, right?
100% correct.

Here's what I'm looking for:
• Mac support
Very possible, even if it is only a .py file (Macs can run that too)

• .txt saving/loading (but I don't care for userlevels.txt saving, as I have my own sorting method)
Here's he thing - I don't want to load .txt files, that's Notepad's job. Instead you can load ANY file with the correct plaintext and it'll work OR you could double-click .ned files to AUTOMAGICALLY open in NedReality (I really need an acronym ;P). Plus, there should be support for dragging a file onto the short-cut to do the same thing.

• Better player/object mod support (i.e. they don't disappear from the level data when you load them)*
C'mon. Why on earth would I name something NedReality and not give it NReality capabilities? WHY? That was the WHOLE POINT. xD. (Again, I don't mean to be offensive if the CAPS makes it seem so ^^)

• same controls as the original Ned
No. No. No.
Ned has a terrible UI [UNusable interface]. I want a good one. I laugh at your proposal. However there will be some similarities where the UI is fine (I believe in the Blender principle of one hand on the keyboard, one on the mouse).

*more thoughts on that later.

Soo... yeah.
BTW, I'm still at 0; I've been doing other stuff. I still don't have python well integrated into Linux. G'DD'MN'T.
*yawn*